I Am Done With Church

[Rollo Tamasi]

Okay, back to this.
It's the answer for what?

If someone is done with church, here's the solution.
It's my old church before I moved away.
I still have friends and keep in touch.
And this is their newest ministry.
Read what it's all about and you'll see it's the solution.
I know these people.
I was a member for 11 years.
They are for real.
Yes, the real deal.

 

[Jim Parker]

It's the ineffective, unBiblical model we have adopted for conducting the meeting

The liturgy (RC: "Mass") is the form of the meeting of the original church. While it is not be described in the Bible, Justin Martyr ascribes it to Jesus' instruction.

That the early church had a fully developed liturgy by the second century is attested to by the statements of Justin Martyr.

Justin Martyr: (AD 100-165) The First Apology of Justin
Chapter LXVII.—Weekly Worship of the Christians.

…… (1) And on the day called Sunday, all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and
(2) the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits;
(Interestingly, at this time, the Gospels were referred to as "memoirs of the apostles.")
(3) then, when the reader has ceased, the president1 verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things.
(4) Then we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended,
(5) bread and wine and water are brought, and the president1 in like manner offers prayers and thanksgivings, according to his ability, and
(6) the people assent, saying Amen;
(7) and there is a distribution to each, and a participation of that over which thanks have been given, (the Eucharist) and to those who are absent a portion is sent by the deacons………….


(1) Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Savior on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples,

(8) He (Jesus) taught them (the apostles & disciples) these things, which we have submitted to you also for your consideration.

Justin described a gathering
(a) of the entire local church,
(b) at a place which would accommodate them,
(c) on Sunday.

He then described the process of the meeting which are easily identified as:

A. the Liturgy of the word
(1) The reading of the Gospels or Prophets
(2) The sermon
(3) The prayers of the people

B. The Liturgy of the Eucharist
(4) The consecration of the bread and wine (by the presider, AKA: "priest")
(5) The “great Amen”
(6) The people receive the Eucharist

The source of this form of liturgy: Justin stated that it was Jesus who taught this form of worship. Thus, Justin, in the early 2nd century, refuted the far future notion that the Liturgy/Mass was a later development.

What Justin describes is the basic format of the liturgy which is followed to this day in all Orthodox, Roman Catholic, Lutheran, Anglican, Coptic and Assyrian Churches.

((The “president” refers to the presiding presbyter or the overseer. The word “presbyter” or “elder” (presbuteros) has come down to us in modern English as “priest” and the word overseer (episcopos) has come down to us in English as “bishop.”))

mazel tov

iakov the fool

 

[Jim Parker]

Okay, here's the answer.

http://www.awakeamerica365.com/

Yeah. Been there. Done that. It was good.
It's the Toronto Blessing of the 1990's
It's Azuza street of 1906
It's the Great Awakening of the 1730's.
It's a Holy Ghost, periodically administered, jump start for people whose Christianity has gone dry.

While the experience of the power of God and the joy of His presence is wonderful, this kind of revival regularly fails to emphasize is the importance daily prayer, daily scripture reading, fasting, acts of mercy, and Eucharist. And I have seen this joyful and exciting experience turn into dead ritual in Pentecostal churches where the dancing and singing etc. continue but the Spirit had left the building years earlier.

It's a wonderful and blessed experience and it's jump start; it's not what will sustain faith for the long haul when the Japanese invade and occupy while your husband's in a POW camp (my in-law's experience) or the communists throw you in a cell and torture you every day or the Muslims behead your 12-year-old daughter on her way to school or when you watch your wife's eyes go fixed and dilated after fighting cancer and suffering in pain for two years.

Consider Paul's experience:
From the Jews five times I received forty stripes minus one. Three times I was beaten with rods; once I was stoned; three times I was shipwrecked; a night and a day I have been in the deep; in journeys often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils of my own countrymen, in perils of the Gentiles, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren; in weariness and toil, in sleeplessness often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and nakedness—besides the other things, what comes upon me daily: my deep concern for all the churches. (2Co 11:24-28)

What your link shows is a great time of refreshing. Enjoy it.

Our day-by-day walk will require a lot of quiet, humble, prayer.


mazel tov!

iakov the fool

 

[Jim Parker]

How sad that by Justin's time Paul's instructions for the meeting of the saints had been replaced by mechanical religion.

sigh

How sad that you would assume that your personal experience is more valid than that of the early church.
How sad that you think the instructions from Jesus relayed to Justin represent "mechanical religion."
How sad that you think your personal tastes in religion are more valid than what Justin received from the teaching of the apostles.
How sad that people cling to their modern traditions while reviling those of the primitive apostolic church.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Yeah. Been there. Done that. It was good.
It's the Toronto Blessing of the 1990's
It's Azuza street of 1906
It's the Great Awakening of the 1730's.
It's a Holy Ghost, periodically administered, jump start for people whose Christianity has gone dry.

While the experience of the power of God and the joy of His presence is wonderful, this kind of revival regularly fails to emphasize is the importance daily prayer, daily scripture reading, fasting, acts of mercy, and Eucharist. And I have seen this joyful and exciting experience turn into dead ritual in Pentecostal churches where the dancing and singing etc. continue but the Spirit had left the building years earlier.

It's a wonderful and blessed experience and it's jump start; it's not what will sustain faith for the long haul when the Japanese invade and occupy while your husband's in a POW camp (my in-law's experience) or the communists throw you in a cell and torture you every day or the Muslims behead your 12-year-old daughter on her way to school or when you watch your wife's eyes go fixed and dilated after fighting cancer and suffering in pain for two years.

Consider Paul's experience:
From the Jews five times I received forty stripes minus one. Three times I was beaten with rods; once I was stoned; three times I was shipwrecked; a night and a day I have been in the deep; in journeys often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils of my own countrymen, in perils of the Gentiles, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren; in weariness and toil, in sleeplessness often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and nakedness—besides the other things, what comes upon me daily: my deep concern for all the churches. (2Co 11:24-28)

What your link shows is a great time of refreshing. Enjoy it.

Our day-by-day walk will require a lot of quiet, humble, prayer.


mazel tov!

iakov the fool

I find it very sad that this wonderful thing going on in this church is met with resistance by you.
You are part of the roadblock they face to revivng people and bringing them to the Lord.
What they are doing is meant for people like you.

 

[Mike S]

Who on this board goes to church each and every Sunday and Bible study ?

I do. Worship service every Sunday morning, Bible study Sunday morning and Wednesday evening.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

I do. Worship service every Sunday morning, Bible study Sunday morning and Wednesday evening.

I go too.
Sunday morning for Bible study and then regular service.
Then again Sunday evening.
Then Tuesday morning for men's prayer group.
Then Wednesday evening for service.
Several times a month we have various evening activities that I sometimes attend.
Then once a week my wife and I go to the nursing home ministry.
We are always blessed more than they are.
My wife serves at the Tuesday soup kitchen and the Thursday full hot meal.
And she tries to get out once a week with at least one other woman to witness in the streets of our town.
Our lives would be void without our church.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

sigh

How sad that you would assume that your personal experience is more valid than that of the early church.
How sad that you think the instructions from Jesus relayed to Justin represent "mechanical religion."
How sad that you think your personal tastes in religion are more valid than what Justin received from the teaching of the apostles.
How sad that people cling to their modern traditions while reviling those of the primitive apostolic church.

No thanks. Like I said, been there done that. This is cold dead 'religion', in every bad connotation of the word. The Spirit does not inhabit this. It's a check mark on a 'gotta go to church' score card for people who don't know better. I'm going with Paul's guidance for a meeting of the saints over Justin's. I've done both and I know which one ministers to the body and which one does not.

 

[Mike S]

I go too.
Sunday morning for Bible study and then regular service.
Then again Sunday evening.
Then Tuesday morning for men's prayer group.
Then Wednesday evening for service.
Several times a month we have various evening activities that I sometimes attend.
Then once a week my wife and I go to the nursing home ministry.
We are always blessed more than they are.
My wife serves at the Tuesday soup kitchen and the Thursday full hot meal.
And she tries to get out once a week with at least one other woman to witness in the streets of our town.
Our lives would be void without our church.

We do a nursing home ministry too, Rollo.

Keep up your good ministries.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

It's good to mention nursing home ministries.
It sounds like a bunch of very old people who are to sick to move or respond and it may sound like a waste of time.
But it's not.
These people look forward to us coming every week, it is the highlight of the week.
And for the staff too.
Sometimes the staff will get up and lead a song for us all.
There is one lady who sits in a wheel chair (she is said to be between 103-106).
Her eyes are shut and no body movement.
And then without notice, she will sing along with us and clap her hands, her eyes still shut.
There is no greater joy than to see how we touch her life and the lives of others.
I'm sure going to a nursing home ministry anywhere will be a great experience for anyone seeking to serve God by loving others.

 

[Mike S]

Rollo, I Iove what you say about nursing home ministries. We find the same thing.

There are among our nursing home group a bunch of WWII vets, now getting well up in age. We invite them to our regular church worship service around Veteran's Day. These guys just want a chance to tell their stories, and they get a lot of support from our young people.

 

[Jim Parker]

I find it very sad that this wonderful thing going on in this church is met with resistance by you.

I not resisting at all. I think it's great. We need it periodically But it will not sustain the church.

You are part of the roadblock they face to revivng people and bringing them to the Lord.

Nonsense. I totally approve of this kind of revival. Did you read my post or just decide you knew what it said without reading it?

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

I not resisting at all. I think it's great. We need it periodically But it will not sustain the church.



Nonsense. I totally approve of this kind of revival. Did you read my post or just decide you knew what it said without reading it?

You make it sound like it's not worth looking into.
Yet you know nothing about it.
But you claim you do.

You may mean well but it doesn't sound that way.

 

[Jim Parker]

Yet you know nothing about it.
But you claim you do.

Why do you think this is unique? It may be a slightly different flavor but it's all been done before. God does this every now and then to wake us up.

iakov the fool

 

[Blake]

It's good to mention nursing home ministries.
It sounds like a bunch of very old people who are to sick to move or respond and it may sound like a waste of time.
But it's not.
These people look forward to us coming every week, it is the highlight of the week.
And for the staff too.
Sometimes the staff will get up and lead a song for us all.
There is one lady who sits in a wheel chair (she is said to be between 103-106).
Her eyes are shut and no body movement.
And then without notice, she will sing along with us and clap her hands, her eyes still shut.
There is no greater joy than to see how we touch her life and the lives of others.
I'm sure going to a nursing home ministry anywhere will be a great experience for anyone seeking to serve God by loving others.

While we on these forums so often get caught up on doctrine and theology squabbles, I'm glad to see a mention of real Christianity being practiced. This is what Jesus called "religion."

 

[ezra]

Who on this board goes to church each and every Sunday and Bible study ?

i do there is a occasional wed p.m bible study we dont go. but we attend church when the doors of our local assembly is open. when we dont attend local we go visit

 

[Jim Parker]

Who on this board goes to church each and every Sunday and Bible study ?

I do.

 

[ezra]

a former pastor once said if your looking for a perfect Church and find it. it won,t be perfect very long.because your (we ) are there . we talk about the church we are the Church . yes there is problems in every church ,it take lots of prayer and dedication and following the leader ship of the holy spirit . how many of us are in it for the long Haul .. to many are short haul drivers...

 

[ezra]

Wouldn't it be great to get back to what the Early Church walked in?

As long as false teachers keep the people of God, blinded with such nonsense as:

• The baptism of the Holy Spirit was just for the Apostles.
• There are no more apostles and Prophets
• We are baptized in the Holy Spirit when we are baptized in water.
• Healing and miracles are of the devil.
• Tongues are of the devil.

we have the same spirit the same anointing they had. the problem is US .YOUR 5 TOPICS LISTED is controversial in some Churches . Tongues healing miracles are not of the devil ..the body of Christ is a very complex body . were not all going to agree on the same thing.. our unity comes through Christ not denom..

 

[Obadiah]

Who on this board goes to church each and every Sunday and Bible study ?

I did, and for many years I did not miss or even be late for one single Sunday morning worship service (Of course, I admit that since I had a paid job to perform it gave me more incentive as it is the "professional" way to behave, but I never even took so much as one day off or one vacation of any kind in almost 7 years.) as well as attending some Bible studies (when the subject was something i could learn from) and many other activities. But alas, it's now been over a year since I've attended regularly anywhere, and longer than I care to admit since I've attended at all. This is not a good thing, and I'm not offering it as any kind of good example. If there were a church in my small town that I could relate to, I would be attending regularly.