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I am not moved.....

WMD said:
Thanks for that link... those lyrics are very true to what I am describing. I am going to print them out to keep in my Bible.
Glad you liked them. It's comforting in a way, to know other believers share similar feelings.

Here's two more; the first one being like Chris Rice's song and the second one is where we need to be in our walk.

http://www.christianlyricsonline.com/ar ... w-you.html

http://www.christianlyricsonline.com/ar ... peace.html

Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.


Then this is always my favorite; It is Well (with my soul) :angel:
 
mutzrein said:
Interesting thread.

WMD - May I ask, what moved you to believe this?

nothing moved me to believe this....

I believe the Bible is true for two main reason.
1. The evidence that shows the documents and manuscripts we have today are very cloes the the orgionals.
2. The Bible has been found to be factual when it comes to areas we can confirm through archeology and other secular documents. So why wouldn't it be true in other areas as well?

I believe that Jesus is the saviour sent by God for one main reason.
1. The Bible Says so

I believe these things for many other reasons as well, which can't be all listed here at once. These are just a few of the reasons. In fact whole volumes of books have been written on the subject.
 
WMD said:
I believe the Bible is true for two main reason.
1. The evidence that shows the documents and manuscripts we have today are very cloes the the orgionals.
I am not sure why this should be related to truth. For example, if I had a perfect copy of the Illiad, does that mean that the story the Illiad says is true?

2. The Bible has been found to be factual when it comes to areas we can confirm through archeology and other secular documents. So why wouldn't it be true in other areas as well?
Some of it has been shown to be true. Some has been found to be false. Archelology and historical study paints a different picture than the Bible portrays. For example, Yahweh was just one god among many and he had a wife. The census of the New Testament was made up to try to fulfil a prophecy. Egyptian history does not support the Hebrew history.

From a secular view the Bible is as truthful as the Illiad, Quran or the Vedas.
 
Quath said:
Some of it has been shown to be true. Some has been found to be false. Archelology and historical study paints a different picture than the Bible portrays. For example, Yahweh was just one god among many and he had a wife. The census of the New Testament was made up to try to fulfil a prophecy. Egyptian history does not support the Hebrew history.

From a secular view the Bible is as truthful as the Illiad, Quran or the Vedas.

What?


Prove it. :-?

Do you really think you can? Are you more clever than Satan who has been trying to disprove the Resurection for 2000 years?
Did the apostles die these awful marters death for a lie?

If the bible were proven to be false, do you really believe it would have survived all this time?

FYI if it was a lie, then Christianity would not have survived.

I thought you were smarter than that Quath
:roll:
 
jgredline said:
Prove it. :-?
Which part?

Do you really think you can? Are you more clever than Satan who has been trying to disprove the Resurection for 2000 years?
I would hope I can outperform a non-existant being. :)

Did the apostles die these awful marters death for a lie?
I believe they did.

If the bible were proven to be false, do you really believe it would have survived all this time?
Yes. The Vedas has been around longer and that doesn't mean it is true. The Quran shows no sign of being dismissed as false even though most of us here can clearly see it is. It is hard for people to objectively look at their own holy book.

FYI if it was a lie, then Christianity would not have survived.
Just like Hinduism, Buddhism, and other old religions? A religion being old doesn't mean it is true.

I thought you were smarter than that Quath
:)
 
Quath stay on the topic. If you wanna debate we have aneough forums for that. If you continue to hijack this thread then I must take action here.
 
WMD said:
nothing moved me to believe this....

I believe the Bible is true for two main reason.
1. The evidence that shows the documents and manuscripts we have today are very cloes the the orgionals.
2. The Bible has been found to be factual when it comes to areas we can confirm through archeology and other secular documents. So why wouldn't it be true in other areas as well?

I believe that Jesus is the saviour sent by God for one main reason.
1. The Bible Says so

I believe these things for many other reasons as well, which can't be all listed here at once. These are just a few of the reasons. In fact whole volumes of books have been written on the subject.

And I accept that you 'believe' these things but is your belief born of the intellect or is it of faith?
 
WMD said:
I try not to compare myself directly to other people, and I know that everyone will have their own unique journeys when it comes to faith, but I can't help but think that there is more.... I am not sure what you mean by "what portions of religion interest me".. I am Christian, but I do not consider myself any specific denomination. I have been attending my brothers church the past couple of weeks, I am not sure there specific denomination... I will look up the website and post it here.

As far as the books go Donald Miller is a great writer out of Portland OR. His books have been considered a little edgy for the traditional fundamentalist christian, but I have found the books particularly good. I would suggest "Searching For God Knows What" although "Blue Like Jazz" is pretty good, I am about half way through that one.

I am sure you have heard of Lee Strobel... Case For series of apologetic books are very good.

You can suggest any books that you like to read... I love feeding the mind and am always looking for a good book to read.

WMD,
Thanks for your reply.
Actually, I havn't heard of any of the authors that you've posted. Currently, I'm backed up about 2 books deep right now, but "Searching for God Knows What" sounds like an interesting read.

As far as my comment, "what portions of religion interest me", I guess I should have worded that differently. Sorry :oops: Christianity is so big and there are so many different areas that we can study as we try to bring it all together. Some people like the historical part, some like end times, some like the OT, some like this while others like that.

Personally, I really enjoy the Lords supper and I like to read a lot about it. I think that I enjoy it because it's a time to remember the agony that Christ went through on the Cross but then celebrate it's purpose because Christ has risin and is alive today.

John Mark Hicks is a fantastic author and put a book out called Revisioning the Lords Supper. It really pulled the Lords Supper together for me. Some would view it as very contriversial because Mr. Hicks is considered somewhat of a free thinker and really challenges tradition (both in the church of Christ, Baptist church, Orthodox and Roman Catholic). He actually goes as far as to say (which I agree with) that women should be able to serve communion and gives a very good response as to why. It's pretty cool :wink:
I've got another book (waiting to be read, I've only had a chance to peek at it) by Mr. Hicks called Down to the River to pray. He discusses baptism in great detail in that book and I can't wait to read it.
What I really like about Mr. Hicks is that he is so well balanced and brings so many points of view into the equation and he lets you make up your own mind while giving you so many other views in such an easy to read, comprehensive manner.

Another book that I really enjoyed was called "Men of the Promise". I cant' remember the author. It's a cross section of all the Men in the OT and how the Promise given to Abram effected them.

Anyway, this is long enough.

Have a great day!
 
WMD, being filled with the Holy Spirit simply means to be more under the control of the Holy Spirit. This comes from simple obedience and staying in God's Word. As Alistair Begg likes to say, there's no magic in it.

...believers are commanded to be filled with the Spirit (Ephesians 5:18 ). The grammatical construction of that passage indicates believers are to be continuously being filled with the Spirit. Those who would be filled with the Spirit must first empty themselves. That involves confession of sin and dying to selfishness and self will. To be filled with the Holy Spirit is to consciously practice the presence of the Lord Jesus Christ and to have a mind saturated with the Word of God. Colossians 3:16-25 delineates the results of "letting the word of Christ richly dwell" in us. They are the same ones that result from the filling of the Spirit (Ephesians 5:19-33). As believers yield the moment by moment decisions of life to His control, they "walk by the Spirit" (Galatians 5:16). The baptism of the Spirit grants the power that the filling with the Spirit unleashes." (Macarthur)

A side note: A proper understanding of being "filled" is not to think as a glass being filled with water, being "filled" actually means to be more under the control of the Holy Spirit. We are given the HS without measure (John 3:34), and when we are born again we are complete in Him, lacking nothing (Colossians 2:9-12, 2 Peter 1:3-4.)


Unfortunately, in some churches there is an atmosphere of competition because everyone is trying to prove they are more spiritual than the next person. I hope you can spot that when you see it.

Anyways, when I first became saved there was one bit of information that was given to me that has proven itself to be very true. The Holy Spirit working in your life is generally not felt or even seen as it's happening, only years down the road, when looking back, can all His gradual and mostly unseen work, like your sanctification, be seen in the context of the big picture. In other words, the Holy Spirit working in your life is generally only noticed in hine sight, it's very gradual small steps.

During our peeks we are to be sober minded, like Spurgeon once said, be humble, or be humbled.

In our valleys we still have a peace that surpasses all understanding.

If you look at the people in scripture you will see that by todays standards, they would not be considered to be surfing the Holy ghost wave, or blessed with Holy Ghost goose bumps either. Spiritual maturity comes in very plain packages.

Peace
 
WMD,

Welcome to the board, WMD.

Psalm 42

1 As the hart panteth after the water brooks, so panteth my soul after thee, O God.
2 My soul thirsteth for God, for the living God: when shall I come and appear before God?
3 My tears have been my meat day and night, while they continually say unto me, Where is thy God?
4 When I remember these things, I pour out my soul in me: for I had gone with the multitude, I went with them to the house of God, with the voice of joy and praise, with a multitude that kept holyday.
5 Why art thou cast down, O my soul? and why art thou disquieted in me? hope thou in God: for I shall yet praise him for the help of his countenance.
6 O my God, my soul is cast down within me: therefore will I remember thee from the land of Jordan, and of the Hermonites, from the hill Mizar.
7 Deep calleth unto deep at the noise of thy waterspouts: all thy waves and thy billows are gone over me.
8 Yet the LORD will command his lovingkindness in the daytime, and in the night his song shall be with me, and my prayer unto the God of my life.
9 I will say unto God my rock, Why hast thou forgotten me? why go I mourning because of the oppression of the enemy?
10 As with a sword in my bones, mine enemies reproach me; while they say daily unto me, Where is thy God?
11 Why art thou cast down, O my soul? and why art thou disquieted within me? hope thou in God: for I shall yet praise him, who is the health of my countenance, and my God.


Is it possible that the stirring that is in your soul has caused the action of belief, and obedience, in you? You said you are now attending services, and leading your family back to a path that you were once taught was right by your parents, right? So, this is not emotion, which can be temporary, but so deep in you that you have turned directions in your life. It's you under His control, as Dave pointed out so well. Your belief, and obedience, are sustained by the Holy Spirit. I think the stirring is there if there is belief to action in you. This is the ultimate form of worship...doing all things unto Him. Ecclesiates 12:13 "Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man." God can use this (dry?) time to send your roots deeper for water, and your branches upward more for the light of Truth if you abide in Him despite your feelings. I imagine you have learned that lesson somewhat from your younger days of straying, and maybe God is strengthening your roots this time. The encouraging thing is that you are not counting on your emotion to be sure of the Rock on which you stand this time, but faith. Notice that Psalm, David didn't either...he simply counted on the hope of it because He trusted God at His Word, even in a time of deep despair like this one where he couldn't feel it, or see it. I think someone in a dry season can hope in the ability to feel the stirring one day, and know that the stirring is there even when they can't feel it, because they believe God at His Word.

You have had a lot of training in the Word, and the Lord is able to use that which your parents, and the Holy Spirit, have hidden in your heart in your life today. (Thank them!) So, the Holy Spirit is able to bring it up for you, and to help you hold the truth of it, and rely on it as you grow in Him. You are heading back in the direction that your parents were leading you...is it familiar? Now, the difference is that's Jesus in front of you, and you are a willing disciple yourself no matter what the circumstances are being led by the Holy Spirit. Now that you have the Holy Spirit teaching you, you can see the truth in those principals for yourself.

My encouragement to you is to fill your mind up with the good things of Him, and allow your simple affection to be directed at Him freely without the expectation of a flood of it, or that it will be described as others describe it. Trust Him to do things in your life His time...you can't grow yourself, or decide your own direction, when you are supposed to be dependant on the Lord for such things. Set any pride (self- awareness) aside, and be genuine with Him. Come as a little child, basically. Stay in prayer, and in the Word, it's a feast of manna, and long drink of water to fill you up to overflowing...I imagine you are a lot like the prodigal son who was so hungry to eat at his Father's table, even if it was only as a servant. And what happened? His Father prepared as feast for the homecoming of His son!!!!

We should worship Him in Spirit and in Truth, and He will take nothing less than all of you. If you are setting your mind on that, then don't worry about outward affection, because it is already there inwardly. This is not about style, but about God demanding all, and us surrendering. By turning around, and walking in the direction of right, you are giving it to Him by faith...even when you don't feel it. This IS the STIRRING!!!!! I think the affection will come...like a flood as I said, in His time. He will continue to strip you of self, and expose the light to all of you. He wants His children to love Him with all their heart, mind, and soul, and might. You have mustered up the might to do that, and now you are leading your family in that direction...MORE STIRRING...devotion enough to lead the ones you love in the Way. The rest will be His too.

I am sorry this is so long, but I wanted to share some verses...

God's desires for your life are in this verse....

Deuteronomy 5:29 " O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever! "

Think of your heart as His Tabernacle, and set it on Him...

Exodus 25:22a "And there I will meet with thee, and I will commune with thee..."

Colossians 3:1-3 "If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God."


Proverbs 4:23 "23 Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life."

Set your mind on Him...
Proverbs 1:7 " The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction. "

Proverbs 14:26-27 "26 In the fear of the LORD is strong confidence: and his children shall have a place of refuge.
27 The fear of the LORD is a fountain of life, to depart from the snares of death.
"

2 Corinthians 10:5 " Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;"

The Lord bless you, and your whole family has my prayers. BTW, welcome home, brother.

Hey Dave, could you give a link for that quote of Mr. Begg's? Thanks, I'd enjoy reading it.
 
WMD,
I think that your testimony is fantastic and the spirit has given you great eyes to see what is truly precious.

Thank you for sharing.
 
Hey Dave, could you give a link for that quote of Mr. Begg's? Thanks, I'd enjoy reading it.

Sorry I missed that. The quote was from Macarthur. I'm not sure if I copied out of his NT commentary a while ago or if it's from one of his sermons. I'll try to find out when I have more time. It's Alistair Begg who likes to say "there's no magic in it".
 
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