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I Answered My Own Thread - thank you

AV,

Perhaps you could tell me who the infallible translators were in 1611? Where in scripture does it say there will be infallible translators in 1611? Why did God wait around till 1611 to have an infallible translation?
 
Thessalonian said:
AV,

Perhaps you could tell me who the infallible translators were in 1611? Where in scripture does it say there will be infallible translators in 1611? Why did God wait around till 1611 to have an infallible translation?
If you are being serious I might answer. If you are just trying to be smart them I'm not intrested.

Don't mean to be rude here but I've answered those questions many times before and I detect a bit of "cuteness" here.

And you wouldn't like my answer anyway. :roll:
 
AVBunyan said:
Thessalonian said:
AV,

Perhaps you could tell me who the infallible translators were in 1611? Where in scripture does it say there will be infallible translators in 1611? Why did God wait around till 1611 to have an infallible translation?
If you are being serious I might answer. If you are just trying to be smart them I'm not intrested.

Don't mean to be rude here but I've answered those questions many times before and I detect a bit of "cuteness" here.

And you wouldn't like my answer anyway. :roll:

Judge not lest you be judged. :o
 
AVBunyan said:
Thessalonian said:
Judge not lest you be judged. :o
That's what I thought - I don't think you are not really interested - my opinion.

No you are quite wrong. I am in fact interested. But I suppose "interested" to you means that I submit to your opinion. Can't guarantee that.
 
Thessalonian said:
AVBunyan said:
Thessalonian said:
Judge not lest you be judged. :o
That's what I thought - I don't think you are not really interested - my opinion.

No you are quite wrong. I am in fact interested. But I suppose "interested" to you means that I submit to your opinion. Can't guarantee that.
Ok Thess - my apology - let's go for it - I have to go to church shortly but give me a bit and I'll answer.

Later 8-)
 
Thessaloninas said:
1. Perhaps you could tell me who the infallible translators were in 1611?
2. Where in scripture does it say there will be infallible translators in 1611?
3. Why did God wait around till 1611 to have an infallible translation?
1. They were sinners – many were probably genuine Christians, many were sincere, holy men in the practical Christian lives, they were brilliant men, they were humble men, they felt they were unqualified to even be on the committee to translate God’s word one final time. But they were called and they sought to be used by God to do what they were called to do.

I never said these men were infallible but the God behind the men is. I never said they were inspired (they never believed it either) but…but…but what they put down I believe to be providentially guided by the providential hand of and all-powerful God. I do not believe the apostles, David, Moses, etc. were inspired either but what they put down was – II Tim. 3:16.

Thess – I believe God runs things – I believe he directed those men of different beliefs and views about doctrinal issues to put down what he wanted. These men were not dispensational in their beliefs but the book they put together was. Many were baby sprinklers and yet the Bible doesn’t teach that – many were post or a-millennial – the book doesn’t teach that but they translated anyway. Any ole’ bush will do – God can, has, and will use any instrument he chooses to carry out his directive will.

They were not infallible but what they put down was and much has been made light of the typos, printer errors, spellings etc. of which all has been covered before – Please see the works of Dr. David Reagan for this and others.

2. Nowhere. Nowhere does it say the apostles and the Jewish writers of the OT and the NT were infallible either – but what God had them put down was. David was an adulterer. Moses was a murderer and God used these men. Here is one for you – show me one scripture – I just need one – that only the original autographs were inspired. Let’s go further – give me one where it says the original autographs were inspired. I can show you in II Tim. 3:16 where scripture is but not the originals – though I personally believe they were but you can’t prove it from scripture – one takes it by faith. We are told to live and walk by faith.

3. Only God knows but is why I believe he waited until 1611. First, I believe, he waited till there was a king in England with a Jewish name. James comes from Jacob – the oracles were given to the Jews. God knew the modern world would be an English speaking world so he waited until the English language was at its peak and then had his word put down one final time. People will dispute this by saying we don’t this way anymore and there are right – the English language ahs gone down hill and is a English “slang†now – a mere shadow of what it is. People are dumber today due to public education, TV, newspapers and magazine, and internet. God knew what he was doing. Why “downgrade†the AV1611 by “updating†it to this modern English junk today. Dr. E. F. Hills covers this topic quite well. Instead of polluting God’s word why not have people learn to read again. The Holy Spirit is the teacher anyway.

Plus God used England to get his word out instead of Spain. Should have been Spain (humanly speaking) – they had the coastline and the navy but they were to busy stealing from the American Indians and persecuting believers in Europe so God sent Spain’s Armada to the bottom of the sea and turned it over to England who just kicked out Rome. Plus Spain aligned themselves with the Alexandrian manuscripts of Origen which were corrupt. The missionary movement came from England, Germany, Scotland, and America (English speaking) not Spain. Dispute this if you like – history is history. Spain has never, or ever will be responsible for true scriptural revival.

I trust that answers the questions thought I don’t think you will agree with much of it.

God bless
 
I trust that answers the questions thought I don’t think you will agree with much of it.

Actually in principal regarding Bible translations I am very close to what you think. I find the King James stuff to be a strech and I do not believe the Apostles and prophets were only infallible when the word was written. Jesus said "he who hears you hears me". Scripture actually places much more emphasis on speaking and hearing the word of God over writing and reading it. Further it never says that "Word of God" = scripture interchangably. Don't get me wrong, scripture is the WOG. But one must not only have the words but the correct understanding of those words or he does not have the WOG. One who believes he should baptize dead people because a verse in Corinthians makes mention of such a practice in the early Church has the scripture but does not have the WOG. Further, Paul in Acts 17 speaks the Word of God to the bereans. He doesn't write it to them. We're not even told what he said. This occurs in other places as well. The scriptures were not written down until after the events occured. Caiphas the High Priest spoke the word of God, he did not write it. The Holy Spirit spoke through him at the moment he said those words "it is better for one to die for the many". He never wrote them, yet they were infallible when they spoke them because the Bible clearly indicates that it was the spirit of God speaking through him as the hight priest that year. Even in the midst of the greatest sin ever God spoke through the high priest. He was most definitely a sinner as he condemned the God of the universe to death. I do not believe in blanket infallibility but circumstantial or limited infallibility. Thus I do not get bothered by an apostle (Paul) saying "the good that I would do, I do not, while the evil that I would not do I do". He was a fallible man whom God chose to speak through infallibly.

As I said, I do believe the Holy Spirit guides men today as much as in Bible times. Therefore I do have no problem with many English translations. I also am quite in agreement with you that we do not have the originals, but this does not mean we do not have the infallible word of God. I do however believe that no english translation is the complete word of God. This is not possible because the English language does not have a one to one correspondence to the hebrew and the greek. For example there are 7 words for love in the Greek but only one word, love in the English. You can in some cases, by the context get the deeper meaning. But for instance in John 21 where Jesus says "peter do you love me" and Peter responds "Lord you know that I love you". The word Peter uses is phileo rather than the word Jesus uses, agape. It makes a difference in the understanding of the passage, but you cannot get the difference out of the English. Even the 1611 KJV. This losing meaning in the translation does not make them errant from my perspective any more than one who believes a ball is read and round and rubber and another knows it's chemical composition, posistion on the color spectrum and elastic constand are in error or contradictory. Some of the depth is lost however. Less of a problem from my Catholic perspective I think. But that's another discussion.

I did find your view interesting. Thank you for it.
 
Thank you AV and Thess...

I thought it was going to get a bit nasty, but actually I liked both of your expos, I enjoyed it very much thanx. :P

Having said that can we continue with the original post?
LOL or start it again? :roll:

UR Blessed

Xicali
 
xicali said:
I thought it was going to get a bit nasty, but actually I liked both of your expos, I enjoyed it very much thanx. :P

Having said that can we continue with the original post?
LOL or start it again? :roll:
See, I can be cordial - I really can! :-D

Not sure how we got in the AV1611 issue - that seems to follow me wherever I go :lol:
 
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