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Bible Study I cant find about the # of ppl allowed in to heaven!

P

peace4all

Guest
ok everyone. I remember a whiel ago i was debating with someone abotu the workings of heaven, and someone brought up some point that , apparently somewhere in the bible, it said there would onyl be 70k ppl let into heaven or something. and they had to meet certain requirements.


REGARDLESS IF YOU BELIEVE IT OR INTERPRET IT DIFFRENTLY, I would like the passage so i can read on my own and make some of my own judgements..


ty guys and gals
 
If you want to get the fuller understanding on this read both Revelation chapter 7 & 14 for scripture here tells us that a great multitude of people will be saved and go to heaven.
:) :D :wink:
 
from reading passage 7 i got this

4Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel.

what does "sealed" mean.. and why does it refer to it in teh past tense>?
 
peace4all said:
what does "sealed" mean.. and why does it refer to it in teh past tense>?
Click to expand...

G4972
σφραγίζω
sphragizō
Thayer Definition:
1) to set a seal upon, mark with a seal, to seal
1a) for security: from Satan
1b) since things sealed up are concealed (as the contents of a letter), to hide, keep in silence, keep secret
1c) in order to mark a person or a thing
1c1) to set a mark upon by the impress of a seal or a stamp
1c2) angels are said to be sealed by God
1d) in order to prove, confirm, or attest a thing
1d1) to confirm authenticate, place beyond doubt
1d1a) of a written document
1d1b) to prove one’s testimony to a person that he is what he professes to be
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G4973
Citing in TDNT: 7:939, 1127
- available from e-sword.com

The word "sealed" is apparently in the "perfect participal passive". Perfect participle stresses the state brought about by the finished results of the action. Perfect Tense describes an action, or more correctly a process, that took place in the past, the results of which have continued to the present. It has no exact equivalent in English, but is usually translated by using the auxilliary verbs "has" or "have". - Complete Word Study New Testament.
 
Some translations say 144,000ssssss.... meaning plural.

144 is 12 x 12....... 12 is the number of completion, therefore 12 x 12 is symbolic of the absolute completion. Adding the "000" just expresses the number that is included in this absolute completion.

For a cross-reference consider the New Jerusalem's measurements and content (also, check the Tabernacle. I'm not 100% sure but I believe you will find the same sort of "12" measurements).

In love,
cj
 
The 12 tribes of Israel, refering to the firstfruits I think. 12,000 from each of the tribes, 144,000. We as Gentiles are grafted into the vine. There are multitudes in white robes as seen in Revelation. I think, but not sure, that these are the saints of which we may belong to. Again, may want to research that one.

Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

At any rate not just 144,000 will be in heaven. For one needs to ask who are these multitudes standing before the throne?
 
so the argument of onyl 144k being allowed into heaven has sorta been shot down right?


what about the thing somewhere that said you must be of israel birth?

Srry for all the questions. I have been sorta, debating with a friend IRL and would rather have facts than assumptions :P
 
peace4all said:
so the argument of onyl 144k being allowed into heaven has sorta been shot down right?
Click to expand...
I'd say so. Sealed doesn't mean "allowed". I think the error may come from people reading only the one verse and not reading through the next 5 verses to Rev 7:9. They see what they want then end it right there.

shrug.gif




peace4all said:
what about the thing somewhere that said you must be of israel birth?
Click to expand...

That's OT concerning marriage to keep the people pure I believe. This is one of the major issues the Jews had with Christ. He was even with Sumerians who the Jews shunned.

"Outsiders" could become "jewish" by accepting the ways of the jews, be circumsized.

Paul was commisioned by the spirit of Christ to bring salvation to the Gentiles, those not of Jewish descent. The books of Romans, Galatians, Ephesians, 1 Corinthians, 2 Corinthians etc. are full of this.

Look at Revelation 7:9 again:

Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
 
How many will go to heaven?

Fellow students of the Scriptures:
The hope of being vivified and enjoying the spiritual blessings in the heavenlies, is promised only to the Church, the Body of Christ, as we read in Ephesians. As to how many, only God knows. This Church began in the time of the Acts, being made up of both Jews and Gentiles, and so when complete would no doubt total millions, and maybe billions.

Jesus earthly ministry was to His own, Israel, whose hope for many, many years was the return of the Messiah in power and great glory to defeat their enemies and establish the Kingdom. But, Jesus came to fulfill many of their scriptures, and to preach the gospel of the kingdom, to bring about a change in their hearts which was necessary for the kingdom to be a reality then. While Jesus used such phrases as "lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven," it is my understanding that He will bring rewards for His people and proselytes who will inheirit the Millennial Kingdom, based upon their faith and works.

As for the 144,000, 12.000 from each of the 12 tribes of Israel, their future is Millennial Kingdom, to have special positions in the kingdom.
All this is in the book of Revelation, which, I believe is primarily the Day of the LORD, the LORD' s Day, which is all future when Israel's time clock is running again, the Church, Christ's Body being caught away to the heavens. So, the tribulation saints will, in my opinion, have their blessings on earth during the millenniun, and the New Earth.

Those are my thoughts. God Bless, Bick
 
Are only a few people going to be saved?

If the gate is narrow, does it mean that few will be saved? Are the vast majority of mankind to be damned? Are only a few people going to be saved?

Again, I trust our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ and His answer to the same question.

Luke said:
Luke 13:22-30 Then Jesus went through the towns and villages, teaching as he made his way to Jerusalem. Someone asked him, "Lord, are only a few people going to be saved?"

He said to them, "Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to. Once the owner of the house gets up and closes the door, you will stand outside knocking and pleading, 'Sir, open the door for us.'

"But he will answer, 'I don't know you or where you come from.'

"Then you will say, 'We ate and drank with you, and you taught in our streets.'

"But he will reply, 'I don't know you or where you come from. Away from me, all you evildoers!'

"There will be weeping there, and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves thrown out. People will come from east and west and north and south, and will take their places at the feast in the kingdom of God. Indeed there are those who are last who will be first, and first who will be last."
Click to expand...

In his classic "Studies in the Sermon on the Mount", Dr. D. Martyn Lloyd-Jones explains:

Martyn Lloyd-Jones said:
Leave a question like that to God; God, and God alone, knows how many will be saved. It is not your business or mine to discover how many are to be saved.

Our business is to strive to enter, to make certain that we are in it; and if we make certain we are in it, one day in glory, and not until then, we shall find out how many companions we have. And it may very well be that we shall have a great surprise. But it is not our business now. Our business is to enter in, to strive to enter in, to make certain. Enter in, and you will find yourself amongst the saved, amongst those who are to be glorified, amongst all who look unto Jesus, 'the author and finisher of our faith'.
(Page 555, chapter: "The Narrow Way")
Click to expand...

:wink:
 
so gary.

Is that saying that "heaven" has like, a "fire capacity" and ppl have to enter and leave to fit everyone else in?
 
peace4all said:
so gary.

Is that saying that "heaven" has like, a "fire capacity" and ppl have to enter and leave to fit everyone else in?
Click to expand...

No

:D
 
There isn't any set number that we know of on how many people will enter heaven.

Rev. 7: does talk about the 144,000 Jews, they are sealed for their protection while they go through God wrath. It is like the Passover, when the Jews were told to put blood on the door post and God would pass over that house. Well the same thing will happpen in the end time.

Also, in Rev. 7: we now see a great multitude, so great in number that no one could count them. If no one was able to count them this has got to be a really large group of people...

I would also like to add that the 144,000 jews are faithful and that is why they will be protected from God's wrath.
Rev. 14 tells us about the faithful Jews 144,000...Rev.14:4 These are the ones who were not defiled with women, for they are virgins. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These were redeemed from among men, being firstfruits to God and to the Lamb. 5 And in their mouth was found no deceit, for they are without fault before the throne of God.
 
Number of people in heaven

2 Timothy 2:15 encourages us to study to be approved workmen of God, rightly dividing the word of God, to not be ashamed.

The great bulk of the bible is concerning Israel, their backliding, their rejection by God as His people, their hope in His recalling them from where they have been scattered, and the promise of Messiah-saviour who will come the second time in power and glory to defeat their enemies and establish His millennial kingdom for the remnant of believing Israelites alive at that time. All the righteous believers in the past ages will be resurrected and enjoy the blessings of the kingdom. Even gentiles, who treated Christ's brethren kindly will be granted life for the millennial age.

Revelation, or literally, "the unveiling", is the unveiling of Christ as King of kings and Lord of lords, and Practically all of the book is concerned with
"the Day of the Lord", being called the "Lord's Day".

The other day described in the last two chapters is "God's Day," the New Heavens and New Earth era.

Those who are promised resurrected life in the heavenlies is the Church, the Body of Christ, which began at least with the Apostle Paul, and according to Romans 11 has yet to be filled.

Actually, to many, the New Earth is called "heaven" even though the New Jerusalem is said "to come down out of heaven from God." But, since God Himself, also, comes down to dwell among mankind, and is on HIs throne with the Lamb, it would be the heaven where God is.

God bless you, Bick
 
I will tell u the truth but most will not want to believe it. If u take ALL churches that believe in Jesus as lord and savior u will find that less than 2% of the church truly has God. Jesus said few and he meant very few. Of the church, Jesus said, there is the few and the many.
 
This list of 'all the tribes of Israel' is peculiar because instead of Dan we have Manasseh. Can anyone guess as to why this is?

Rev 7:4-8
4 Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel.
5 From the tribe of Judah 12,000 were sealed, from the tribe of Reuben 12,000, from the tribe of Gad 12,000,
6 from the tribe of Asher 12,000, from the tribe of Naphtali 12,000, from the tribe of Manasseh 12,000,
7 from the tribe of Simeon 12,000, from the tribe of Levi 12,000, from the tribe of Issachar 12,000,
8 from the tribe of Zebulun 12,000, from the tribe of Joseph 12,000, from the tribe of Benjamin 12,000.
(NIV)
 
Because Joseph (v. 8) and Manasseh, one of Joseph's two sons (Gen. 48:5), represent two different tribes, Joseph will still have the double portion of the birthright (1 Chron. 5:1-2) during the millennium (Ezek. 48:4-5).

In the account here, as in 1 Chron. 2--9, the tribe of Dan was omitted because of its idolatry (Judg. 18:30-31; 1 Kings 12:29-30; 2 Kings 10:29; cf. Gen. 49:17)............ However, Dan will still be counted during the millennium (Ezek. 48:1) because Jacob's blessing was upon him, so that through the Lord's salvation Dan will still be included as one of the tribes (Gen. 49:16-18).


In love,
cj
 
# ppl allowed in heaven

Yesha: Both the tribes of Dan and Ephraim are relaced by Joseph and Levi in this account in Rev. 7:7-8. This happened because Dan and Ephraim introduced idolatry into Israel, and their names were blotted out from under heaven. See Deut. 29:18,20.

The 144.000 here are sealed, protected? by theangels who were to injure the land and the sea. It seems the 144,000 will be special servants for the Lord during the millennium.

God bless you, Bick
 
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