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Growth I have been crucified with Christ, never-the-less I live, yet not I, but Christ who lives in me.....

H

His_nee (Jeff)

Guest
Christ tells us to take up our cross daily and follow Him, IF we want to be His.

some 'historian' reported that
"...In the Roman cultural context, “carrying the cross” was tacit admission that the criminal was wrong and that the death sentence was just. Death by crucifixion is what God still demands ... as well."

"We may confess our sin all we like, but if we fail to die to self, that self will continue to produce sin. "

So to be free from the power of sin and death requires more than confession and repentance. 'follow through' so to speak.
 
I think basically it is about the command of Christ to take up the cross daily- when this is not accomplished , the believer remains in perpetual sin or in sin's power constantly repeating their sins and seemingly powerless to stop sinning.
The fact that believers are delivered from sin and from the power of sin goes unnoticed or unfullfilled if the cross is not taken up and borne daily.

Here's an excerpt from the link study : http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=28029&forum=34

that's too long to post here in full. it is simple, straightforward and directly from / in line with Scripture.

Romans 8:2; "For the law of the Spirit of life has freed me in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and of death."

"It is important to know that it is not special Christians only who are delivered from the law of sin and of death. Every Christian is delivered from the law of sin and of death. It is possible that they do not know it but the fact remains that EVERY person who is born again is delivered from the law of sin and of death. Before we were born again we lived under the law of sin and death. We had no power or ability to ever get away from this law. It was our master and we were its slave. We were unable to do anything to get free. The history of many Christians is one of constant resolutions and constant breaking of resolutions. They continually resolve to do something and continually fail. They may even thank and praise the Lord that God's Word says that they should be free."
 
I think basically it is about the command of Christ to take up the cross daily- when this is not accomplished , the believer remains in perpetual sin or in sin's power constantly repeating their sins and seemingly powerless to stop sinning.
The fact that believers are delivered from sin and from the power of sin goes unnoticed or unfullfilled if the cross is not taken up and borne daily.
I'm confused by this. If accepting the gift of forgiveness from Christ, confessing our sins, and repenting still isn't enough, what are you suggesting we have to do? What more does it mean to "take up the cross daily"? Are you referring to some of those groups that literally walk around carrying huge wooden crosses and flogging themselves as they go?

Perhaps the answer is in the link you provided but it's late at night and I have to work tomorrow morning, so I'm not going to be reading that huge article which is far from straight and to the point. maybe you could give us the Reader's Digest version of it if that is where the answer lies?
 
oh, it is simple and straightforward, but not many teachers get so far(who knows what law frees a man from the law of sin and death? according to Scripture) .....
here is a few paragraphs to illustrate>
"
May I ask, does anybody need to hold onto the earth's gravitational force? Does someone need to pray that this force will quickly pull things down? No, there is no need to pray, for the earth most spontaneously attracts things downward. It is a law. All one needs to do is to remove his hand, to not purposely hold onto things. When the will is not working, then the law is manifested. When the will is not interfering, the law operates. In a similar way, the Spirit of the Lord in us does not need our help. If you are afraid that the Spirit of the Lord in you may not be responsible and so you rush to help when temptation comes, it shows that you have not seen that the Spirit of the Lord in you is a law.

The law of gravity does not depend on anyone believing in it or even understanding it. It's force remains constant no matter what we think , believe or understand about it. Have you ever been setting in a chair and get concerned that you might float up to the ceiling in your home? Have you even made any efforts to keep yourself from floating away? Of course not. As long as we live on earth, will live under its power, influence and force. The only escape from gravity would be in outer space. In space you would need to make efforts to stay in a chair and need to be concerned about floating away.

Now if you are not born again, you are now living under the power, influence and force of the law of sin and of death. Like the law of gravity it does not depend on anyone believing in it or even understanding it. It is fact. It is not that I sin accidentally or occasionally; it is not that I sometimes sin and sometimes do not; sinning is a law to me, for I constantly sin. Because this occurs all the time, I know it is a law. Whenever I would do good, evil is present. When Paul's eyes were opened to this, he realized that all his own efforts were futile. What had he tried? He had tried to do good. He had thought his will could overcome sin, not knowing that no will can ever overcome sin. But as soon as he saw sin as a law, not just a conduct, he immediately conceded that to will was useless. The will could never conquer the law. This, indeed, was a great discovery, a very great revelation.

When through God's mercy anyone is brought to see that sin is a law, he instantly knows how ineffective any method of overcoming sin with the will must be. Before he sees this, he is always making resolutions. When tempted, he bites his teeth and determines to overcome, but eventually he fails. The second time he is tempted he surmises that his first resolution was not strong enough, so this time he makes a firmer resolution to not sin again for any reason. But let me tell you, however strong his resolution is, he still fails again. He may yet conclude that something is wanting in his resolution, so when again tempted, he once more resolves before God and asks the Lord to help him. Since he is not sure of his resolution, he prays, "O Lord, please have mercy on me. Help me that I may not sin this time." After he gets up from his knees, he once again fails. He wonders why he cannot overcome sin by making resolutions. The answer is that it is because no amount of will effort can ever conquer a law.

I do hope that you will be clear on the nature of sin. If you see this law, you will be delivered from many hardships and sorrows. If you are willing to accept God's Word, you will know that sin is a law and that you cannot overcome it with your will......"

(no one ever has except Jesus, and He simply obeyed His Father in all things)
 
Ok, in that long explanation all he says is that we can't live without sinning. I think we all know that already. That's why we need the grace of God and His forgiveness. So are you saying since we won't be successful at living a sin free life, we shouldn't even try? This doesn't explain what you mean by in addition to the other things we also have to "take up the cross daily".

To say "no one ever has (lived sin free) except Jesus, and He simply obeyed His Father in all things" is nothing new. We all know this. Also, if it was so simple to obey God in all things, why can't any of us do it?
 
You misread something, or not enough. He is not saying that we can't live without sinning. As Scripture says, we cannot live without sinning by the strength of our own will-power. i.e. confession and repentance , again, is not enough to keep from sinning repeatedly.

How many times in Scripture is it repeated to "take up your cross daily" as a requirement to being a follower of Jesus ?
 
...How many times in Scripture is it repeated to "take up your cross daily" as a requirement to being a follower of Jesus ?
Well, yes, than that goes back to the question I asked you originally. What does it mean to you to "take up your cross daily" in relation to stopping you from sinning? Just in practical, doable terms, what does this mean in our every day lives if confessing and repenting aren't good enough? Do we have to do something in addition to confession and repentance? Even Paul was unable to live a sin free life and said so. How is it that we are supposed to be able to do that when even scripture says that none of us will?
 
It's the final offering that was made on the actual cross for us to be able to reconcile ourselves back to God that we symbolically pick up our cross in daily servitude.
 
Mat 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
Mat 16:25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

I think this taking up the cross is to be ready to face trials and tribulations even to the point of giving up one's physical life for Christ and the gospel.
 
yes, that and so much more (i.e. not just a readiness but an already crucified life in Christ Jesus, able and willing to do the Father's Will and doing it.)
as in the recent post by tob .... >

http://christianforums.net/Fellowship/index.php?threads/charles-spurgeon.54345/

and not so generally , although that's true it's not enough, but specifically and daily doing what Yhwh says to do..... all the time always ready, always willing, and quickly doing what is to be done at the right moment. (spurgeon got that head on it looks like)
 
If I can try and add something to the thread:

Imho, to pick up your cross daily, may also be to become as a little child.

It is (imho) about being dependant (on God) rather than independent (of self)
A child trusts and is dependent upon their parent/s, for love and guidance, protection and provision and many other things. It is the parents duty to raise the child in the way he should go, and not the child’s duty to raise themselves.

Dependency (on God) is the sinless way, and independence (of self) is the way to sin.

Paul also said that he was crucified to the world, and the world is crucified to him.
We only have one Father in Heaven, and He is a jealous parent. We ought not to be dependent upon the world or governments to parent us. I think this is particularly important today, as governments of the world today are trying to get more and more people more and more dependent upon them.
 
You misread something, or not enough. He is not saying that we can't live without sinning. As Scripture says, we cannot live without sinning by the strength of our own will-power. i.e. confession and repentance , again, is not enough to keep from sinning repeatedly.

How many times in Scripture is it repeated to "take up your cross daily" as a requirement to being a follower of Jesus ?
It is not only "NOT ENOUGH", but the truth is, that concentrating on NOT committing a particular sin does nothing but keep that sin constantly on your mind.... giving it even greater strength through your concentration on the law against it.

We shoot ourselves in the foot, the harder we strain at NOT sinning. This is why we are told to look nowhere but at Jesus....... because returning our focus to that sin (even if it is to "deny" it) takes our eyes off Jesus.
 
But Jesus remained sinless, as a man. With only the power of a man. How was he able to do this if it is impossible for man to not sin?
 
But Jesus remained sinless, as a man. With only the power of a man. How was he able to do this if it is impossible for man to not sin?
I think it was because he REALLY DID keep HIS eyes on His Father. I recall that He said He only did what He saw and heard from the Father.
 
I think it was because he REALLY DID keep HIS eyes on His Father. I recall that He said He only did what He saw and heard from the Father.

That's a pretty darn good answer. Could be true. He may have greater faith than the average man because He remembered His life with the Father and nothing to doubt?
 
That's a pretty darn good answer. Could be true. He may have greater faith than the average man because He remembered His life with the Father and nothing to doubt?
Yeah, I suppose that history might have had something to do with it. Dunno.
 
Whoops, wrong thread, lol

He probably really did keep His eyes on the Father. I'm sure He could see into the spirit realm. Plus He knew in His heart what the Fathers will was and perhaps received words of knowledge every day.
 
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It is impossible for us to stop sinning.Father does not look at us a sinners anymore. His wrath was satisfied at the cross because Messiah took it all for us. What we do is acknowledge we will always be sinners and anything that is holding us back from the fullness of him within us we confront it and do battle. For somethings they take years for others things it can be done instantly. But with the holy spirit we can win the victory, we cannot do it ourselves. Its a lifelong process . SO every day we surrender ourselves to him and die each day and let The Lord deal with it. The more you try to stop sin the more you will sin. We can have moments of anguish in defeating our enemies within
fire, heartache and pain to achieve the victory. Our flesh desires those things we dont want in our life so much. But thankfully the love and mercy of the father is higher,deeper and wider than anything you can imagine. SO the things we struggle with we throw ourselves upon his mercy and he will forgive us
 
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