I never knew you

[Nacho]

adstar:



No He did not, He died for as many as the Father hath given Him, and God accepted His death for them..they did not have to accept anything, in fact they were dead spiritually..

All for whom My Christ died for SHALL be made righteous by His death rom 5:

19For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Who are you trying to convince????? All of us or yourself?

We ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God. Only through Jesus Christ can we be saved.

 

[Pizzaguy]

Who are you trying to convince????? All of us or yourself?

We ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God. Only through Jesus Christ can we be saved.

I guess that he's never going to stop spamming the board with this, "He did'nt die for all" stuff - the other thread is long enough - and you'd think he'd have made his point there.

He better be careful, if he's so sure that Christ didn't die for all of us, maybe Christ will tell HIM to "get lost"!

I'd not want to be standing too close to you, sbg.

 

[stovebolts]

Matt 7:


22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Those who Jesus will utter these momentous words to, I never knew you, though they had been extremely religious, professed believers in Him, yet they never really trusted in Him..

For Nahum 1:7 says:


7The LORD is good, a strong hold in the day of trouble; and he knoweth them that trust in him.

Many today, who say they Trust in Jesus Christ for salvation as per eph 1:

12That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Yet it was all lip service, for if you examine their testimony, they really did not Trust the Jesus Christ of the bible for the salvation He wrought out for His elect, but they trusted in their freewill decision in the false Christ who died for every single individual in the world without exception, thereby making their salvation possible.

They did not Trust in the Christ who ensured by His death, the salvation of all the Sheep, and them only, but for that Christ who done all he could to save you, but now its left up to you to get saved..

It is to these that the Lord Jesus Christ, in that Day [ Judgment Day] will say " I never knew you ", this will be those whose names were never written in the Lambs book of Life.. rev 21:27

And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

lest He lied when He states He never knew them or He does not know those whose names are written in His book of Life.

Notice that Jesus says or does not say, I once knew you, but now I do not ! Jesus is intimating that He never was in a covenantal relationship with them, which means He did not shed His covenant blood for them, hear Jesus words :

Matt 26:


28For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

lk 22:20

Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.


See the intimacy with His chosen disciples, he stating that His blood was shed for them personally, He knew them intimately as He does all for whom His blood was Shed..

He shed His blood and rose again as the Great Shepherd of the Sheep Heb 13:

20Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

Now He knows His Sheep Jn 10:14

I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

So, if He tells them in Matt 7 23, I never knew you, and yet He died for them as His Sheep, then He lied..which of course is out of the question since the word says of Him [see 1 pet 2:22 & isa 53:9].

So this would also exclude them for the effects of the blood of the everlasting covenant, since it was shed by Him as the Great Shepherd of the Sheep, which Sheep He knew [ jn 10:14]


Folks, Jesus saying that to them " I never knew you ", He is simply saying that He never die for them, He never shed His Covenant Blood for them, and consequently, all they did in His Name, was vain and works of iniquity, for they never really trusted in him..

SBG, seems you started off ok, but I'm not sure how you made the jump to

but they trusted in their freewill decision in the false Christ who died for every single individual in the world without exception, thereby making their salvation possible.

This is where I think you missed the mark. You see, it's not about their "freewil decision in some false Christ" the way I understand you. Fact of the matter is that the ones Jesus spoke about were the ones who recieved their praise and rewards in this world and had no treasures stored for the world to come. Liken them to those who stood in the streets with long winded prayers, "Oh thank you God for not making me like them heathen... such a despicable group. Now look everybody what I can do".

 

[savedbygrace57]

nacho:

Who are you trying to convince?????

I am merely witnessing to the Truth, the convincing is up to God..

 

[cleanfreak]

Another thread about this?

Here are some questions for sbg57:
How do you witness to people who need Jesus? How do you know if they are "the chosen" according to your thinking?

 

[savedbygrace57]

Not Known in Covenant Love !



Those who will shortly be hearing these dreadful words " I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity" Matt 7:23

They were 100% known by God's omniscience, however, they were not known in Covenant Love, that Love God has for all those Chosen in their Covenant Head, the Lord Himself Jesus Christ Rom 8:39

39Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Also their names were not written in the Lamb's book of life from the foundation of the world, if they had been, surely the righteous Saviour would not have said " I never knew you ", He would have acknowledged having to once known them at least ! There was not one drop of His blood shed for them, because that blood was covenant blood !

Zech 9:11

As for thee also, by the blood of thy covenant I have sent forth thy prisoners out of the pit wherein is no water.

Thats describing redemption through His blood Eph 1:7

Heb 12:24

And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

Heb 13:20

Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

Matt 26:28

For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

So their damnation is Just in the day of Judgment ! For they shall be Judged according to their iniquities !

 

[savedbygrace57]

I was never responsible for you ! -



Matt 7:23

23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

From continual study of this passage and the word knew, which is the greek word ginōskō which means:


to learn to know, come to know, get a knowledge of perceive, feel

a) to become known

2) to know, understand, perceive, have knowledge of

a) to understand

b) to know

3) Jewish idiom for sexual intercourse between a man and a woman

4) to become acquainted with, to know

This word is also used in Rom 7:15 :

15For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

The RV renders it " That which I know not "

15For that which I do, I know not. For what I would do, that do I not; but what I hate, that I do.

The thought is this: I do not recognize as a thing that I am responsible for !

I was not aware of you being of My Sheep, the ones I layed down my life For John 10:14-15

14I am the Good Shepherd, and know My sheep and am known by Mine.


15As the Father knoweth Me, even so know I the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep.

See those Jesus laid down His Life for, as their Shepherd, He felt responsible for them, so of course He Knew them for which He was responsible for. Those in Matt 7:23, He never felt that way for them. He never knew them, in that He never felt responsible for them as His , He did not own them as His Sheep, and He their Shepherd, so He felt no responsibilty for them.

As the word know also means to feel . Jesus was telling them, I never had intimate feelings for you, which meant simply He never Loved them.

 

[savedbygrace57]

I never knew you !



Matt 7:22-23

22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Now If Christ tells some that He never knew them, then rest assured that neither did God the Father ever know them. Jesus says to the Father Jn 17:10

And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.

This being the case, those Christ will say that to, could not have been of that world that God so loved that He gave His Only Begotten Son for in Jn 3:16..

 

[savedbygrace57]

They never belonged to Christ !

Matt 7:23

23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

This statement means that these people, regardless of their religious activity in his name, were never owned by Christ as being of His Sheep. We know this because Christ says of His Sheep; Jn 10:14

I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

Now, if these in Matt 7:23 ever belonged to Christ, then Christ lied to them when He states, He never knew them !

All that belong to Christ, He knows them as His Sheep.

Yes Christ Sheep belong to Him as is indicated by this verse Mk 9:41

For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward.

Gal 3:29

29And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

The NIV If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

So Christ is saying He never claimed ownership of them,which means He never bought them with the price of His blood. He claims ownership of those He bought with a price ! 1 Cor 6:20;7:23

For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

Ye are bought with a price; be not ye the servants of men.

This denotes making them His Property !

Jesus is saying to these, ye were never mine ! Isa 43:1

But now thus saith the LORD that created thee, O Jacob, and he that formed thee, O Israel, Fear not: for I have redeemed thee, I have called thee by thy name; thou art mine.

You see how redemption accompanies belonging to the Redeemer. So Jesus Christ is telling those deluded souls in Matt 7:23, I never redeemed you, My precious blood was not Shed for you !

 

[francisdesales]

Another thread about this?

Here are some questions for sbg57:
How do you witness to people who need Jesus? How do you know if they are "the chosen" according to your thinking?

What's sad is that these threads are just the preachings of a person who has already been shown wrong over and over and ignores that. It would be nice if the Moderators would confine these threads to a forum called "Lectures from SBG", rather than posting them in the Apologetics Forum...

Regards

 

[savedbygrace57]

Another thread about this?

Here are some questions for sbg57:
How do you witness to people who need Jesus? How do you know if they are "the chosen" according to your thinking?

These questions are personal and not relevant to the subject. If you are going to debate, then debate what is written and relevant to the facts presented. Show how the scriptures that I am using are not correct, then show how they are correct. I will not respond to any posts that is of a personal question, that has nothing to do with debating a presentation of facts. Now disprove if you can, what I have stated about the meaning of Christ words 'I never knew you " !

 

[Eventide]

What's sad is that these threads are just the preachings of a person who has already been shown wrong over and over and ignores that. It would be nice if the Moderators would confine these threads to a forum called "Lectures from SBG", rather than posting them in the Apologetics Forum...

Regards

I'll 2nd that notion..

It is pretty sad what Calvinism has done to so many, especially sad for the younger Christians coming up and being indoctrinated into this theology.

 

[Pizzaguy]

These questions are personal and not relevant to the subject. If you are going to debate, then debate what is written and relevant to the facts presented. Show how the scriptures that I am using are not correct, then show how they are correct. I will not respond to any posts that is of a personal question, that has nothing to do with debating a presentation of facts. Now disprove if you can, what I have stated about the meaning of Christ words 'I never knew you " !

Actually, those questions illustrate your fallacy. And the fact that you cannot answer them is very telling. cleanfreak won this one, I suppose that means that you will start another thread where you go on and on trying to convince yourself that you are right.

Your's is certainly another gospel.

 

[savedbygrace57]

Those that Jesus knew and that He died for, He redeemed them from all iniquity by His death and blood Titus 2:14

14Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

And so it is written 2 Tim 2:19

Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

They depart from iniquity because Christ redeemed them from all iniquity, but the ones He will not claim Jesus calls them workers of iniquity, observe Matt 7:23

23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

They work iniquity because Christ did not give Himself in their behalf that He might redeem them from all iniquity !

 

[Elijah674]

Actually, those questions illustrate your fallacy. And the fact that you cannot answer them is very telling. cleanfreak won this one, I suppose that means that you will start another thread where you go on and on trying to convince yourself that you are right.

Your's is certainly another gospel.

Agreed, except it was not cleanfreak that won. Surely the person of the message must stand up to the God of testing! (Rev.'s last couple of verses) And that would mean ALL PROFESSED TRUTH OF THEIR [DOCTRINE] BEING OPENLY SEEN AND DOCUMENTED, and nothing meant about one motives & mind reading.

1 Thess. 5:21 'Prove all things, hold fast that which is good.'

By the way, where have you been?? Welcome back.

--Elijah

 

[savedbygrace57]

They were never considered of His Bride !

I know ye not not. The word know here denotes an intimacy, one of union, as that of Husband and Wife. These Jesus spake these words to were never considered of His Bride of His wife, the Lambs wife Rev 21:9

And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.

Remember id Eph 5, where Paul writes of the Great Mystery when comparing Christ and the Church with that which transpired at Creation with Adam and Eve . Eph 5:29-32,25

29For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:


30For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

31For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

32This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

vs 25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

The Picture here is that Christ Loved and Gave Himself for His wife, the Church.

Before He died for the Her, Christ had a relationship to Her as Her Head, even as Adam was the Head of His wife Eve before She Transgressed, and as Adam was accountable for His wifes Transgression, So in like manner, Christ was accountable for His Wife's Transgression, and it was this Legal accountability that made it Just for Him to die for Her sins. Now would not Christ KNOW who His wife is ? Would He not know her intimately ,every part or member of Her, as His Own Body ? Then it would be unbecoming to tell any part of Her, I never knew you. I conclude that those Jesus says those words to[I never knew you], were not of His Church, His Bride, that He Loved and Gave Himself for.

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

Please consider :
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slow about His promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not willing for anyone to perish, but that all should reach repentance.
Joh 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life.

Jesus did die for these men.
Obviously these men believed in Him, at least His name, but have some unrepentant sin in their lives that caused them to be lost.

Stay Blessed

1. Jesus did indeed die for all mankind, but his death only benefits those who trust Jesus. Anyone who teaches that Jesus didn't die for everyone is uneducated in Scripture.

2. They weren't lost because they have unrepented sins in their lives...after all, don't you still sin? Or have you perfectly repented of all your sins and are now sinless?

This is why the lost will be lost...they are lost because they refused to love the truth, hence by default, they refused to love Jesus because Jesus IS the truth, John 14:6

2 Thessalonians 2:10 and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.

Notice, they aren't lost because they were too bad, or because they were still sinning...they were lost because they refused to love the truth and to be saved.

People are lost, not because they couldn't succeed in repenting of all their sins, but because they refused to accept and love the truth, hence, they refused to accept Jesus Christ. That's why they are lost, cause they rejected Jesus, not because they were bad and sinning too much.

Surely you are not a teacher who teaches that people will be lost and rejected by Jesus because they were sinners who were unable to perfectly repent of all their sins? Because that would then be a gospel based on salvation through WORKS, not by faith and grace alone.

But there is a difference between the lost and saved. The lost don't care if they sin and have no conscience towards sinning, but the saved do, and hate their sinning.

Paul wrote most of the NT..was Paul lost when he wrote the Bible? Do we have a lost man writing two thirds of the NT? In Romans 7:15 Paul admits his sinning terribly, yet he was saved and not lost because he had not completely repented of all his sins.

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

Actually, those questions illustrate your fallacy. And the fact that you cannot answer them is very telling. cleanfreak won this one, I suppose that means that you will start another thread where you go on and on trying to convince yourself that you are right.

Your's is certainly another gospel.

I am new here, my first day, but I was able to conclude very quickly that savedbygrace57 seems to be teaching a different gospel to the Scripture.:bigfrown

 

[savedbygrace57]

I never knew you !


Isa 53:11

11He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

So how could Christ have justified them He says he never knew ?, How could he have bore their sins if He never knew them ? He only bare the sins of the many He knew ! Heb 9:28

28So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Its impossible for Christ to have bare people's sins, and not have known them !

Jesus said I know my Sheep and that He laid down His Life for the Sheep.

Jn 10:14-15

I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

Now if Christ died for them in Matt 7:23, and yet He said He never knew them, then He lied !

 

[savedbygrace57]

Those Jesus will yet say this to Matt 7:23

23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

They could never had been these 2 Tim 2:19

19Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

For these are the Ones He foreknew Rom 8:29

29For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Rom 11:2

God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,