I Really Need An Answer on This One...

[Biblereader]

Matthew 7

1: Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2: For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

Do we all agree that it is wrong, and in opposition to God, to judge anyone?

Is it wrong for me to judge another person, to say, you're bad, you're guilty,
you deserve to be punished...?

And, that we should obey God, rather than man?
It says in Acts: 29: Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.
That sometimes, man asks us to do things
that are contrary, to what God says to do..agreed?

 

[follower of Christ]

Matthew 7

1: Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2: For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

Do we all agree that it is wrong, and in opposition to God, to judge anyone?

Is it wrong for me to judge another person, to say, you're bad, you're guilty,
you deserve to be punished...?

No, we are perfectly fine in 'judging' those who are in sin in the church as far as knowing they are sinning.
We cant even say that someone we think is saved IS actually saved...only God knows their hearts. We can only go by actions and behavior that we SEE and witness.

The only 'punishment' we are permitted to inflict, however, is in separating from the brother or sister.
We have no options offered beyond that.

Paul shows conclusively that we ARE to 'judge' those in the church when they are in sin....and remove them from our midst if they refuse to quit.

It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife. And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you. For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed, In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump? Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators: Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.

But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.
(1 Corinthians 5:1-13 KJV)

Its is the worst joke of all that we allow the leaven of open sin into our churches and smile, nod, wave and pretend it isnt going on because the unlearned have told us 'Judge not'....

And, that we should obey God, rather than man?
It says in Acts: 29: Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.
That sometimes, man asks us to do things
that are contrary, to what God says to do..agreed?

Yes....we are.
And GODS word says to judge in the matter and ACT where there is open sin in the church.


.
.

 

[ProphetMark]

Matthew 7

1: Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2: For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

Do we all agree that it is wrong, and in opposition to God, to judge anyone?

Is it wrong for me to judge another person, to say, you're bad, you're guilty,
you deserve to be punished...?

I think it's OK to point out sin in people's lives if we know it is sin. The 'you deserve to be punished' part is where we cross the line and become guilty of judging people.

 

[samuel]

No, we are perfectly fine in 'judging' those who are in sin in the church as far as knowing they are sinning.
We cant even say that someone we think is saved IS actually saved...only God knows their hearts. We can only go by actions and behavior that we SEE and witness.

The only 'punishment' we are permitted to inflict, however, is in separating from the brother or sister.
We have no options offered beyond that.

Paul shows conclusively that we ARE to 'judge' those in the church when they are in sin....and remove them from our midst if they refuse to quit.

F.O.C. is correct in his evaluation. That is what is wrong with the Church today, to many liberalists who think as long as you don't kill someone, you have the right to sin all you want. And that without any recourse from God, or man. And some might! even find a way of excusing murder.

 

[Panin]

1Cr 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?

1Cr 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

1Cr 6:4 If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.

1Cr 6:5 I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?

1Cr 10:15 I speak as to wise men; judge ye what I say.

1Cr 11:13 Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered?

1Cr 11:31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.

I think this pretty much sums it up.

Finally, this is one of my favourite verses in the bible:

Jhn 8:15 Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man. (Jesus Speaking)

 

[tim-from-pa]

Matthew 7

1: Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2: For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

Do we all agree that it is wrong, and in opposition to God, to judge anyone?

Is it wrong for me to judge another person, to say, you're bad, you're guilty,
you deserve to be punished...?

And, that we should obey God, rather than man?
It says in Acts: 29: Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.
That sometimes, man asks us to do things
that are contrary, to what God says to do..agreed?

That judgment is by one's own standards rather than biblical. If God already pronounced judgment on something, then a person is not judging, but rather God already has if that is pointed out.

"Judge not, that ye not be judged" is a really spiritual way of saying, "It takes one to know one." I always said that one can tell a person's faults by how they judge another.

 

[JoJo]

That is what is wrong with the Church today, to many liberalists who think as long as you don't kill someone, you have the right to sin all you want. And that without any recourse from God, or man. And some might! even find a way of excusing murder.

Seriously? "The right to sin all you want" and "without any recourse from God?? Who thinks like that? Who teaches that way? I'd really be interested in knowing the names of churches or denominations who preach that it's okay to sin.

 

[jasoncran]

That is what is wrong with the Church today, to many liberalists who think as long as you don't kill someone, you have the right to sin all you want. And that without any recourse from God, or man. And some might! even find a way of excusing murder.

Seriously? "The right to sin all you want" and "without any recourse from God?? Who thinks like that? Who teaches that way? I'd really be interested in knowing the names of churches or denominations who preach that it's okay to sin.

the ecla the some of the mainline methodist chruch preach and allow gay marriage. that is what he is talking about, a chrurch in my hometown split over that,gay marriages.

 

[JoJo]

But do they believe it is a sin?

 

[jasoncran]

But do they believe it is a sin?

no, they see gay marriage as normal, the newly formed chrurch from that split called it sin.

 

[JoJo]

If they don't believe it's a sin, then I don't think they fall under the category of churches that preach it's okay to sin.

If they are blinded by their sin, that is another thing, and if they are misleading others in their sin, that too is another thing. But if they truly do not believe it is a sin and they do preach against other sins, then they aren't intentionally giving the message that sin itself is okay.

Note to all: I am NOT saying that certain sins are okay. Please no one misread or misinterpret my post.

 

[jasoncran]

If they don't believe it's a sin, then I don't think they fall under the category of churches that preach it's okay to sin.

If they are blinded by their sin, that is another thing, and if they are misleading others in their sin, that too is another thing. But if they truly do not believe it is a sin and they do preach against other sins, then they aren't intentionally giving the message that sin itself is okay.

Note to all: I am NOT saying that certain sins are okay. Please no one misread or misinterpret my post.

they ordain gay ministers therefore it is saying that being lbgt is ok in the sight of the holy one of isreal.

 

[JoJo]

Right, right, I understand what you're saying. But do they believe it is a sin? Apparently not.

So they may preach against sin in general (meanwhile not recognizing their own) and not be accused of intentionally teaching the false message that "sin is okay."

I know of know Christian church that teaches that "sin is okay."

 

[jasoncran]

Right, right, I understand what you're saying. But do they believe it is a sin? Apparently not.

So they may preach against sin in general (meanwhile not recognizing their own) and not be accused of intentionally teaching the false message that "sin is okay."

I know of know Christian church that teaches that "sin is okay."

huh, they are saying that the sin of lbgt is ok and ignore the very verse that condmen and therefore in that area they are condining that sin.it's obvious that the ecla is saying the sin lbgt is ok and that lord is ok with when are delibarelty sidestepping and not preaching what the bible says. if they did read the whole thing and preached and believed that wouldnt say being a gay person and a pastor is ok.

 

[samuel]

I know of know Christian church that teaches that "sin is okay."

You may not be listening to their doctrines, and preaching very closely. Believe it or not! a great percentage of the churches in this country, are passing on the message that sinning is normal and ok. It goes much of the time under the doctrine of OSAS (once saved always saved).

Now I am Calvinist, and believe in the perseverance of the Saints, but OSAS is nothing like perseverance of the Saints, whether they believe it or not.

 

[JoJo]

I know of know Christian church that teaches that "sin is okay."

You may not be listening to their doctrines, and preaching very closely. Believe it or not! a great percentage of the churches in this country, are passing on the message that sinning is normal and ok. It goes much of the time under the doctrine of OSAS (once saved always saved).

Yeah, I kind of figured it would lead to that. I don't know where anyone ever got the idea that a church that teaches "once saved, always saved" also teaches that "sin is okay." Again, I do not know of any church or Christian denomination that outright teaches sin is okay.

huh, they are saying that the sin of lbgt is ok

That may be the message people get if they believe it is a sin. In the eyes of someone who believes it is a sin, then yes, they will view that church as teaching that sin is okay. But those churches do not actually preach the message "sin is okay" even if they give what would be the opposite message in the eyes of those who view it as sin.

This is exhausting! I keep repeating myself. Please someone tell me you understand what I'm trying to say here!

 

[samuel]

Well then we cannot blame Eve, for instituting sin. After all she did not even know! what sin was. She also convinced Adam, it was a good thing to do. Now seems God did not buy that line. But called sin, sin, and Adam and Eve suffered the consequences of their actions.

I guess they could have cried, but I just disobeyed a little thing, but that would not have changed the fact they disobeyed God. Remember there is no excuse for breaking the law, because there is always someone to ask before you do. So in the end there will be no excuse for sin, the scriptures say:

Romans3:3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
4, God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
5, But if our unrighteousness commend the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unrighteous who taketh vengeance? (I speak as a man)
6, God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world?

 

[JoJo]

Well then we cannot blame Eve, for instituting sin. After all she did not even know! what sin was. She also convinced Adam, it was a good thing to do. Now seems God did not buy that line. But called sin, sin, and Adam and Eve suffered the consequences of their actions.

You said, "That is what is wrong with the Church today, to many liberalists who think as long as you don't kill someone, you have the right to sin all you want." Was Eve a liberalist? Was she a church or even a church leader?

(Nevertheless, I'm betting Eve did know that she was doing wrong even if she didn't know the word "sin." God told her not to eat of the tree of life and she did. Did she have no conscience? Did she not know that it was wrong to disobey God?)

I ask you: What church or denomination teaches that "you have the right to sin all you want"?

 

[ronniechoate34]

Matthew 7

1: Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2: For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

Do we all agree that it is wrong, and in opposition to God, to judge anyone?

Is it wrong for me to judge another person, to say, you're bad, you're guilty,
you deserve to be punished...?

And, that we should obey God, rather than man?
It says in Acts: 29: Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.
That sometimes, man asks us to do things
that are contrary, to what God says to do..agreed?

We can't judge anyone. That is to say that we don't know who will be used of God and who is a reprobate. We don't walk anyone's heart here so we don't know how soft or hard they really are. Saul became Paul and God used him. But we should always judge right from wrong. We need to be aware of the false doctrines and the trappings of satan that are after this world. We are instructed to judge what is right and to do that we must clearly see what is wrong. Also as watchmen we should warn our brothers and sisters when we see them step away from the true faith and turn their ears to some seductive spirit. The doctrine of devils is cunning and we need to be sharp and full of discernment.

 

[samuel]

I ask you: What church or denomination teaches that "you have the right to sin all you want"?

Just because church x, does not come right out and say it is OK to sin. Does not mean its not inferred in their doctrines, or sermons. It seems to me YOU are trying to dodge the issue of sin, had satan said to Eve this is sin, she would probably have given her action more thought. But instead he said "did God really say". Then proceeded to make God the liar, by telling Eve God just wanted to keep her dumb.

So you don't have to say go out and sin, to teach its ok, it just depends on how you say it.