Growth I think I've done this before

[jasonc]

If a person doesn't believe the account of Genesis though, then it seems it'd be too easy to discredit more of the Bible, would you say? Maybe not salvinical but it's definitely not believing what God has said.

I cant say I woudnt agree as one has to dance a lot around things that are historically simply taken at face value and to ignore that Hebrews don't consider that part of genesis to be a parable nor have idioms of that nature. they used parables first before jesus did and still do. they call those the Chassidic fables.

 

[Kathi]

Certainly. But, so also do a whopping percentage of very misguided Christians...... or so they think.

Yes,"so they think".

 

[Jesse]

I cant say I woudnt agree as one has to dance a lot around things that are historically simply taken at face value and to ignore that Hebrews don't consider that part of genesis to be a parable nor have idioms of that nature. they used parables first before jesus did and still do. they call those the Chassidic fables.

Are there major stories in the OT that Hebrews do see as a parable and we take literally, for instance Esther? Job? Jonah?

 

[jasonc]

Are there major stories in the OT that Hebrews do see as a parable and we take literally, for instance Esther? Job? Jonah?

esther aka haddasha has a feast, that is likely a not parable to my knowledge though some jews say that about job, Jonah? no jesus said that the sign of his death was that Jonah was in the belly of the fish for three days and the jews today take that story literaly. they base the idea of sheol on Jonah 2:2 as well.besides emshell is a bit different then we say a parable is.

 

[Jesse]

esther aka haddasha has a feast, that is likely a not parable to my knowledge though some jews say that about job, Jonah? no jesus said that the sign of his death was that Jonah was in the belly of the fish for three days and the jews today take that story literaly. they base the idea of sheol on Jonah 2:2 as well.besides emshell is a bit different then we say a parable is.

Interesting.

Would you say the Jewish people historically and currently argue over what is written and meanings similar to the way Christians do today in regards to the Bible?

 

[jasonc]

Interesting.

Would you say the Jewish people historically and currently argue over what is written and meanings similar to the way Christians do today?

yes, they do.
1) is evolution true, and is the earth old
2) who will be the moshiac be and when is his appearance?
3) the same verses on Ezekiel we debate they debate
4) they also say the moshiac(messianic era) will usher a pure torah that shall dwell in us and the the third temple may be the torah in us.not popular but its said by the ramban and also others. ramban is respected
5) the nephilum
6) local flood vs global flood
7) gap theory

 

[Jesse]

yes, they do.
1) is evolution true, and is the earth old
2) who will be the moshiac be and when is his appearance?
3) the same verses on Ezekiel we debate they debate
4) they also say the moshiac(messianic era) will usher a pure torah that shall dwell in us and the the third temple may be the torah in us.not popular but its said by the ramban and also others. ramban is respected
5) the nephilum
6) local flood vs global flood
7) gap theory

No way! Shocking they argue about evolution.

I did not know that.

#2. So call me lazy, what is moshiac?

#4. Don't they believe the law is already written on their hearts?

From reading the OT, it doesn't seem they were too concerned about after life, I've wondered if the Egyptians obsession over this was why? It must have been shoved down their throats for 400 years.

 

[jasonc]

No way! Shocking they argue about evolution.

I did not know that.

#2. So call me lazy, what is moshiac?

#4. Don't they believe the law is already written on their hearts?

From reading the OT, it doesn't seem they were too concerned about after life, I've wondered if the Egyptians obsession over this was why? It must have been shoved down their throats for 400 years.

moshiac is the modiefied Hebrew word for messiah. no they don't. they have a view on that I would have read up on. im talking the Chassidic orthodox jews. they are the largest of the jewish sects.

 

[jasonc]

No way! Shocking they argue about evolution.

I did not know that.

#2. So call me lazy, what is moshiac?

#4. Don't they believe the law is already written on their hearts?

From reading the OT, it doesn't seem they were too concerned about after life, I've wondered if the Egyptians obsession over this was why? It must have been shoved down their throats for 400 years.

they have teaching on sheol, gehenna and paradise and gan eden. most jews have an idea the both sheol and gehenna is a place of torment but isn't forever. its a purgatory to them, though some believe its like hell as we see it.

 

[Jesse]

moshiac is the modiefied Hebrew word for messiah. no they don't. they have a view on that I would have read up on. im talking the Chassidic orthodox jews. they are the largest of the jewish sects.

Just recalled, the OT says that God will write the law on their hearts; according to them, that covenant hasn't happened yet.

It's interesting they are divided over the third temple, I thought they all expected one to be built.

 

[jasonc]

Just recalled, the OT says that God will write the law on their hearts; according to them, that covenant hasn't happened yet.

It's interesting they are divided over the third temple, I thought they all expected one to be built.

they aren't that divided, just that ramban said that. they do believe that a temple will be built only that the torah will be so pure that men shall have it inside them and they will do it at the temple. some do believe that the animal offerings will go away. but we digress.

 

[Malachi]

...but not on purpose...It freaked me out because I have been in error and have shared that error with other people.

Jesse,

The first thing you should understand is that God is well pleased with your acknowledgement. The next thing to do is to take steps to avoid this in the future. Here's some steps which could go a long way:
1. Confess your fault personally and directly to those whom you might have misled and ask their forgiveness(Jas 5:16).
2. Confes your sins to God alone, knowing that He is faithful and just to forgive you (1 Jn 1:9)
3. Seek out a mature Christian or spiritual leader in your church and see if you can obtain some personal Bible study help (Acts 8:30,31)
4. Commit yourself to a daily Bible study time, using all the necessary tools available (Acts 17:10-12)
5. Take advantage of the ministry of evangelists, pastors, and teachers in your local church, because God has placed them there to help you mature in the faith (Eph 4:11-15).

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

...but not on purpose.

I was studying this morning and I came across this verse and it freaked me out:

2 Peter 3:16 as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.

It freaked me out because I have been in error and have shared that error with other people.

Even if the person doesn't realize their misunderstanding scripture (ignorant - which is not a bad word by the way, it just means they haven't learned it yet), yet they begin to teach their understanding to the other people, in their ignorance, they unbeknownst to them are twisting the Word of God - to their own destruction. Not everyone in a debate, can be right, in fact, they both could be wrong. Are they piling destruction upon themselves?

James 3:1 Not many of you should become teachers, my fellow believers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly.

Yet, even now, am I understanding Peter correctly, is my understanding of that passage correct? We could destroy ourselves by having the wrong doctrine and sharing it with others?

Thanks.

Jersse,,
In this verse Peter was talking about Paul and his writings or the way he wrote or the words that he used. The way Paul spoke it was a little harder for some to grasp...Now then Jesse, the folks that Peter was refering to, They took Pauls words and twisted them and distorted them in a way to makes things look better for them selves and to trip up some and to make some look like fools. PICTURE THE TIMES AND THE PEOPLE...

Jesse now your concern is genuine and true and I am proud of yoou for bringing it up. This says alot about your heart and Love for GOD...Don't ever loose this Jesse !!!
We all make mistakes or have missunderstandings....it's a part of growing up. Now it is NO different in the kingdom of God or being a Christian.....As we grow (renewing our minds) God brings us unto a deeper level of understanding in His word....Example......scriptures as you grow in the Lord you will find new revelations with the very same scriptures...That is Gods way of bringing you to a higher understanding of His word.

Now Jesse here is the big thing I want you to get out of my reply...
The fact that you are asking this. only goes to show that God is taking you into a higher understanding of His word.
It should happen to all of us through out our walk in Christ. You are in NO TROUBLE.....relax, praise God and rejoice brother for you are growing in the Lord....

Look at it this way....God brought this to your attention.....Now it is up to you Jesse...What will you do with it?
Now I myself can see that you are truly doing the right thing and going in the right direction....You corrected your self where you felt needed, you asked forgiveness and chose to learn more about it....Brother you are setting such an awesome example and I pray that morte people would follow this as well.

I am proud of YOU and you are Growing so Jesse Please do not stop.
Bless you Brother
Jim

 

[Jesse]

Jersse,,
In this verse Peter was talking about Paul and his writings or the way he wrote or the words that he used. The way Paul spoke it was a little harder for some to grasp...Now then Jesse, the folks that Peter was refering to, They took Pauls words and twisted them and distorted them in a way to makes things look better for them selves and to trip up some and to make some look like fools. PICTURE THE TIMES AND THE PEOPLE...

Jesse now your concern is genuine and true and I am proud of yoou for bringing it up. This says alot about your heart and Love for GOD...Don't ever loose this Jesse !!!
We all make mistakes or have missunderstandings....it's a part of growing up. Now it is NO different in the kingdom of God or being a Christian.....As we grow (renewing our minds) God brings us unto a deeper level of understanding in His word....Example......scriptures as you grow in the Lord you will find new revelations with the very same scriptures...That is Gods way of bringing you to a higher understanding of His word.

Now Jesse here is the big thing I want you to get out of my reply...
The fact that you are asking this. only goes to show that God is taking you into a higher understanding of His word.
It should happen to all of us through out our walk in Christ. You are in NO TROUBLE.....relax, praise God and rejoice brother for you are growing in the Lord....

Look at it this way....God brought this to your attention.....Now it is up to you Jesse...What will you do with it?
Now I myself can see that you are truly doing the right thing and going in the right direction....You corrected your self where you felt needed, you asked forgiveness and chose to learn more about it....Brother you are setting such an awesome example and I pray that morte people would follow this as well.

I am proud of YOU and you are Growing so Jesse Please do not stop.
Bless you Brother
Jim

Thanks, Jim, I appreciate it and never thought about it in this way before. We are responsible for that which God has given us though, like the verse that says that to whom much is given (and we are good stewards of it), more will be given and this could apply to any blessing the Lord gives us, right? I can see it happening in the study I have in my place, it is really true that as we are renewing our minds, we are becoming less, He is becoming more (and I say this because I can see it in my study mates), that when we lose this life, we gain His and this life is not worth holding onto when we can walk as He is! Amen!

I had forgotten about this thread, but over the past week or so God has been showing me how people have taken what the Bible says and downplayed it in so many ways - and I was trying to figure out why. One reason could be the truth is too difficult for some to hear and another reason could be it's done in a way to help justify sin or downplay it - don't we all do that? Yet, it's not very beneficial, for instance, I have held onto a ton of anger towards my dad to the point where I admitted I didn't care what happens to him - nice attitude, but there it is.

I think what Peter says plays into this very much, he does say that it is possible to twist the word to the point where we destroy ourselves. It's one of those tough verses that if we look at it honestly, is a warning and difficult to reconcile with.