If all sin is of the devil...

[smaller]

Chapter and verse, please.

Rev. 20:
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

This is a 'matter to come' that has not yet been finalized.

I've been waiting patiently for you to say that it has already happened.

s

 

[for_his_glory]

{10} And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. Revelation 20:10 (NASB)

And the devil is thrown into the lake of fire in Revelation 20, how is it that sin is seen outside the walls of "New Jerusalem" in Revelation 21 and 22?


{27} and nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life. Revelation 21:27 (NASB)


{15} Outside are the dogs and the sorcerers and the immoral persons and the murderers and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying. Revelation 22:15 (NASB)

Sin is being seen outside the walls of the New Jerusalem and new earth as being cast into the lake of fire right before the New Jerusalem and New Earth are ushered down from heaven when Jesus plants his feet on the Mt. of Olives and makes an end of all the abominations (sin) of this old world as these verses you have given just shows us of that which will be no more as the tempter and deceiver will be put away forever never to reign again.

 

[Stormcrow]

Rev. 20:
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

This is a 'matter to come' that has not yet been finalized.

I've been waiting patiently for you to say that it has already happened.

s

Funny. I don't see a single mention of sinners here in the lake of fire.

I do see them outside the city, however:

{12} "Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done. {13} "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end." {14} Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter by the gates into the city. {15} Outside are the dogs and the sorcerers and the immoral persons and the murderers and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying. Revelation 22:12-15 (NASB)

Outside the gates of the city is not synonymous here with being in the lake of fire.

And what's this? Christ says again in this context that He is "coming quickly." Just as He said this a few verses before:

{6} And he said to me, "These words are faithful and true"; and the Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets, sent His angel to show to His bond-servants the things which must soon take place. {7} "And behold, I am coming quickly. Blessed is he who heeds the words of the prophecy of this book." Revelation 22:6-7 (NASB)

Given the imminence of these events for John and the churches, prove by scripture Satan wasn't cast into the lake of fire with Christ's coming in judgment upon Jerusalem.

He was seen cast down to earth when the 70 returned, and then there's this:

{12} "For this reason, rejoice, O heavens and you who dwell in them. Woe to the earth and the sea, because the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, knowing that he has only a short time." Revelation 12:12 (NASB)

At the time of this writing, Satan had only a "short time" before he would be cast into the lake of fire. Define "short" in terms less than geologic time.

 

[smaller]

Funny. I don't see a single mention of sinners here in the lake of fire.

I do see them outside the city, however:

{12} "Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done. {13} "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end." {14} Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter by the gates into the city. {15} Outside are the dogs and the sorcerers and the immoral persons and the murderers and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying. Revelation 22:12-15 (NASB)

Yeah, kinda unlikely that the Lake of Fire would be in the city.

Outside the gates of the city is not synonymous here with being in the lake of fire.

Don't know why proximity location of the lake is all that important to the matter.

And what's this? Christ says again in this context that He is "coming quickly." Just as He said this a few verses before:

Hinging the destruction of Satan in the Lake of Fire in 70 a.d. based on the word 'short?' Peter tells us that short in Gods measure can be a very long time by our perception.

Given the imminence of these events for John and the churches, prove by scripture Satan wasn't cast into the lake of fire with Christ's coming in judgment upon Jerusalem.

He was seen cast down to earth when the 70 returned,

Jesus said He saw Satan cast down. The Word has always been. That casting down started at a minimum, in the Garden. And again, if you say Satan wasn't on earth prior to making that statement...gong....off the stage.

and then there's this:

{12} "For this reason, rejoice, O heavens and you who dwell in them. Woe to the earth and the sea, because the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, knowing that he has only a short time." Revelation 12:12 (NASB)

At the time of this writing, Satan had only a "short time" before he would be cast into the lake of fire. Define "short" in terms less than geologic time.

Oh, a statement that happened would be nice. Of course there are zero such statements. If you link the matter to Matt. 25 that would also require the judgment of people as well.

Saying the word 'short' means 70 a.d. destruction of satan is a leap of nothing there. There would certainly have been a few believers around yet to record the matter. Having your (continually unstated) position also requires a wipe out of a good portion of the N.T. scriptures regarding that bad actor. I'm surprised you don't work more on the two Gospel side of the ledger. It's much safer territory for full preterists.

s

 

[reba]

Some how in my head is the idea that the 'lake of fire' could be referring to the... what we might call dump the was burning out side the city limits. A place where some folks put the dead.


Notice i did say anything was certain so dont shoot me!

 

[Vic C.]

Some how in my head is the idea that the 'lake of fire' could be referring to the... what we might call dump the was burning out side the city limits. A place where some folks put the dead.


Notice i did say anything was certain so dont shoot me!

The Lake of Fire was a.k.a as... the Dead Sea:

http://www.askelm.com/prophecy/p100201.htm

 

[Lehigh3]

Preterists see verses that indirectly say that the existence of sin will continue "forever." Here are some of those verses:

Ps. 110:4: "Thou art a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek."

Since Christ is a Priest on behalf of sinners "forever," we can infer that sinners will exist on earth "forever" to enjoy the ministry of forgiveness of sins in Christ.

Rev. 14:6: "...the Everlasting Gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth..." (Rev. 14:6).

Since the Gospel, which is for sinners that dwell on the earth, is "everlasting," we can infer that sinners will be born on earth everlastingly to enjoy the blessings of the Gospel.

In Rev. 22:2, on "the new earth," we see "the Tree of life" that yields fruit every month, the "leaves" of which are "for the healing of the nations" (Rev. 22:2). This teaches us that in the new earth, "the nations" are in need of continual healing.

We must also infer from the above verses that the continued existence of sin in the "new earth" in no way implies the victory of sin. Nor does the continued existence of sin in the universe at all imply a "stalemate" between righteousness and sin. If it did, then we would be forced to say that God has as of yet won zero decisive victories over sin (except in Christ Himself), since sin still exists. The idea that the existence of sin in the universe implies the non-victory of righteousness in the universe is an existential philosophy that devalues all that has thus far been wrought by the death and resurrection of Christ.

It seems that many cannot be satisfied with anything less than a literal utopia that is characterized by absolute "behavioral errorlessness" throughout the entire universe (except for in the lake of fire). But does the existence of sin on Earth really imply an un-done-ness of God's purposes? God says that He created "vessels of wrath fitted to destruction" in order "that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy." Although sin exists, God is victorious over sin every day: "Every morning I will destroy all the wicked of the Land, so as to cut off from the city of the Lord all those who do iniquity" (Ps. 101:8).

God's "created order" is certainly not "the best of all possible worlds" for the unbelieving (if we define "best" as what best contributes to their blessedness and success). But it is the best of all possible worlds, "to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose" (Rom. 8:28).
We need only consider the conquering nature of Christ's kingdom.

"May his name endure forever; May his name increase as long as the sun shines...." (Ps. 72:17).

"There will be no end to the increase of His government or of peace, on the throne of David and over his kingdom, to establish it and to uphold it with justice and righteousness from then on and forevermore...." (Isa. 9:7). ~ (Preterist Q&As)

 

[Stormcrow]

The blessings of faith have always belonged to those of faith in God. Those who do not believe have always been "outside the city" in the literal sense (Old Covenant/old Jerusalem) but are welcomed into the city - whether Jew or Gentile - in the New.

Being "outside the city", therefore, has never been synonymous with being in the "lake of fire." The lake of fire was a place of eternal torment and suffering where the unjustified dead were sent.

{12} And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds. Revelation 20:12 (NASB)

{15} And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. Revelation 20:15 (NASB)

The dead are thrown into the lake of fire with the devil in Revelation 20, yet "outside the city", sin is seen to continue in chapters 21 and 22!

So the question remains: if all sin is of the devil, how does it persist after he is cast into the lake of fire? Remember: chapters 21 and 22 come after the Great White throne judgment. Not all are dead and not all those living are "inside the city." So why does sin persist???

What is this "city" where sin no longer reigns in it but where sin continues outside it?

 

[Stormcrow]

The Lake of Fire was a.k.a as... the Dead Sea:

http://www.askelm.com/prophecy/p100201.htm

Excellent article! Certainly explains the symbolism of the lake of fire as a place of eternal torment and suffering.

 

[smaller]

Preterists see verses that indirectly say that the existence of sin will continue "forever." Here are some of those verses:

Full preterist nonsense.

1 Corinthians 15:56
The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

Revelation 21:4
And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

Revelation 20:14
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

The second death is the death of the power of death. It will be NO MORE.

To say it already happened is malarkey.

1 Corinthians 15:24
Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

Full preterism would be well renamed full fantasy.

s

 

[Campolim]

Explaining Malachi chapter 3

Faith does not rule out the intelligence or knowledge. Let us seek the Lord
while he may be found.
Help us in this crusade against the mercenaries of faith.

Malachi 3/1-12
1 Behold, I send my messenger to prepare the way before me, and suddenly come to
his temple the Lord whom ye seek, and the messenger of the covenant, whom ye
delight in: behold, he cometh, saith the Lord of hosts.
(The messenger = John the Baptist) (Angel of the covenant = Jesus Christ)
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? And who shall stand when he appears?
For he is like a refiner's fire and like fullers' soap.
3 and will sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons
of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that the Lord will bring an offering
in righteousness.
(Purify the sons of Levi = Priests ) (they will bring to the Lord just supply =
Priests.)
4 And the offering of Judah and Jerusalem be pleasant unto the LORD, as in
ancient days, and as in former years.
(The offering of Judah and Jerusalem = All other tribes.
5 And I will come to you to court, and will be a swift witness against the
sorcerers, against adulterers, against those who swear falsely, against those
that oppress the hireling in his wages, the widow and the fatherless, and that
turn aside the right of the stranger, and fear not me, saith the LORD of hosts.
(I'll be swift witness against the sorcerers, adulterers, etc. .. against those
that oppress the workers' wages, oppress the widows and the fatherless, and
pervert the right of the foreigner. Who were they? = Priests )
6 For I am the LORD, I change not: therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
(God does not change, at his departure there was no failure so you (= priests),
sons (tribes) of Jacob are not consumed)
7 Since the days of your fathers ye are gone away from mine ordinances, and have
not kept; Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith the LORD of hosts,
but ye said, Wherein shall we return?
(You away from mine ordinances = Priests ) (But you say = priests)
8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me, ye say, Wherein have we robbed
thee? In tithes and offerings.
(Will a man rob God? Yet ye = Priests )
9 Ye are cursed with a curse, because they have robbed me, even this whole
nation.
(You are cursed, robbed me, even this whole nation = The priests, Levites, or
Israel).
10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine
house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I do not open you
the windows of heaven and pour you out a blessing, until there is room enough to
receive it.
(Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse = Temple) (For the sake of keeping
= food )
(Open the windows of heaven = rain )
11 And because of you rebuke the devourer, and he did not destroy the fruits of
your ground, and your vine in the field will not be barren, saith the LORD of
hosts.
(Because of you faithful = priest ) (devouring = pests of field)
12 And all nations shall call you blessed: for ye shall be a delightsome land,
saith the LORD of hosts.
(All the nations = of the world )
Is this the testimony of Israel care.

Note The priests were responsible for the orphans, widows and foreigners.
The tithes were annual or three years, and would be in food.
The priests had no inheritance in the family.
Because then the churches believe the right to collect tithes?
Matthew 23/23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe
mint, dill and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of law, justice,
mercy and faith: ought ye do these things, not undone.
(Scribes and Pharisees were Jews, and in that time were still in the
dispensation of law. Jesus had not died, the veil and the temple were still
there. Jesus rebuked them for lack of mercy, justice and faith). (The ordinances
of the law of the Torah were invalidated by the death of Jesus).
Matthew 10 / 8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out
demons: freely ye received, freely give.
Mark 11/15-18 They came to Jerusalem: and Jesus went into the temple, began to
cast out them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of
the changers and the seats of them that sold doves.
And would not suffer that any man should carry any vessel through the temple.
And he taught, saying, Is it not written, My house shall be called of all
nations the house of prayer? But you have made it a den of thieves.
And the scribes and chief priests heard it, when they sought to destroy him: for
they feared him, because the whole crowd was astonished at his doctrine.
I John 4 / 1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they
are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
II Peter 2 / 1 and there were also false prophets among the people, as among you
also there will be false teachers, who covertly introduce damnable heresies,
even denying the Lord that bought them, bringing upon themselves swift
destruction.

 

[Stormcrow]

3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men, and He will dwell among them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be among them, 4 and He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there will no longer be any death; there will no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain; the first things have passed away."
Revelation 21:3-4 (NASB)

Hmmm...so answer this: if there is to be no more death, why is there still sin? Just a few verses later, John writes this:

24 The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it. 25 In the daytime (for there will be no night there) its gates will never be closed; 26 and they will bring the glory and the honor of the nations into it; 27 and nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life. Revelation 21:24-27 (NASB)

So if sin is destroyed with the devil, and death is no more, where do the liars and abominations come from who are not allowed into the city???

They aren't in the lake of fire, because that's where the dead go. But those who sin - by definition - are not physically dead: the physically dead cannot sin!

You (smaller) are the one making the claim that all sin is of the devil and that when Christ returns all sin will be gone because the devil is destroyed.

Clearly, that is not the case if one carefully reads Revelation.

So again I ask: what is this city where sin is not allowed inside but persists outside?

It's not a hard question to answer if you're not married to one particular doctrine.

 

[smaller]

3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men, and He will dwell among them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be among them, 4 and He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there will no longer be any death; there will no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain; the first things have passed away."
Revelation 21:3-4 (NASB)

Hmmm...so answer this: if there is to be no more death, why is there still sin? Just a few verses later, John writes this:

24 The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it. 25 In the daytime (for there will be no night there) its gates will never be closed; 26 and they will bring the glory and the honor of the nations into it; 27 and nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life. Revelation 21:24-27 (NASB)

So if sin is destroyed with the devil, and death is no more, where do the liars and abominations come from who are not allowed into the city???

Uh, said multiple times now....in the 'Lake' they will be.

They aren't in the lake of fire, because that's where the dead go. But those who sin - by definition - are not physically dead: the physically dead cannot sin!

Revelation 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

You (smaller) are the one making the claim that all sin is of the devil and that when Christ returns all sin will be gone because the devil is destroyed.

Scripture makes the claim:

1 John 3:8
He that committeth sin is of the devil; -

When Perfection comes the devil and his minions are off to the Lake.

Matt. 25:
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Matthew 13:40
As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

70 a.d? lol

s

 

[Stormcrow]

shall have

Second death comes after the first. And not all sinners are dead when Satan is cast into the lake of fire.

That should be obvious from even a cursory reading of the text.

So again: what is this city where sin is not allowed inside but persists outside?

The answer is in the book of Hebrews and belies your claim.

 

[smaller]

Second death comes after the first. And not all sinners are dead when Satan is cast into the lake of fire.

The power of death ends in the Lake of FIRE. There will be 'no more' death.

End of death.

So again: what is this city where sin is not allowed inside but persists outside?

The matters and members in the Lake are not in the 'city.'

Why do you ask for a proximity that does not yet exist for a location of the 'city?'

Rev 21:
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

The answer is in the book of Hebrews and belies your claim.

Uh huh...who's claim?

Hebrews 13:14
For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come.

s

 

[Stormcrow]

14 Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter by the gates into the city. 15 Outside are the dogs and the sorcerers and the immoral persons and the murderers and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying. Revelation 22:14-15 (NASB)

Just trying to figure out here how Satan, after having been cast into the lake of fire, can continue to cause people to sin after they have died once, then twice and now reside in the lake of fire with him.

Do the "second dead" continue to sin while being punished for the thing that put them in eternal torment in the first place???

How do the physically dead continue to sin, and does Satan cause them to do it? That is what we are asked to believe by some here, and it doesn't pass the smell test!

 

[smaller]

14 Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter by the gates into the city. 15 Outside are the dogs and the sorcerers and the immoral persons and the murderers and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying. Revelation 22:14-15 (NASB)

Just trying to figure out here how Satan, after having been cast into the lake of fire, can continue to cause people to sin after they have died once, then twice and now reside in the lake of fire with him.

Do the "second dead" continue to sin while being punished for the thing that put them in eternal torment in the first place???

How do the physically dead continue to sin, and does Satan cause them to do it? That is what we are asked to believe by some here, and it doesn't pass the smell test!

They are 'ALL' in one despicable little place called the Lake of Fire.

Revelation 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire -

And they can all ply out their wares therein for a long long time.

s

 

[Stormcrow]

The power of death ends in the Lake of FIRE. There will be 'no more' death.

End of death.

Then there should be no more sin, either. John disagrees with you:

14 Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter by the gates into the city. 15 Outside are the dogs and the sorcerers and the immoral persons and the murderers and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying.
Revelation 22:14-15 (NASB)

Don't see these sinners in the lake of fire.

For here we do not have a lasting city, but we are seeking the city which is to come. Hebrews 13:14 (NASB)

You quoted that verse out of context. Here is the verse just before it:

13 So, let us go out to Him outside the camp, bearing His reproach. Hebrews 13:13 (NASB)

Now read the verse you cited in context:

For here we do not have a lasting city, but we are seeking the city which is to come. Hebrews 13:14 (NASB)

He's telling them to bear the cross of Christ in hopes of the city they will attain when they die. But in chapter 12, he's telling them they've already come to it!

22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to myriads of angels, 23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the Judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, 24 and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood, which speaks better than the blood of Abel. Hebrews 12:22-24 (NASB)

New Jerusalem is already here, and it was ushered in with the New Covenant, the mediator of which came back in judgment upon Jerusalem, judged those who died before His coming, cast Satan into the lake of fire, and brought the New Jerusalem - His bride (the church!) - to earth!

Sin still exists outside "the city" because not everyone has been brought into His kingdom! WE are the ones that are supposed to be bringing them in! That's why the kingdom of God was taken away from apostate Israel and given to the church!

There is eternal life "in the city." The Holy Spirit flows like living water "in the city." There is healing "in the city." There is everything the world longs for (the fruit of the Spirit) "in the city!"

If your church is not a place where people can come to find healing, joy, peace, comfort, and love, then your church needs to examine why it isn't BECAUSE THE PROMISES OF GOD FOR ALL THESE THINGS ARE HERE NOW "IN THE CITY" OF GOD - HIS CHURCH! AND CHRIST IS ITS HEAD!

Satan has no more power over us! His head was crushed at calvary and His "body" was dumped in the lake of fire shortly (within that generation) after, when that age - that world order - came to an end!

Why does sin persist "outside the city?" Because unregenerate humans still have a "sin nature" that causes them to sin! Mankind no more needs a devil to sin than birds need aircraft to fly! Sin is ingrained in the unregenerate heart and will be until Christ - or death - sets the sinner free of it.

If you are looking for a 1,500 cubic mile city to appear in the sky above Jerusalem, you're missing the point of what "New Jerusalem" is.

 

[smaller]

Then there should be no more sin, either. John disagrees with you:

14 Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter by the gates into the city. 15 Outside are the dogs and the sorcerers and the immoral persons and the murderers and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying.
Revelation 22:14-15 (NASB)

Don't see these sinners in the lake of fire.

What, you need every sin there is to believe it's all headed to the Lake, outside the city? lol No sense to keep repeating yourself on this one SC. It's not going to help. This is what? Your third run on the same question?

For here we do not have a lasting city, but we are seeking the city which is to come. Hebrews 13:14 (NASB)

You quoted that verse out of context.

Seemed a direct hit to me. Quoting a scripture isn't out of context. What are you thinking?

Here is the verse just before it:

13 So, let us go out to Him outside the camp, bearing His reproach. Hebrews 13:13 (NASB)

Now read the verse you cited in context:

For here we do not have a lasting city, but we are seeking the city which is to come. Hebrews 13:14 (NASB)

He's telling them to bear the cross of Christ in hopes of the city they will attain when they die. But in chapter 12, he's telling them they've already come to it!

The dialog was about 'the city' until the plate of crow came forth.

Bottom line with full preterism is this.

A. Sin is not going to exist forever.

B. Satan has not been sent to the Lake of Fire.

C. Sin is of the devil.

Full preterism requires a massive eradication of text. Doesn't work or compute.

That balance of your post is pretty much the same ol same ol. Not really worth picking at those bones.

As for Satan no longer having power over you? lol

The trials of the tempter are exactly for the purposes of testing our faith. You look at scriptures where Paul had a devil put upon him and somehow think that was not real, or that it went away in 70 a.d.

There are enemies. The remain today. And they can't be seen:

Ephesians 6:12
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Jesus was Perfectly Correct when He advised us of this matter:

Mark 4:15
And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

So, Stormcrow. Do you have sin?

s

 

[Stormcrow]

A. Sin is not going to exist forever.

B. Satan has not been sent to the Lake of Fire.

C. Sin is of the devil.

All of these are merely assumptions and assertions based on an unscriptural interpretation, namely "futurism": a doctrine that utterly devalues the redemptive power of Christ's sacrifice and keeps people bound to this notion that a vanquished foe still has power over them.

Your view keeps people in bondage, which is yet another reason why I cannot and will not accept it anymore.

As to whether sin persists in any of us, I'll let Paul and John address that:

{17} Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 2 Corinthians 5:17 (KJV)

Are you a new creature?

You like to quote John. Maybe you missed this one:

{9} No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. {10} By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother. 1 John 3:9-10 (NASB)

We all have sin, which is why Christ died. The problem is, you think the Christian is still bound to it, which is why you keep quoting this verse:

{10} If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us. 1 John 1:10 (NASB)

John never said the Christian would not sin. In fact, he wrote this to assure us that our forgiveness is assured if we do sin:

{9} If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9 (NASB)

The distinction you cannot seem to grasp is the fact that he who continues in sin is not born of God. Must I quote the verse again?

{9} No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

This is consistent with what the writer of Hebrews wrote:

{26} For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, Hebrews 10:26 (NASB)

Now, if you want to keep saying that Satan was not defeated at the cross, that he continues as the "god of this world", that he was not thrown into the lake of fire, that Christians sin because they are still bound to sin by the devil, then you are - in fact - teaching a far greater heresy than any you have ever accused me of, because your view keeps people looking for the hope of freedom from sin when Christ has already done everything He needed to to free them!

Therefore, speak only for yourself when you say "we" are not freed from sin. To denigrate the cross in such a manner is beneath even you.