If God Loved everyone !

[Orion]

He loves you Orion. I honestly believe that.

From the verses posted in here, though, . . . it would seem to not be the case, Rick. Seems that I must first love him, THEN he will return that love.

But for the sake of argument, let's say that he actually does. What if the only source of information about him was in a book that I find problems with, to the point that I cannot "love" this deity? Would that be an issue of mine, an issue of God's, or an issue of those who may have gotten God completely wrong? It could be none of the above, of course, . . . or could be all three. Never the less, I still must insist upon the fact that a book written by men, thousands of years ago, isn't sufficient for me to consider it enough. Plus, it still isn't personally directed to me, specifically, but to a general public, . . . "whomever cares to pick it up and read the words".

 

[fullgospel]

You should probably do a study on the word Love in greek or hebrew or aramaic depending on what book you are reading, then put it in context. divide the word correctly and you will find truth. God is Love

 

[savedbygrace57]

So, as a parent, . . . do you refuse to love your infant, baby, toddler, young child, . . . until it is old enough to return a valid love back to you? If you don't, . . . why? If your baby [unfortunately] had a birth defect that never allowed him/her to acknowledge you, never was able to understand your love, . . . would that matter to you?

All men are not Gods children..and He is not their Father jn 8:

44Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

vs 42

42Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

Now, do you believe Jesus here ? Does jesus seem to indicate that these did not have God as their Father ?

Exactly.
We are adopted. There is much scripture on this point, another topic though.

Sorry, the devils children or seed is never adopted by God..you cant prove that by scripture..

 

[savedbygrace57]

Ps 5:5

5The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

Notice this verse, Not merely the works of iniquity are here stated to be hated, but to include the workers of iniquity are designated hated..

Now this cannot be with the chosen of God, because even while they are sinners, God Loved them..

rom 5:8

But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Who are the we ? rom 8:

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

31What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?

32He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

33Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

 

[Vic C.]

Study Biblical Theology for a while. One thing God communicates to us is nothing HE does is conditional to anything, I must stress, anything, we do. Nothing. HE is not dependent of us at all. He doesn't need us for anything but HE does want something from us. Any good Christian student of the Bible knows what HE wants.

We don't love Him first; the Bible states this:

1 John 4:19 We love Him, because He first loved us.

But whether or not HE loves everyone shouldn't be the concern. Be concerned about your relationship with Him. We sometimes over-analyze and think too much about the things He has done and then question His motives... His love for mankind. Is He here to glorify us or are we here to glorify God?

You see, that's it; it's about Him, not us. There's no "me" in "Kingdom".

 

[Orion]

From what others have posted here, the 1John 4:19 statement could still ONLY be for those whom he knew would "love him". . . . . not the rest of us idolitrous pagan children of the devil. Okay, that's fine. So, I'd still like to have the following answered, from a previous post of mine:

Regardless, is it in your rights to take someone else's children and beat them over and over again for the rest of their life, and would that make you happy doing so? If not, why?

As a side note, . . . .
[quote:14d2li1d]He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Why would God make such a being? If he creates nothing "imperfect", why would he make a being to be a murdering liar? [/quote:14d2li1d]

 

[(THE)]

From what others have posted here, the 1John 4:19 statement could still ONLY be for those whom he knew would "love him". . . . . not the rest of us idolitrous pagan children of the devil. Okay, that's fine. So, I'd still like to have the following answered, from a previous post of mine:

Regardless, is it in your rights to take someone else's children and beat them over and over again for the rest of their life, and would that make you happy doing so? If not, why?

As a side note, . . . .
[quote:13fl0ce1]He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Why would God make such a being? If he creates nothing "imperfect", why would he make a being to be a murdering liar?

[/quote:13fl0ce1]

GOd did not Create a Murderer/Liar.....

God created a beutiful Cherub/angel,,,,whos Job was to protect the mercy seat (Christ seat) But instead of protecting it Lucifer wanted it for himself...(pride)

SO Lucifer rebelled and caused a war in heaven.....

 

[Orion]

You must have missed my post about this. . . .

I will rephrase a bit:

It doesn't say "he was eventually a murderer/liar near the beginning". Are we not supposed to take the word as it stands? "A murderer from the beginning" seems pretty straight forward.

 

[GodspromisesRyes]

Just because God is love, does not mean God must love everyone and everything. The word of God is clear that God does not love everyone and it is clear who and what God does love.


The problem with this topic is that most must believe that God loves everyone because they must prop up thier other false doctrines. They often do not want to believe in predestination, or election, they often do not want to believe this this is Gods plan and this is not a plan b we are living in, They often do not want to believe that God made lucifer, with this intention and that it is God who uses the enemies of us to fulfill His will etc. etc. etc..

Because people want to believe that God wants every single person saved, and that we all have " free will" to be saved, they need also to believe that God loves everyone.

 

[Orion]

So, GodspromisesRyes, according to what you just posted, . . . are you good with what you're saying?

 

[savedbygrace57]

Just because God is love, does not mean God must love everyone and everything. The word of God is clear that God does not love everyone and it is clear who and what God does love.


The problem with this topic is that most must believe that God loves everyone because they must prop up thier other false doctrines. They often do not want to believe in predestination, or election, they often do not want to believe this this is Gods plan and this is not a plan b we are living in, They often do not want to believe that God made lucifer, with this intention and that it is God who uses the enemies of us to fulfill His will etc. etc. etc..

Because people want to believe that God wants every single person saved, and that we all have " free will" to be saved, they need also to believe that God loves everyone.

Nice Post..

 

[Vic C.]

From my experience with Universalists, the idea of people having free will and the idea that God will reconcile with (save) all is like mixing oil and water. They basically hinge their belief that God is Love and incapable of damning or perishing anyone for eternity.

Just an observation and not meant to bring into this a UR discussion, which isn't allowed anyway.

Because people want to believe that God wants every single person saved, and that we all have " free will" to be saved, they need also to believe that God loves everyone.

 

[savedbygrace57]

After looking at the scripture I have provided, it should be clear to any reasonable thinking person, that Jn 3 16 does not mean what professing christendom says it means or wish it means.." For God so Loved the World" This cannot mean the entire human race, which would include all mankind from Adam to the end of world history. What about those before Christ, who Paul says were without God and without hope eph 2:12

That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

This verse is very instructive, it gives us to understand that millions were in the world without any hope of salvation, they had no God of salvation. yes they had a God as Creator, but they remained under His Just condemnation as such described in rom 1,2..

You see, the vessels of wrath, those being fitted for destruction rom 9:22, have God as a Creator, but their creation was not for a merciful purpose for themselves in salvation as that of the vessels of mercy..

Now for those who were in the world without hope and without God, how in the world could it be argued that God Loved them ? This truth here is enough to overturn the misconception that God Loved all mankind..

 

[Orion]

So, . . . having said that, . . . how in the freakin' world could you actually love a god like that? REALLY consider what you're saying. How moral/ethical is it to create "vessels for destruction"????????? :o

I'll answer it for you. . . . . . . .It ISN'T!!!

 

[Veritas]

Sorry, the devils children or seed is never adopted by God..you cant prove that by scripture..

..and what about Peter? Matthew 16:23 and Mark 8:33

 

[savedbygrace57]

Sorry, the devils children or seed is never adopted by God..you cant prove that by scripture..

..and what about Peter? Matthew 16:23 and Mark 8:33

Peter was not a child of the devil, He was influenced by Him, but Jesus was speaking beyond peter to satan who had influenced His thinking..

Jesus said in jn 6 70 that one was a devil, meaning judas, not two..read it for yourself..

 

[savedbygrace57]

orion says:

How moral/ethical is it to create "vessels for destruction"?????????

rom 9:

Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

21Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

22What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

 

[Rick W]

=========================
savedbygrace57 wrote:

So, as a parent, . . . do you refuse to love your infant, baby, toddler, young child, . . . until it is old enough to return a valid love back to you? If you don't, . . . why? If your baby [unfortunately] had a birth defect that never allowed him/her to acknowledge you, never was able to understand your love, . . . would that matter to you?

All men are not Gods children..and He is not their Father jn 8:

44Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

vs 42

42Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

Now, do you believe Jesus here ? Does jesus seem to indicate that these did not have God as their Father ?

Exactly.
We are adopted. There is much scripture on this point, another topic though.

Sorry, the devils children or seed is never adopted by God..you cant prove that by scripture..

=========================




Maybe you misunderstood what I'm agreeing to or I failed to respond with more clarity.


We as believers are adopted.

Gal 4:5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
Gal 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
Gal 4:7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.


Rom 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
Rom 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

Eph 3:6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

 

[Orion]

orion says:

How moral/ethical is it to create "vessels for destruction"?????????

rom 9:

Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

21Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

22What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

God didn't "form me"! I came about due to biological inputs from two people. And yes, we CAN reply-est against a god who does what is immoral/unethical! What makes you think that "creating vessels for destruction" is moral/ethical??

 

[Vic C.]

Orion, don't get too bent over the Romans 9 passage. Paul is using a passage from Jer 18 to make a point. If you read Jer 18:3-6, the so-called "vessels of destruction" were actually a marred vessel which the Potter reformed into a good one. It's an analogy showing the true sovereignty of God.

What I take away from this is not that He makes vessels for the sole purpose for destruction, but that He is sovereign and can take marred vessels like us and shape us into a vessel worthy of His Grace and to be used for His glory.