If I fornicated, does that mean God now wants me to marry the other person?

[pocketmerlin]

Another topic that was posted got me thinking about this, and I replied to it and only received silence, so I figured I'd start a new thread since it's not the same as the other topic anyway.

The scripture that was brought to my attention was Exodus 22:16: "If a man seduces a virgin who is not pledged to be married and lies with her, he must pay the bride-price, and she shall be his wife. If her father absolutely refuses to give her to him, he must still pay the bride-price for virgins."

Four years ago I got way too intimate with my high school girlfriend at our homecoming dance, and though we never had full-on sex, we participated in a form of dancing known as "grinding," which is kind of like a mimicking of sex while wearing clothes.

Do you think God still expects those who engage in premarital sexual acts like this to marry the person? And does my behavior count as "lying with" the girl (or would that only be full-on sex)?

I realize we are not technically under the law, but it seems like one could deduce that God is saying that this is the right way to "make right" what one has done. Even though we are not under the force of the laws in Exodus that talk about making restitution when one has stolen something, I think we'd all agree that if we stole something, the right thing to do would be to give it back...so why would this be different? I know in our culture this seems absurd...is it just then the depravity of our culture is blinding us the fact that this could be the right way to handle things?

We ended up breaking up about a month after that dance, and we broke up because she said she wasn't really that excited about the relationship anymore. Do you think that would be enough in the spirit of the father's rejection anyway to say I shouldn't worry about having to marry her (because if she didn't want to have a relationship with me, naturally her father shouldn't and wouldn't have forced her to marry me)? I also think about whether it was the fact that I may have led her into too much sexual intimacy that made her uncomfortable with the relationship and that was why she wasn't interested anymore.

What do you think of all this? Also, I should add that this is not me scheming up a way to get back with this girl and use the Bible to defend myself. I have long since moved on emotionally and it would not be a very comfortable conversation to have with this girl, I would much rather prefer to let it go and move on. I'm just trying to understand whether God expects me to have taken a particular course of action, and whether I'm doing wrong by moving on with my life.

 

[Knotical]

You mentioned this occurred four years ago. Are you still seeing the girl in question, or has she and/or you moved on? No, we are no longer "under the law", however, we are still required to live a Christ-like life.

Personally, even though "dirty dancing" is not actually sex (intercourse), you are still pushing the boundaries of what you should be participating in as an unmarried person.

Really, the answer to your question comes down to if you are still "seeing" the girl in question, if you love her, and you feel that this is the person God wants you to spend the rest of your life with.

Does any of this apply to your situation?

 

[Gordon]

I don't think you would be able to do this even if you dishonored her in some way. I think you need to understand women better. You don't need to be apologetic about your sexuality. You just need integrity not to have sex before marriage. Insecurity is a turn off with women. Being ashamed of your hairline or your sexuality won't help you. I was a virgin not by choice for a long time then I studied female sexuality and went out trying to get women for several years. All very stupid but I do think you need to understand women are sexual creatures and sex inside marriage isn't a sin and being extremely nice and respectful with women because that is what they say they want isn't the best approach. Being authentic and having integrity and being poised and having a clue what you are doing is the way to go. I'm just trying to help you out and maybe you can benefit from my stupidity.

 

[Slider]

Why are you bothering yourself and us with this? I mean, many hear will make a big "to-do" about it, but you sinned. Move on! You did something in the flesh, and God isn't really looking at that so why are you?


I'm a 40 something year old and have never cheated on my wife.... Does that mean I haven't looked? Of course not. Thus, according to Jesus, I'm guilty of adultry! I understand that, but also understand that I'm under the blood covenent. So quit focusing on your flesh actions and even your thoughts... Focus on the Bible, and if your flesh sins, its just your flesh! Its not your inward man, so shrug it off.

Let's face it... None of us will ever be "not guilty of sin". But we have grace! All things are lawful, my brother! They aren't all expedient though.... Learn from your mistakes, and trust in the blood of Jesus.

 

[pocketmerlin]

To some of the responses...I know there is grace, and I know I sinned, I figured both of those out a while ago...it's just a matter of determining what grace should compel me to do. For example, Jesus said that to divorce your wife for anything other than adultery is sin, and that to remarry afterward is adultery. So if someone divorced his wife for something trivial, then realized it was sin and confessed it, he would be forgiven, but does that mean he gets to just move on and marry whoever? Not according to Jesus. Same thing with stealing. If you steal and confess, you're forgiven, but you're still supposed to return what you took.

 

[handy]

It is our Lord Himself Who teaches that there is the "spirit" of the law and the "letter" of the law.

Now, the law that you refer to... we Christians are not under it anyway. It was for the Israelites and it was the civil code of their nation.

However, we Christians should always be mindful of the spirit of the OT law because when we understand it, it becomes helpful for us as a moral code.

So, what was the spirit of Exodus 22:16? Well, if a girl lost her virginity before marriage, she basically lost all status in her society. She was robbed of the ability to make a good marriage which would, in turn, secure her place in society. This was why, if the father refused to give the man the virgin as a wife, the man still owed the bride price, as a way for the woman to have some kind of assets.

While there still are places in this world where women are so subjugated to men that sex before marriage can ruin her chances at any kind of decent life.... 21st century America isn't one of them (thank goodness!!!).

Fornication is still a sin but you didn't fornicate with this girl. You just allowed lustful thoughts and actions to rule you for a while. Repenting of those thoughts and actions, asking forgiveness of both God and the girl and setting your mind to be much more respectful of girls in the future is really all you need do to set things right.

If you had fornicated with the young woman, you still would not be obligated to marry her (and don't buy the very oft repeated lie that sex automatically means you are married to this girl... that's a ridiculous interpretation of Scriptures that I for one am having a harder and harder time countering with even a modicum of patience ).

If you had fornicated, then yes, asking forgiveness of both God and the girl... and repenting of the action by keeping yourself from repeating it and God does promise forgiveness and restoration.

 

[Slider]

Grace doesn't need compelling, nor does it need action. It's a free gift! Repent? Ok, sure... But not many know how to repent. Repent from this and move on! Now if the lady ends up pregnent, do the right thing...

Jesus said what he did to show us that we can't EVER keep the law. If you so much as lust after a woman, you are guilty.... There aren't a lot of Christians who will admit this, but that pretty much condemns us all. Learn from it, my friend, but move on.

 

[Gordon]

Sorry my reply was not very Christian. I just think lustful thoughts and stuff are between you and God. If you told this woman who was not excited about you I'm sorry I grinded with you years ago please take me back it wouldn't go well. There has to be some realistic Christian view of sexuality.

 

[Obadiah]

It is our Lord Himself Who teaches that there is the "spirit" of the law and the "letter" of the law.

Now, the law that you refer to... we Christians are not under it anyway. It was for the Israelites and it was the civil code of their nation.

However, we Christians should always be mindful of the spirit of the OT law because when we understand it, it becomes helpful for us as a moral code.

So, what was the spirit of Exodus 22:16? Well, if a girl lost her virginity before marriage, she basically lost all status in her society. She was robbed of the ability to make a good marriage which would, in turn, secure her place in society. This was why, if the father refused to give the man the virgin as a wife, the man still owed the bride price, as a way for the woman to have some kind of assets.

While there still are places in this world where women are so subjugated to men that sex before marriage can ruin her chances at any kind of decent life.... 21st century America isn't one of them (thank goodness!!!).

Fornication is still a sin but you didn't fornicate with this girl. You just allowed lustful thoughts and actions to rule you for a while. Repenting of those thoughts and actions, asking forgiveness of both God and the girl and setting your mind to be much more respectful of girls in the future is really all you need do to set things right.

If you had fornicated with the young woman, you still would not be obligated to marry her (and don't buy the very oft repeated lie that sex automatically means you are married to this girl... that's a ridiculous interpretation of Scriptures that I for one am having a harder and harder time countering with even a modicum of patience ).

If you had fornicated, then yes, asking forgiveness of both God and the girl... and repenting of the action by keeping yourself from repeating it and God does promise forgiveness and restoration.

Wow, talk about someone reading my mind! Handy has said exactly what I was thinking.

PocketMerlin, you are not understanding the context and reasoning behind the verse you cited, nor are you understanding what the word "fornication" means. (Well, maybe you are now after reading the posts here...) Yeah, maybe you pushed the envelope to far as far as subjecting yourself to temptation is concerned, but that is an envelope that only you and God can define for you. If when you and she did your dirty dancing, if you truly believed you were sinning at the time and went ahead and did it anyway, then your are guilty of being willing to go against what you truly believed God was telling you at the time. You should ask His forgiveness for that. (The act in itself may not be specifically prohibited in scripture for New Testament Christians, but your willingness to defy God is.) But He will forgive you and you can just move on. You did not fornicate. You did not remove the woman's virginity. (Do you even know for a fact she was a virgin at the time? These days it's a valid question.) You are not subject to the ancient Jewish civil code, and there isn't even any practical reason you should be since our society doesn't buy and sell women as property. You do not owe her marriage or owe her or her father any compensation.