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If the pure in heart shall see god...

Fish Catcher Jim said:
bluegirl
Karl

Hello,
I was able to read your reply Karl to blue girl and her reply back to you this morning and I saw the direction it was going, so I thought I would try to explain what I am saying with a different approach.

To understand this and really the entire written word of God you must get away from using a natural understanding or simply rationalizing the scriptures with your own knowledge or under standing if you intend to grow in the Spirit of God or Grow your spirit man. This was not said to be directed at you but for any one who reads this....

Ok the first few chapters of Genesis settle the fact the Jesus did die spiritually. Not just physical death but spiritual death as well. If you will stick with me and read through this, I do believe you will begin to see things more in the truth of what i am saying...

I am going to show you that physical death and spiritual death is the true penalty for sin.

It is clear in Genesis 2:17 When God said to Adam in the garden of eden, "In the day that thou eatest thereof [of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil] thou shalt surely die." God was not referring to the fact that Adam would die physically as soon as he ate of the tree of good and evil. Adam lived for another 930 years.

Genesis 2:17 KJV.......But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

See the death that God was talking about is in fact "spiritual death". It is the inward death that takes place when a spiritual being is separated from God.
See That's what "Spiritual Death" is.....it is "Separation From GOD"
Think about it for a minute....Is this not what Adam experienced the moment he sinned ? Of course it is, Adam was immediately cut off from fellowship with the Father, and the light of God's life and Glory within him was snuffed out.

Ok now look at this please.....
In order for Jesus to become OUR SUBSTITUTE, He had to go through the same kind of separation. He had to die not just a physically but spiritually and descend into hell to suffer the whole penalty of sin.

Now ask your self this question and think for a moment on this question.....

1. How many deaths will an UN_Saved person suffer ?

The answer is Two....First one is physically or the body...The second one is spiritually for to be un saved you therefore are separated from God for eternity. That is how you get into hell and the only way a human being will ever get into hell is to be separated from God. Funny thing here, this is why Jesus went through all this so we would not have to...

Not only did Jesus go to hell, He sank to the deepest, darkest part of it to suffer everything that was necessary on our behalf.

Scriptures verify it again and again . They tell us that He descended into the deep or the bottomless pit before He was brought up from the dead.

Romans 10:7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? ( that is to bring up Christ again from the dead )

Acts 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that His soul was not left in Hell, neither His flesh did see corruption.

(( Notice it is spoken of His soul and flesh...Not one word about the Spirit of God )))

Psalm 18 which does paint a pretty detailed prophetic picture of what Jesus went through between the cross and the throne, declares. "The sorrow of hell compassed me about; the snares of death prevented me" ( V5 )

Another point in this..........When Jesus was agonised in the Garden of Gethsemane when He said, "Father , if it be possible, let this cup pass from me....He was NOT sweating drops of blood over the fact of his body dying.
That was not the major thing He was facing.......He dreaded and felt so much sorrow was the fact that He was going to be separated from His Father and going into hell on behalf of man kind.

He knew that no man ever went into hell and got out, no man ever died spiritually and then made spiritually alive again. BUT His love for the Father and His love for us, He said this is the reason I came....Thank God !!

You have to understand that Jesus was made sin for every man kind. This meant every wicked thought and action from adams fall until God calls it done was on Jesus. Every single wicked and perverse and in human sin was on Jesus. NO HUMAN BEING has ever or could ever sin enough to carry what Jesus had on Him when He gave up the spirit.. It was the sin from adam to the end that crippled Him and deformed Him and made Him unrecognisable.

This is why Jesus had to have the spiritual death or separation from God. The Spirit of God could hold NO Sin. There is NO way in any way, shape or form that Jesus could have been made sin for us with the Spirit of God in Him.

I hope this allows you to understand what I am saying.
Have a wonderful week !!
Jim
Click to expand...
I appreciate your response. I guess in the end it is not an issue where I need to agree. All that matters is that I have accepted Jesus as my savior. :)
 
The verses about jesus "being in hell" can actually be translated grave instead of hell. Jesus went to the grave, but the grave had no power. He was dead, but now is risen.

When he gave up the spirit, that didn't say he spiritually died. It said his spirit was taken. Physical death is when the spirit leaves the body.

God is Spirit. Jesus was 100% god and 100% man. The hypostatic union. For Jesus to die spiritually means that that he ceased to exist and is not eternal. That is also to say is divine nature died. We are not divine. We parake in HIS divine nature. So then why did his divinity have to die?
 
YosefHayim said:
The verses about jesus "being in hell" can actually be translated grave instead of hell. Jesus went to the grave, but the grave had no power. He was dead, but now is risen.

When he gave up the spirit, that didn't say he spiritually died. It said his spirit was taken. Physical death is when the spirit leaves the body.

God is Spirit. Jesus was 100% god and 100% man. The hypostatic union. For Jesus to die spiritually means that that he ceased to exist and is not eternal. That is also to say is divine nature died. We are not divine. We parake in HIS divine nature. So then why did his divinity have to die?
Click to expand...

Ok so if the spirit was taken......lets see the word taken could be seen as gone, not there any more.
Lets look at it this way.....Before a person is born again they have a spirit in them....This spirit will end up in hell unless they become born again and the spirit of God is then put into them.

You have got to look at more then one translation and more then the NT to grasp all of this. You can not use a natural understanding and understand the truth of God's word.

Jesus was NOT God and man the entire time. Until you get a revelation that Jesus truly did go into hell, well you wont ever understand anything else on this......
Thanks for you thoughts and have a blessed week
Jim
 
Fish Catcher Jim said:
Ok so if the spirit was taken......lets see the word taken could be seen as gone, not there any more.
Lets look at it this way.....Before a person is born again they have a spirit in them....This spirit will end up in hell unless they become born again and the spirit of God is then put into them.

You have got to look at more then one translation and more then the NT to grasp all of this. You can not use a natural understanding and understand the truth of God's word.

Jesus was NOT God and man the entire time. Until you get a revelation that Jesus truly did go into hell, well you wont ever understand anything else on this......
Thanks for you thoughts and have a blessed week
Jim
Click to expand...

There's nothin to suggest that his spirit was "gone". There's plenty to suggest that his Spirit was taken by the father.

Jesus said "before Abraham was, I am." He was saying "before abraham was, Ehyeh (Asher Ehyeh)".

Yahweh said "I am the first and the last, there are none beside me".

Jesus said "I am the first and the last".

Jesus never stopped being God.
 
YosefHayim said:
There's nothin to suggest that his spirit was "gone". There's plenty to suggest that his Spirit was taken by the father.

Jesus said "before Abraham was, I am." He was saying "before abraham was, Ehyeh (Asher Ehyeh)".

Yahweh said "I am the first and the last, there are none beside me".

Jesus said "I am the first and the last".
Jesus never stopped being God.
Click to expand...

Hmm , Interesting Brother.
Well the word of God never returns void....so I will leave it that. I did my part.
 
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