If we're Bible believing Christians why do some of us argue the Bible isn't to be believed when it says....

[Honey]

1. *Salvation is Eternal
2. *God calls women to ministry
3. *We can never lose our eternal life
4. *________________________insert your favorite here.

 

[Willie T]

Unfortunately, the Bible "says" as we, individually, happen to believe.

 

[Eugene]

4. * Rom 14:3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not;
and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth:
for God hath received him.

 

[Free]

1. *Salvation is Eternal
2. *God calls women to ministry
3. *We can never lose our eternal life
4. *________________________insert your favorite here.

Because when one considers the totality of what the Bible says on a given topic, it is hardly ever clear. It isn’t a case of the Bible not being believed, it’s that what we believe the Bible to be saying is different from others.

 

[Honey]

Unfortunately, the Bible "says" as we, individually, happen to believe.

Subjective personal interpretation then?

Because when one considers the totality of what the Bible says on a given topic, it is hardly ever clear. It isn’t a case of the Bible not being believed, it’s that what we believe the Bible to be saying is different from others.

I would agree.
Christianity is monotheist. One God. How then do we explain the one God over all things inspiring his word to be interpreted as differently by each one who reads it. As you have observed?

 

[Papa Zoom]

One of my favorite things to say is that "The Bible doesn't say anything." That's because WE infer from the text. It really boils down to what brother Free said here: http://christianforums.net/Fellowsh...o-be-believed-when-it-says.74099/post-1419620

That said, there are certain things we must agree on. Otherwise we stray out of Orthodoxy. The Nature of Christ and the death and physical resurrection of Jesus. That Jesus was/is the God/man. I'm sure we can add to this list. But my point is that there are essentials and then there are non-essentials to the Faith.

 

[Free]

I would agree.
Christianity is monotheist. One God. How then do we explain the one God over all things inspiring his word to be interpreted as differently by each one who reads it. As you have observed?

I don't think that God necessarily, nor always, inspires "his word to be interpreted" (if I have understood your statement correctly), which is why it is interpreted differently.

It's a combination of factors. There is always personal bias involved, which can be caused by several factors itself; sometimes people are just unskilled in proper biblical interpretation, not knowing proper hermeneutics and such; sometimes people don't use their reasoning as well as they should; sometimes people reject God's main way of teaching--through teachers, which includes all manner of study aids. A lot of that results in poor, shallow study.

One of my favorite things to say is that "The Bible doesn't say anything." That's because WE infer from the text. It really boils down to what brother Free said here: http://christianforums.net/Fellowsh...o-be-believed-when-it-says.74099/post-1419620

That said, there are certain things we must agree on. Otherwise we stray out of Orthodoxy. The Nature of Christ and the death and physical resurrection of Jesus. That Jesus was/is the God/man. I'm sure we can add to this list. But my point is that there are essentials and then there are non-essentials to the Faith.

Quite right.

 

[Willie T]

Subjective personal interpretation then?

I would agree.
Christianity is monotheist. One God. How then do we explain the one God over all things inspiring his word to be interpreted as differently by each one who reads it. As you have observed?

Well, do you believe as the Catholics believe? The JW's? The Mormons? The Westboro Baptists? The SDA's?

If you follow Calvin, do you believe as the Armenians believe? Or, vice versa?

No, though all of us would like to believe the Bible can be interpreted only one way, and that it is us who have that one correct view.... in actuality, it just ain't so........... Even if we DO label all the others "Heretics."

 

[Runner]

Subjective personal interpretation then?

I would agree.
Christianity is monotheist. One God. How then do we explain the one God over all things inspiring his word to be interpreted as differently by each one who reads it. As you have observed?

Willie T and Free have hit the nail on the head. To your follow-up question, there could be a number of answers. If you believe the Bible is entirely inspired by God, I don't see any plausible answer except "This variety is what God intended." He intended for believers to wrestle with life's issues and what his word has to say about them. He didn't intend to hand us all the answers on a platter. The "answer" for one believer may not be exactly the same as the "answer" for another believer. I do think the Bible speaks to each believer in terms of that believer's needs. I find this troubling only to the extent that we believe our interpretation is the ONLY one and everyone else's is WRONG.

 

[Willie T]

Again, it is sad, but "Orthodoxy" only means: As is 'traditionally' accepted. And that honestly does not make something true. Jesus constantly mentioned "traditional" views when He said "You have heard it said", and then went on to say: "But, I tell you......"

 

[Free]

Again, it is sad, but "Orthodoxy" only means: As is 'traditionally' accepted. And that honestly does not make something true. Jesus xonstantly mentioned "traditional" views, and went on to say: "But, I tell you......"

While it doesn't make something true, one had better have very solid reasons for rejecting orthodox Christian belief (the deity of Jesus and his literal, physical resurrection, for example). Hence why Mormons and JWs are not Christians.

As Papa Zoom rightly pointed out, there are things necessary to believe for one to be a Christian, but there are other things which I believe God really does want us to wrestle with. It's the process that matters with those things, not necessarily the conclusion.

 

[Willie T]

While it doesn't make something true, one had better have very solid reasons for rejecting orthodox Christian belief (the deity of Jesus and his literal, physical resurrection, for example). Hence why Mormons and JWs are not Christians.

As Papa Zoom rightly pointed out, there are things necessary to believe for one to be a Christian, but there are other things which I believe God really does want us to wrestle with. It's the process that matters with those things, not necessarily the conclusion.

Very true, all you said. However, the criteria and encompassing theology many of us (our denominations) label "necessary to believe" probably places one heckuva strain on the original message Jesus taught.

 

[Free]

Very true, all you said. However, the criteria and encompassing theology many of us ( our denominations) label "necessary to believe" probably places one heckuva strain on the original message Jesus taught.

True. It is when the non-essentials are made essential that things rapidly fall apart, although there is even some disagreement on what is essential and what is not. But, for the most part, there are things which have been historically held to by practically all Christians, as you know--creation of and fall of man, monotheism, deity of Jesus, his physical death and resurrection, his return, etc.

 

[Eugene]

How then do we explain the one God over all things inspiring his word to be interpreted as differently by each one who reads it. As you have observed?

Is a child weaned from milk? And then as faith progresses from taking in the word, we can grow from good will of God, and from there to the acceptable will of God, and finally to the perfect will of God (Rom 12:2). It’s correct that we all don’t read things the same.

Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.

Isa 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

I just posted this following scripture on another reply, but does God receive them that believe they should only certain foods, and also them that believe they can eat everything? (Rom 14:3)

 

[Willie T]

True. It is when the non-essentials are made essential that things rapidly fall apart, although there is even some disagreement on what is essential and what is not. But, for the most part, there are things which have been historically held to by practically all Christians, as you know--creation of and fall of man, monotheism, deity of Jesus, his physical death and resurrection, his return, etc.

And, interestingly, if you take only the specific things Jesus ever spoke of as being necessary for belief in Him, there are likely a good dozen (or more) "requirements" the different denominations lay on people to 'allow' them to be Christians.

 

[Honey]

Roman's 12 is speaking of the perfect will of God. Not that humans can become perfect.

Matthew 5:48 ►Be you therefore perfect, even as your Father who is in heaven is perfect.
"Perfect" - Greek: τελειος adjective - nominative singular masculine
teleios tel'-i-os: complete (in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, etc.); neuter completeness -- of full age, man, perfect.

 

[LovethroughDove]

Matthew 5:44 "But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you

This is a big one that is totally ignored and not believed

 

[Eugene]

Is a child weaned from milk? And then as faith progresses from taking in the word, we can grow from good will of God, and from there to the acceptable will of God, and finally to the perfect will of God (Rom 12:2). It’s correct that we all don’t read things the same.

Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.

Isa 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

I just posted this following scripture on another reply, but does God receive them that believe they should only certain foods, and also them that believe they can eat everything? (Rom 14:3)

Roman's 12 is speaking of the perfect will of God. Not that humans can become perfect.

Matthew 5:48 ►Be you therefore perfect, even as your Father who is in heaven is perfect.
"Perfect" - Greek: τελειος adjective - nominative singular masculine
teleios tel'-i-os: complete (in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, etc.); neuter completeness -- of full age, man, perfect.

John described this growth in the body of Christ as progressing from little children, to young men, to fathers in 1 Jn 2:13. I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father.

As children of God, He is at work in our lives and we read in Php 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ, and as the old cliché: He ain‘t done with us yet. God gives the increase and we might well be surprised when one day we are before Him receiving that reward He will have with Him which is the result of knowing just what each of us needed to attain to that place He wants to seat us.
Blessings in Christ Jesus.

 

[eddif]

Individuals make up the body of Christ.
Each member may have a different calling that uses different thinking.

A liver is into glycogen production.
This may be similar to doctrine about Pentecost / Power / energy.

Kidneys filter waste products out of the blood stream. The Old Testament May rightly help identify sin that needs to be eliminated from the body.

A liver does not think like kidney. Both support the well being of a human body. The same thought must apply to the body of Christ. An evangelist is a little different than a teacher, but both depend on others to balance the churches functions.

Administrators are part of the church. The spiritual gifts are diverse.

Some times we think our job is the only way things work. That is where arguments can begin.

Romans 1:20 kjv
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[Eugene]

Matthew 5:44 "But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you

This is a big one that is totally ignored and not believed

The reason being is much due to our old man, or nature we need to overcome.
Eph 4:22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;

Rom 12:17 Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men.
Rom 12:18 If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.
Rom 12:21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

I have posted this following link several times addressing the thought you present.
http://christianforums.net/Fellowsh...but-i-need-prayers-anyway.73044/#post-1403469