Origin of GOOD and EVIL!

[Elijah7777]

God is a just God?

John Wesley teaches that God’s justice demands holiness, but also makes a way for sinners through Christ. The teachings of John Wesley on holiness have shaped not just Methodists, but a wide array of Christian movements across centuries and continents.

 

[Elijah7777]

Romans 2:15 teaches that sinful souls have a conscience or awareness of “the requirements of the law”, which may be combined with Romans 1:20 to teach that God’s power and moral nature or will may be perceived via creation and conscience (called natural revelation), thus those unfamiliar with God’s Word in Scripture have no good reason for resisting divine leading and choosing atheism/evil.

I think we need to look more into this "awareness".

Just how do they have "no good reason"?
.

 

[GodsGrace]

According to Rom. 9, it is obvious that God chooses who will be saved. So the question is, how is that just? Very simply, justice is people getting what they deserve. Sinners deserve lake of fire judgment, according to many statements in scripture, both old and new testaments. If God chose not to save any man, He would still be just, because everyone deserves lake of fire judgment, regardless of how religious they try to make themselves. Self-righteousness does not merit salvation.

But Rom. 9 clearly says that God has mercy on whom He desires, and by the very nature of the statement means that He has mercy on some, not all. And mercy is not part of justice, nor does it have anything to do with justice, except to circumvent it. Mercy is an exception to justice. So God is not obligated in any way to have mercy on everyone, just because He decided to have mercy on some.

Therefore, your question that if God choses some for salvation and some to be passed over, how is that just - is a question that lacks understanding. Now you're the one who must define justice according to how you are using the word. Justice does not require mercy on anyone, much less on everyone, just because mercy is given to another. But God has the right to do whatever He wants with His own creation.

Rom. 3:10-18 clearly states why God is not obligated to save anyone. But in fact He does save some, as Paul argues in the rest of Romans (and 1 Cor. 1&2 and Eph. 2). First accept what God says about Himself and His choices (even if you don't understand it), then you will be in a better attitude to later understand what it means.

Terrible Philosophy.

If JUSTICE means giving to each person what they deserve....
and God wants to be a JUST God,,,as He is....

then we should all be going to hell.

The moment God chooses some to go to heaven He is no longer a JUST God because He is NOT giving to the chosen persons what they deserve.

You also stated that justice does not require mercy.
Thanks for making my argument for me.

You are describing a God that is NOT JUST.

Romans 9 has nothing to do with this discussion.
Romans 3:10 has nothing to do with this discussion.

This discussion is about whether or not God is a just God.
In YOUR theology,,,He is not.

 

[GodsGrace]

Are you saying, GodsGrace, that we all should be declared guilty and be sent to hell, because God is a just God?

According to the argument made by the other member...yes, this is what I'm saying.
It is NOT what I believe...let's not get confused.

God is either just or He is not.

He is indeed our just Judge, because he is our Maker, but he laid his just verdict of guilty for believers on his unique Son on the cross so that we can be declared not guilty as evidence of his grace, love, and mercy.

yadda yadda Bruce.
I'm tired and it's nonsense to state this to a believer in Jesus.

I don't know why God doesn't save every human because of his love;

Have you not read the NT???
It states why.

the Bible doesn't say,

Yes it does Bruce.
If I can remember, I'll be back here tomorrow.
It's 1:30AM here.

but it must be a very good reason, which he hasn't revealed to us.

With a Master of Divinity you don't know that God HAS revealed His plan for salvation?

However, all humans are fully responsible for their whole lives,

How could that be if God predestinated EVERYTHING...
I've posted to you on this but you haven't replied.
I've posted John Calvin and other top theologians stating that God CAUSES evil to happen....
if this is so..
HOW are we responsible for our actions if we do NOT determine our actions?

which are justly condemned and punished, if they don't repent and trust in Jesus.

Ooooh. I think you've got it!
See, you DO know what saves a person.

Good night Bruce
sorry if I sound a bit snarky...am tired.