I'm 76 and I'm Tired

[JLB]

Sorry, that is just not true. My late first wife and I went into full-time Christian service as 24-hours-a-day, ten-days-per-shift house parents for five mentally handicapped adult women with the same stars in our eyes that you seem to have. We were going to be wonderfully kind and loving, and the mentally handicapped women were going to respond accordingly. We were going to be one big happy Christian household. We had a rude, rude, RUDE awakening. It was the closest to Hell I ever expect to be. I'll spare you the details, but I concluded that do to this job properly requires a near-saint who has genuinely been called by God for this particular service and can withstand conditions that are pretty much the equivalent of warfare.

After this, I served for almost 15 years as the attorney for an agency that obtained court orders for seriously mentally ill adults to be involuntarily committed for treatment. The cases were almost invariably gut-wrenching. Loving mothers, fathers, husbands, brothers and sisters absolutely could not cope with these people. My wife now, an extremely devout Christian, was in charge of inspecting homes for the mentally handicapped in the Soviet Union, and her experiences were exactly the same as mine.

Any notion that the mentally ill are sweeties who recognize and respond to Spirit-filled kindness is Pollyannaish in the extreme and typically held by people who have little experience with these unfortunate folks. Some of them are sweeties and will respond, of course, but this is true of any segment of the population. It is an extremely challenging situation, as challenging to a Christian perspective as the so-called Problem of Evil.

Do you believe that what the doctors call "mentally ill", are really those who are oppressed by the devil, and even possessed in some cases?


JLB

 

[Christ_empowered]

I'm in the "severely mentally ill" (SMI) category. Either some kinda Bipolar I or some moody Schizophrenia.

I'd say that SMI usually clusters with a lot of sins, "poor life choices," etc. Not that its all the SMI person's "fault." Trauma, poverty, social isolation, racism, homophobia, misogyny, ill effects of living in a society that tends to be rather harsh and unforgiving (towards most people...)....these things take their toll.

I fall into a trap sometimes of idealizing people and also devaluing them. I think, when it comes to marginalized groups of people, many do the same. SMI people are often devalued--few of us have jobs, afterall, and many of us --have-- made mistakes, and many of us are always "different" from mainstream people--and then some people idealize the SMI group, both those who accept mainstream psychiatry and those on the anti-psychiatry end of the spectrum.

Truth is...well, we're people, lol. Some of us are good, or could be moral, good, Christian, etc. Some of us, like any group of people, are unrepentant sinners. Many of us have seared our consciences.

I will say that it gets rough, life with SMI, and its often (for me, at least) a darned if you, darned if you don't situation. I'm in recovery (by the grace of God). So, I'm higher functioning than before, but I'm also expected to fit into the social role of "mental patient" and "Schizophrenic." I don't fit into those roles very well. I'm not intentionally bucking an oppressive system...I'm considered "uppity" just by using the resources at my disposal to pursue my own interests. I think southerners may just be more open and vocal about things like this. Elsewhere, "uppity mental patients" are probably kept in hospitals and/or group homes.

Compassion is always a good thing. Kindness is always a good thing. But its true...many SMI people are homeless because they/we have burned bridges with just about everybody who could/would help us. My case is a little different...the "professionals" refused to lift a finger to help me when I was genuinely sick, and now call me "sick" when I'm remarkably healthy...but for many SMI people, some of their/our problems are a result of a life poorly lived (not necessarily the mental problems, but some of the other things...).

I dunno. Its a tough situation. I'm blessed that I respond well to standard meds and have my (loving, wonderful, long suffering) people solidly behind me, despite everything. In Mental Health, Inc., the "professionals" are often part of the problem, "Treatment" can be straight up dangerous, and "recovery" often simply means compliance. I genuinely like+appreciate my current treatment providers, but...Mental Health, Inc. is definitely a mixed bag.

 

[Runner]

Do you believe that what the doctors call "mentally ill", are really those who are oppressed by the devil, and even possessed in some cases?


JLB

I don't discount the possibility. As you probably know, that was the conclusion reached by psychiatrist M. Scott Peck (People of the Lie, Glimpses of the Devil) - some cases just can't be explained by conventional notions of mental illness. Not that I have any great expertise, but I would think the vast majority of cases do fall into the "conventional mental illness" category. One of the gut-wrenching things about many of the cases is that the patients are truly nice people you would want to be around when they are on their medications and the complete opposite when they aren't. (Sadly, many of the cases are "controlled" by over-medication to the point of making the patient into a zombie, which is no life at all. In my limited experience, the mental health community is almost 100% interested in finding the best cocktail of medications, as opposed to attempting any other form of help or considering whether the patient will have a meaningful life when he or she is on the cocktail.)

When you read the most well-documented possession cases, such as those of the Catholic Church, certainly those are in an entirely different category from the typical case of mental illness. I don't discount the possibility of some demonic influence in many cases of mental illness, but then I don't discount the possibility of demonic influence in lots of sinful behaviors that we don't typically classify as mental illnesses! Homosexuality was classified as a mental disorder until 1973, when the American Psychiatric Association declassified it almost entirely in response to a PR-type lobbying campaign (i.e., not for medical reasons). I believe transgender identity disorder is still recognized, but probably not for long. Could much of homosexuality and transgenderism be demonically influenced? I would absolutely think so.

 

[Obadiah]

Sorry, that is just not true. My late first wife and I went into full-time Christian service as 24-hours-a-day, ten-days-per-shift house parents for five mentally handicapped adult women with the same stars in our eyes that you seem to have. We were going to be wonderfully kind and loving, and the mentally handicapped women were going to respond accordingly. We were going to be one big happy Christian household. We had a rude, rude, RUDE awakening. It was the closest to Hell I ever expect to be. I'll spare you the details, but I concluded that do to this job properly requires a near-saint who has genuinely been called by God for this particular service and can withstand conditions that are pretty much the equivalent of warfare.

After this, I served for almost 15 years as the attorney for an agency that obtained court orders for seriously mentally ill adults to be involuntarily committed for treatment. The cases were almost invariably gut-wrenching. Loving mothers, fathers, husbands, brothers and sisters absolutely could not cope with these people. My wife now, an extremely devout Christian, was in charge of inspecting homes for the mentally handicapped in the Soviet Union, and her experiences were exactly the same as mine.

Any notion that the mentally ill are sweeties who recognize and respond to Spirit-filled kindness is Pollyannaish in the extreme and typically held by people who have little experience with these unfortunate folks. Some of them are sweeties and will respond, of course, but this is true of any segment of the population. It is an extremely challenging situation, as challenging to a Christian perspective as the so-called Problem of Evil.

Wow. Tell us how you REALLY feel!

I'm sure if you worked in this field, even for a short time as a part time worker, you would have heard the term "good fit" and you certainly should have realized you were not a "good fit" with these particular people. It's not always that you aren't good enough or anything like that. It's just that your particular set of talents and abilities don't fit with the needs of those particular people. As a professional you should have recognized this and moved on to different clients so as to avoid further damage to yourself as well as to them. You CERTAINLY shouldn't use your failure to have recognized and done this as a justification for judgements such as

Any notion that the mentally ill are sweeties who recognize and respond to Spirit-filled kindness is Pollyannaish in the extreme and typically held by people who have little experience with these unfortunate folks.

When you search out and work with those with whom you are a good fit it's certainly not a bed of roses, but it's not even close to your description of

an extremely challenging situation, as challenging to a Christian perspective as the so-called Problem of Evil.

I'm really sorry you had to suffer through such an ordeal and sorry to see how it has soured you on this kind of work and on this segment of our society.

 

[Obadiah]

Every time I have associated with the mentally handicapped, and treated them like a regular person. They always recognized me with a smile and wanted to chat. I believe when a Spirit filled man walks with the sick and handicapped, it is that Spirit that they recognize, and it's comfort and grace . Christ in us.

It probably depends on their particular conditions, but in many cases I'm convinced this is true.

 

[Runner]

Wow. Tell us how you REALLY feel!

I'm sure if you worked in this field, even for a short time as a part time worker, you would have heard the term "good fit" and you certainly should have realized you were not a "good fit" with these particular people. It's not always that you aren't good enough or anything like that. It's just that your particular set of talents and abilities don't fit with the needs of those particular people. As a professional you should have recognized this and moved on to different clients so as to avoid further damage to yourself as well as to them. You CERTAINLY shouldn't use your failure to have recognized and done this as a justification for judgements such as When you search out and work with those with whom you are a good fit it's certainly not a bed of roses, but it's not even close to your description of I'm really sorry you had to suffer through such an ordeal and sorry to see how it has soured you on this kind of work and on this segment of our society.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but your analysis is grossly in error. My wife and I had taken vows of full-time Christian service. These folks were not my "clients." I left a law partnership and a six-figure income and essentially gave up everything we owned for minimum-wage house parent positions precisely because I had been recruited as the "right kind of person" by the internationally renowned founder of the ministry to be his successor. I chose the minimum-wage position because I wanted to see the ministry from the inside and felt I would be better accepted as the president if I had first served in the trenches. I do know whereof I speak: working with the severely mentally handicapped is a monumentally stressful near-hell for which few people are suited or last long. If you think otherwise, you aren't dealing with the severely mentally handicapped. I'm not talking about working at Goodwill; I'm talking about the severely impaired. The psychiatrists at the agency I later represented came to have such anger toward these sad but maddening people that they routinely wanted them criminally charged with assault and similar offenses; it was I, as the lawyer, who had to urge them not to take this absurd step. Those who do last long typically do what doctors and even lawyers such as myself learn to do - to distance themselves emotionally from the situation and their clients, to approach the situation strictly as professionals, and to accept the limitations of what they are going to be able to accomplish.

Forgot to add: I still believe God led me to this position. What I saw from the inside was corruption and abuse on a staggering scale. Shortly after I left, I wrote the founder a letter that evil such as he had allowed his empire to become would not survive. Literally within weeks, a memo that I had written to the founder found its way to his board of directors via one of his long-time assistants who had seen the same things I did. This evil guy, who had once been a true visionary, was summarily booted from the very ministry he had founded by his own board. I wrote him a follow-up letter telling him that I now felt like an Old Testament prophet. Twenty-five years later, the ministry has been completely transformed under new leadership. So you'll forgive me if I disagree with your long-distance analysis of my "failure" and the "damage" I did to the victims of the corruption and abuse.

 

[Malachi]

Do you believe that what the doctors call "mentally ill", are really those who are oppressed by the devil, and even possessed in some cases?

That's a very strong possibility either way -- oppressed or possessed, according to Scripture. Mental health "professionals" do not even consider these factors, since they generally have no idea regarding spiritual forces. But Christians should look for this first. There can be other factors also.

 

[JLB]

That's a very strong possibility either way -- oppressed or possessed, according to Scripture. Mental health "professionals" do not even consider these factors, since they generally have no idea regarding spiritual forces. But Christians should look for this first. There can be other factors also.

 

[Douglas Summers]

Sorry, that is just not true. My late first wife and I went into full-time Christian service as 24-hours-a-day, ten-days-per-shift house parents for five mentally handicapped adult women with the same stars in our eyes that you seem to have. We were going to be wonderfully kind and loving, and the mentally handicapped women were going to respond accordingly. We were going to be one big happy Christian household. We had a rude, rude, RUDE awakening. It was the closest to Hell I ever expect to be. I'll spare you the details, but I concluded that do to this job properly requires a near-saint who has genuinely been called by God for this particular service and can withstand conditions that are pretty much the equivalent of warfare.

After this, I served for almost 15 years as the attorney for an agency that obtained court orders for seriously mentally ill adults to be involuntarily committed for treatment. The cases were almost invariably gut-wrenching. Loving mothers, fathers, husbands, brothers and sisters absolutely could not cope with these people. My wife now, an extremely devout Christian, was in charge of inspecting homes for the mentally handicapped in the Soviet Union, and her experiences were exactly the same as mine.

Any notion that the mentally ill are sweeties who recognize and respond to Spirit-filled kindness is Pollyannaish in the extreme and typically held by people who have little experience with these unfortunate folks. Some of them are sweeties and will respond, of course, but this is true of any segment of the population. It is an extremely challenging situation, as challenging to a Christian perspective as the so-called Problem of Evil.

Yes, you are correct, I know that, especially in RUSSIA. I was talking about the mentally handicapped. Those that have some semblance of reality. I was not talking about the insane. The insane have no perception of social interaction. It is like they are Alien, unpredictable when or how they will react, but predictable that they will react, some violently And you are right, it has to be a special Spiritual calling for ministering. I have no perception that the mentally ill are sweet and always respond to kindness. But the Lord will lead a Spirit filled believer to minister. The women that I helped that had MS would run around the hallways naked some times, She would beat on our apartment door, and even call me at work and accuse me of stealing her underwear??? Another man I helped with mental disabilities, He had a car and a job at Burger King about a couple blocks away. He did not keep the payments on the car and lost it. I bought him a 10 speed bicycle to get back and forth to work, 2 days later he lost his bike some where???
I ministered to a man and his girlfriend, I had to intervene and take a 22 revolver away from him, He was going to shoot his girlfriend. I got him a job where I worked with good pay and good benefits. He lasted less than two weeks. I sold him car that I had for $500 (it was worth much more) paid the taxes title and plates for him. A few weeks later he drives up over the curve and bust the oil pan. Then he drives around with no engine oil and burns the motor up. I tell you all that I did to help this man to show you I gave him every opportunity so that he had nothing financially to cause him to hinder his advancement in society.
But I did these things by the nature of the new man in me. I never gave up on him, he gave up on the charity of the Lord in me.

The apartments I lived in were dangerous, there were murders, drug dealers, and thief's many. I was cautious, but never threatened. Most everyone knew where to go to get help. Some took advantage of me, but I was glad to represent the grace of God. I was broadcasting God's grace and charity that was given to me. I stayed there 30 years. I had my own home about a 120 miles away, but this is where my job was. I did this because of Christ in me, not for personal gratification. But dealing with the insane was not my calling.

 

[Christ_empowered]

That's a very strong possibility either way -- oppressed or possessed, according to Scripture. Mental health "professionals" do not even consider these factors, since they generally have no idea regarding spiritual forces. But Christians should look for this first. There can be other factors also.

Speaking as someone w/ severe mental illness, I agree with your statements. Mine is probably at least partly rooted in my brain (I had neurological problems at a young age, and it was all downhill from there), but that's not always the case. I personally think that a lot of "mental illness" could be avoided, or at least made less intense, through better application of Christian morality --and-- a stronger Christian community (one in which people genuinely care, grow in the faith together, confess their sins one to another, etc.).


I don't think most "professionals" care about (real) Jesus. They'll pay lip service to your "higher power," blah blah blah, but they don't like The Bible unless you're using quotes to prop them up and prop up the status quo in general (most mental health "professionals" are hyper-conventional). I think Mental Health, Inc. is sick in the same way society is sick...there's often not much compassion for the genuinely lost in Mental Health, Inc. because its just an outgrowth of society as a whole.

Anyway...I think a lot of demonically possessed and oppressed people end up in hospitals, jails, prisons, psycho-prisons, etc....and the shrinks could care less (mostly). They offer symptom suppression, sometimes behavioral modification. If all else fails...shock, maybe a brain operation (lobotomies are rare, but there are other surgeries gaining popularity...). "Treatment" often means subtraction with shrinks. Subtract intelligence, subtract personality, subtract...well...brain cells. Christ is the opposite. He's good at pruning the branches of the vine, of course, but He's also good at building up His children.

 

[Obadiah]

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but your analysis is grossly in error. My wife and I had taken vows of full-time Christian service. These folks were not my "clients." I left a law partnership and a six-figure income and essentially gave up everything we owned for minimum-wage house parent positions precisely because I had been recruited as the "right kind of person" by the internationally renowned founder of the ministry to be his successor. I chose the minimum-wage position because I wanted to see the ministry from the inside and felt I would be better accepted as the president if I had first served in the trenches. I do know whereof I speak: working with the severely mentally handicapped is a monumentally stressful near-hell for which few people are suited or last long. If you think otherwise, you aren't dealing with the severely mentally handicapped. I'm not talking about working at Goodwill; I'm talking about the severely impaired. The psychiatrists at the agency I later represented came to have such anger toward these sad but maddening people that they routinely wanted them criminally charged with assault and similar offenses; it was I, as the lawyer, who had to urge them not to take this absurd step. Those who do last long typically do what doctors and even lawyers such as myself learn to do - to distance themselves emotionally from the situation and their clients, to approach the situation strictly as professionals, and to accept the limitations of what they are going to be able to accomplish.

Forgot to add: I still believe God led me to this position. What I saw from the inside was corruption and abuse on a staggering scale. Shortly after I left, I wrote the founder a letter that evil such as he had allowed his empire to become would not survive. Literally within weeks, a memo that I had written to the founder found its way to his board of directors via one of his long-time assistants who had seen the same things I did. This evil guy, who had once been a true visionary, was summarily booted from the very ministry he had founded by his own board. I wrote him a follow-up letter telling him that I now felt like an Old Testament prophet. Twenty-five years later, the ministry has been completely transformed under new leadership. So you'll forgive me if I disagree with your long-distance analysis of my "failure" and the "damage" I did to the victims of the corruption and abuse.

Very well. Write off my statements as you wish. I am a professional, full time long term caregiver for developmentally disabled people, some of whom are exactly as you describe and one of them has assaulted and sent a few of our staff members to the emergency room, one just last week. I have done exactly as you say here: "... to distance themselves emotionally from the situation and their clients, to approach the situation strictly as professionals, and to accept the limitations of what they are going to be able to accomplish." But go ahead and write off everything I say as if I know nothing of this type of ministry/work. Good luck with that kind of attitude.

 

[Runner]

Very well. Write off my statements as you wish. I am a professional, full time long term caregiver for developmentally disabled people, some of whom are exactly as you describe and one of them has assaulted and sent a few of our staff members to the emergency room, one just last week. I have done exactly as you say here: "... to distance themselves emotionally from the situation and their clients, to approach the situation strictly as professionals, and to accept the limitations of what they are going to be able to accomplish." But go ahead and write off everything I say as if I know nothing of this type of ministry/work. Good luck with that kind of attitude.

HARRUMPH! No "attitude" there.

What I "write off" is your immediate long-distance analysis that I must not have been a "good fit" with the women for whom my wife and I were house parents, that the fault in failing to recognize I was not a "good fit" was mine, that I should have "moved on" before doing "further damage" to myself and them, and that I am now "soured" on this segment of society. You stated in your original reply that work with the severely mentally handicapped is "not even close to [my] description" when someone (presumably meaning you) is a "good fit," but you then admit in your latest reply that in order to survive in this environment you have been forced to do exactly what I described - i.e., to distance yourself emotionally from the situation and your clients, to approach the situation strictly as a professional, and to accept the limitations of what you are going to be able to accomplish. Good for you if you can continue to serve as a caregiver by maintaining this attitude. In my experience, however, those who are really a "good fit" don't have to do this in order to survive; they are motivated by genuine love of God and genuine love for these unfortunate people, and they view their work as a holy calling. The facility at which I was employed had about 20 sets of house parents, and I would say there were about four sets who clearly had this attitude. They stood out like shining stars in comparison to those for whom it was "just a job" and who had to find some way to "survive." The others who managed to cope and stay long-term could be effective house parents at one level, but they didn't give their "kids" what the shining stars did.

 

[stovebolts]

Sorry, that is just not true. My late first wife and I went into full-time Christian service as 24-hours-a-day, ten-days-per-shift house parents for five mentally handicapped adult women with the same stars in our eyes that you seem to have. We were going to be wonderfully kind and loving, and the mentally handicapped women were going to respond accordingly. We were going to be one big happy Christian household. We had a rude, rude, RUDE awakening. It was the closest to Hell I ever expect to be. I'll spare you the details, but I concluded that do to this job properly requires a near-saint who has genuinely been called by God for this particular service and can withstand conditions that are pretty much the equivalent of warfare.

After this, I served for almost 15 years as the attorney for an agency that obtained court orders for seriously mentally ill adults to be involuntarily committed for treatment. The cases were almost invariably gut-wrenching. Loving mothers, fathers, husbands, brothers and sisters absolutely could not cope with these people. My wife now, an extremely devout Christian, was in charge of inspecting homes for the mentally handicapped in the Soviet Union, and her experiences were exactly the same as mine.

Any notion that the mentally ill are sweeties who recognize and respond to Spirit-filled kindness is Pollyannaish in the extreme and typically held by people who have little experience with these unfortunate folks. Some of them are sweeties and will respond, of course, but this is true of any segment of the population. It is an extremely challenging situation, as challenging to a Christian perspective as the so-called Problem of Evil.

you nailed that one on the head...

 

[stovebolts]

Very well. Write off my statements as you wish. I am a professional, full time long term caregiver for developmentally disabled people, some of whom are exactly as you describe and one of them has assaulted and sent a few of our staff members to the emergency room, one just last week. I have done exactly as you say here: "... to distance themselves emotionally from the situation and their clients, to approach the situation strictly as professionals, and to accept the limitations of what they are going to be able to accomplish." But go ahead and write off everything I say as if I know nothing of this type of ministry/work. Good luck with that kind of attitude.

I don't think that your view or Runner 's view is incorrect. It's all in who you've "experienced".
My mentally ill daughter is in Ellensburg after spending just a tad over a year in Eastern State. She's a handfull to say the least. I don't want this to sound wrong, but if she wasn't my daughter, I'd stay way clear of her. As is sits, she's my beloved daughter, and I'll always love her with every stitch of my heart. But the reality is, she does well where she's at... well, as long as she doesn't have to share her 'house' with any other people. And yes, it's very hard to keep care givers for her... She's difficult, and that's putting it mildly.
I often wonder if telling her about Jesus was the right thing to do. You see, she's extreemly delusional and that's what got her put in Eastern. It was the dead of winter and she was in the woods with a beautiful white dress that resembled a wedding dress, full makeup and no shoes. Took search and rescue over an hour to locate her. We're lucky she's alive. She was hell bent on thinking Jesus was coming down to get her, ... His bride.
Did I tell you she can be very, very mean at times?....

My Mother on the other hand wasn't so extreem, but was known for "raging" on more than one occation.

 

[Tony Hyman]

Just the other day a loan company phoned me and asked if I don't want R 23.000 which is about 1533.00 American Dollars.Fortunately I remembered that Banks are immune or deaf when it comes to "Forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors" (Mt. 6: 12 N.I.V.) and also "At the end of every seven years you must cancel debts"(Dt. 15:1).Years ago you had to practically go through a crawling begging process to prove your worth or credibility to get a loan. Nowadays there is some sort of softening up process leading to where Satan only knows, as I see it, and the old Eastern belief or saying that "debt is the opiate of the West" seems to be working.
Fortunately the little voice of the Holy Spirit guided me in the right direction to say "No ! " with a "little thank" of course, out Christian decency.

 

[Runner]

I don't think that your view or Runner 's view is incorrect. It's all in who you've "experienced".
My mentally ill daughter is in Ellensburg after spending just a tad over a year in Eastern State. She's a handfull to say the least. I don't want this to sound wrong, but if she wasn't my daughter, I'd stay way clear of her. As is sits, she's my beloved daughter, and I'll always love her with every stitch of my heart. But the reality is, she does well where she's at... well, as long as she doesn't have to share her 'house' with any other people. And yes, it's very hard to keep care givers for her... She's difficult, and that's putting it mildly.
I often wonder if telling her about Jesus was the right thing to do. You see, she's extreemly delusional and that's what got her put in Eastern. It was the dead of winter and she was in the woods with a beautiful white dress that resembled a wedding dress, full makeup and no shoes. Took search and rescue over an hour to locate her. We're lucky she's alive. She was hell bent on thinking Jesus was coming down to get her, ... His bride.
Did I tell you she can be very, very mean at times?....

My Mother on the other hand wasn't so extreem, but was known for "raging" on more than one occation.

Thanks for your kind comments. One of my epiphanies was when I turned to my wife and said, "Do you realize, we are trying to be house parents to five adult women, none of whom THEIR OWN PARENTS could cope with? THEIR OWN PARENTS are paying $3,000 a month to not have to deal with them. And we are trying to deal with FIVE OF THEM, 24 hours a day." The other "expert opinion" on this thread notwithstanding, anyone who could've coped on a long-term basis with what we were trying to cope with was not merely a good fit, but a full-blown saint. One set of real parents happened to be local and to be fairly wealthy. They were SO grateful we had freed them from their daughter (they stated this explicitly) that they treated us like royalty on our days off. (We had two days off every ten days, although we had to remain at the facility. A more realistic ratio would have been two days on, ten days off!)

 

[Christ_empowered]

I don't think that your view or Runner 's view is incorrect. It's all in who you've "experienced".
My mentally ill daughter is in Ellensburg after spending just a tad over a year in Eastern State. She's a handfull to say the least. I don't want this to sound wrong, but if she wasn't my daughter, I'd stay way clear of her. As is sits, she's my beloved daughter, and I'll always love her with every stitch of my heart. But the reality is, she does well where she's at... well, as long as she doesn't have to share her 'house' with any other people. And yes, it's very hard to keep care givers for her... She's difficult, and that's putting it mildly.
I often wonder if telling her about Jesus was the right thing to do. You see, she's extreemly delusional and that's what got her put in Eastern. It was the dead of winter and she was in the woods with a beautiful white dress that resembled a wedding dress, full makeup and no shoes. Took search and rescue over an hour to locate her. We're lucky she's alive. She was hell bent on thinking Jesus was coming down to get her, ... His bride.
Did I tell you she can be very, very mean at times?....

My Mother on the other hand wasn't so extreem, but was known for "raging" on more than one occation.

Thanks for this. Looking over my own "mental illness" (in my case...Bipolar I), I see a lot of immoral behavior that was both a result of madness and also contributed to madness (or more madness, lol). Since I've gotten saved and I've been changed, so now I'm flawed and have my sins and sin patterns, but I'm no longer unrepentant...lo and behold, my Bipolar I is much more manageable. I do take meds (four, yes 4, miracle meds), but they get the job done, no major breakdowns, no more hospitalizations (praying this continues...), etc. I don't doubt that there's a brain component to madness, but I don't think its all a question of brain chemistry and neurons, blah blah blah.

I'm not saying all mentally ill people are immoral, or even that madness is the price you pay for sin. Far from it...madness happens across cultures, has happened across time. Having said that...I think that, just like any other sinner, the mad need Jesus in a big, obvious way.

And...I'm done.

 

[stovebolts]

Thanks for your kind comments. One of my epiphanies was when I turned to my wife and said, "Do you realize, we are trying to be house parents to five adult women, none of whom THEIR OWN PARENTS could cope with? THEIR OWN PARENTS are paying $3,000 a month to not have to deal with them. And we are trying to deal with FIVE OF THEM, 24 hours a day." The other "expert opinion" on this thread notwithstanding, anyone who could've coped on a long-term basis with what we were trying to cope with was not merely a good fit, but a full-blown saint. One set of real parents happened to be local and to be fairly wealthy. They were SO grateful we had freed them from their daughter (they stated this explicitly) that they treated us like royalty on our days off. (We had two days off every ten days, although we had to remain at the facility. A more realistic ratio would have been two days on, ten days off!)

Your welcome friend.
I would dearly love to have my daughter in my home, but the reality is we're not up to the task. As it sits, she's got 2 full time staff that watch over her, compliments of the great state of Washington. I don't know how many staff members there are total that rotate, but I get an earful everytime I talk with her about how she hates this staff member, or that staff member was mean to her for this or that. What it comes down to really is my daughter just isn't happy. Well, unless she's swinging on her swing, walking in the rain, or getting everything she want when she wants it in the manner she wanted it.

My brother was a full time caregiver for my schizophrenic mother after she suffered a major stroke. I think he made it almost 10 years before he caved and just couldn't do it anymore. She was healthy and doing well until he couldn't do it anymore, he was at his wits end. She went through caregiver after caregiver and she gained about a hundred pounds and in just a few short years died. Yes, my brother spoke with her on a daily basis, and I don't think too many days went by without him stopping in to see her. You probably know the stats, but most relatives that try to play caregiver only last about 3 or 4 years before they are exhausted and throw in the towel.

I guess all this to say that some with mental illness are rough to get along with. They not only exhibit odd behavior, but their fits of rage can get pretty intense. You can't reason with them, and one lesson to learn rather quickly is don't even try. It took me many years to map out my mother to figure out what she was thinking and what she was really trying to say. It was a pretty convoluted web of events strung out in her head, but once I understood, ... it became easier to communicate with her and her fits of rage began to settle down... because she knew I would listen, and I understood what was behind her rage.

well, enough rambling on my part. Thank you for helping those in need. It's a tough job, and I commend your efforts.

 

[stovebolts]

Thanks for this. Looking over my own "mental illness" (in my case...Bipolar I), I see a lot of immoral behavior that was both a result of madness and also contributed to madness (or more madness, lol). Since I've gotten saved and I've been changed, so now I'm flawed and have my sins and sin patterns, but I'm no longer unrepentant...lo and behold, my Bipolar I is much more manageable. I do take meds (four, yes 4, miracle meds), but they get the job done, no major breakdowns, no more hospitalizations (praying this continues...), etc. I don't doubt that there's a brain component to madness, but I don't think its all a question of brain chemistry and neurons, blah blah blah.

I'm not saying all mentally ill people are immoral, or even that madness is the price you pay for sin. Far from it...madness happens across cultures, has happened across time. Having said that...I think that, just like any other sinner, the mad need Jesus in a big, obvious way.

And...I'm done.

Your an amazing individual friend. How long have we known each other on line? It's been a few years hasn't it? We're all on this road called life and I've watched you travel down the road with what you've shared through the years. I believe we've even walked together a few times. You've got a great testimony and I know God is doing great things in your life. Too bad we didn't live a bit closer, it would be fun to hang out with you.

Take care, and thanks for being an inspiration.