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Impossible Question for Oneness
- Thread starter Free
- Start date
K
Klee shay
Guest
Free said:
I want to comment, but first I need to check if I've got the definition of "Oneness" correct? Does it mean they believe Jesus is God?
I've heard of "Oneness" but I don't know much about it.
Oneness theology teaches that Jesus reveals himself in 3 different modes - Father, Son and Spirit.
I am curious as to why many Oneness seem to have arguments against trinitarianism but don't seem to have any to defend Oneness, thus far anyway.
I am curious as to why many Oneness seem to have arguments against trinitarianism but don't seem to have any to defend Oneness, thus far anyway.
Free said:
No. God is Father Son and HS; but there are NOT three separate and distinct 'persons' in the Godhead. In Jesus dwells ALL the fullness of the Godhead, bodily. God was in Christ, reconciling the world to Himself...GOD was manifest in the flesh. The HS is the Spirit of Jesus.
It's actually very simple. But there is NOTHING in the Scripture that says God is three persons. Nothing.
Steve,
I am a little unclear as to what the "no" is in response to. Weren't you a trinitarian at one point or do I have you confused with someone else? And just to be clear, are you a Oneness believer?
I am a little unclear as to what the "no" is in response to. Weren't you a trinitarian at one point or do I have you confused with someone else? And just to be clear, are you a Oneness believer?
There isn't a verse that states "God is three persons," no, but it is certainly implied throughout the NT. Or, to be more correct, the trinitarian position takes into account the fullest revelation of God in Scripture.
S
Soma-Sight
Guest
How can you NOT be????
Especially when you are ETERNAL and UNCREATED.....
: More paradoxes for the simple.
K
Klee shay
Guest
Free said:
By your definition Oneness theology teaches that Jesus reveals himself in 3 different modes - Father, Son and Spirit. So how is this different to what Trinity theology teaches?
O
Oscar3
Guest
K
Klee shay
Guest
Thanks for the link Oscar. But I must say the lines between Oneness and Trinity are still not that distinct. According to the link you provided, Oneness actually takes the next logical step that Trinity eludes to. If Jesus is God as the Holy Spirit is God (as the doctrine of trinity implies) then why not make Jesus one God?
I personally disagree with Oneness and Trinity (as much as I understand about them) on the simple premise that God will always be God and those who come to reveal his glory are obedient to God alone. As Jesus came to show us obedience and love for the Father, it doesn't make him God but rather one with God.
Yet I know I'm still a fledgling in understanding and by no means am an expert.
:
I personally disagree with Oneness and Trinity (as much as I understand about them) on the simple premise that God will always be God and those who come to reveal his glory are obedient to God alone. As Jesus came to show us obedience and love for the Father, it doesn't make him God but rather one with God.
Yet I know I'm still a fledgling in understanding and by no means am an expert.
:
Vic C.
Member
Hi Klee,Klee shay said:
I remember discussing Oneness with those who have comes here in the past with this belief. They believe Jesus IS God, that's for sure. They believe the Godhead is one Person only and that God's name in the NT is Jesus. They also believe that Jesus could be in Heaven and on Earth at the same time. I have a problem with this. It makes Jesus out to be schizophrenic. For instance;
Mat 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
Mat 3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
Here the Spirit of God is in the form of a Dove, not Jesus. The voice from Heaven is The Father Himself. They would have you believe Jesus was talking to Himself.
Similar problem here:
Mat 26:39 And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.
What Free has described above is called Modalism. This is the theory that God masifests (or reveales) Himself in thre distinctive modes. Again, the verses I quoted present a problem for Modalism because their thoery dictates that the three modes cannot exist simultaneously.
Hopes this helps.
U
unred typo
Guest
Klee shay wrote:
Thanks for the link Oscar. But I must say the lines between Oneness and Trinity are still not that distinct. According to the link you provided, Oneness actually takes the next logical step that Trinity eludes to. If Jesus is God as the Holy Spirit is God (as the doctrine of trinity implies) then why not make Jesus one God?
I personally disagree with Oneness and Trinity (as much as I understand about them) on the simple premise that God will always be God and those who come to reveal his glory are obedient to God alone. As Jesus came to show us obedience and love for the Father, it doesn't make him God but rather one with God.
I am not Oneness or Trinitarian either as far as I can tell. It seems that your definition of Christ lacks the element of deity in that he was not just come to show us obedience and love for the Father, but he came from God. He not only came from God, but he was the Word of God made flesh. Now that is a hard concept to visualize because we can only make our words into sounds, typed print or audio recordings, not give them a flesh and blood body to dwell in and have a separate life of their own. It seems that while Jesus was the image of the invisible God, he was also one with God and connected in a way that is more than just a prophet would be.
Thanks for the link Oscar. But I must say the lines between Oneness and Trinity are still not that distinct. According to the link you provided, Oneness actually takes the next logical step that Trinity eludes to. If Jesus is God as the Holy Spirit is God (as the doctrine of trinity implies) then why not make Jesus one God?
I personally disagree with Oneness and Trinity (as much as I understand about them) on the simple premise that God will always be God and those who come to reveal his glory are obedient to God alone. As Jesus came to show us obedience and love for the Father, it doesn't make him God but rather one with God.
I am not Oneness or Trinitarian either as far as I can tell. It seems that your definition of Christ lacks the element of deity in that he was not just come to show us obedience and love for the Father, but he came from God. He not only came from God, but he was the Word of God made flesh. Now that is a hard concept to visualize because we can only make our words into sounds, typed print or audio recordings, not give them a flesh and blood body to dwell in and have a separate life of their own. It seems that while Jesus was the image of the invisible God, he was also one with God and connected in a way that is more than just a prophet would be.
jgredline
Member
vic said:
Vic
Very good!!
here is a pretty good definition for Modalism from CARM
Modalism
Modalism is probably the most common theological error concerning the nature of God. It is a denial of the Trinity which states that God is a single person who, throughout biblical history, has revealed Himself in three modes, or forms. Thus, God is a single person who first manifested himself in the mode of the Father in Old Testament times. At the incarnation, the mode was the Son. After Jesus' ascension, the mode is the Holy Spirit. These modes are consecutive and never simultaneous. In other words, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit never all exist at the same time, only one after another. Modalism denies the distinctiveness of the three persons in the Trinity even though it retains the divinity of Christ.
Present day groups that hold to forms of this error are the United Pentecostal and United Apostolic Churches. They deny the Trinity, teach that the name of God is Jesus, and require baptism for salvation. These modalist churches often accuse Trinitarians of teaching three gods. This is not what the Trinity is. The correct teaching of the Trinity is one God in three eternal coexistent persons: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
Here is the link http://www.carm.org/heresy/modalism.htm
Most people that preach and teach this heresy like TD JAKES have no formal theological training. I can't think or know of one seminary in the country that teaches this faulty theology. Even Kings Seminary which is perhaps the largest most well recognized penticostal seminary in the country / world does not teach this heresy. For the record I am not penticostal and I am not picking on penticostals. I have many friends that are penticostal and we have the same God which is more important than anything. most penticosals that I have met are very dissapointed and angry with the Oneness group because they give good penticostals a bad name. Many of the penticostals you see on TBN are oneness preachers.
O
Oscar3
Guest
So much to learn. :o
I have learned more on this forum these past few weeks than i have all year.
Thats not good.
I have learned more on this forum these past few weeks than i have all year.
Thats not good.
O
Oscar3
Guest
vic said:
Vic
Thank you for the encouragement
I will be encouraging my Sunday school class to join the forum.
It is amazing to me how many false teachers their trully is on this forum.
I have them pretty much all picked out and know who they are.
They know who the are also.
Blessings, Oscar
I haven't been getting the email notifications for this thread. Weird.
This is traditional modalism but I think they figured out the absurdity of it all and, according to the Oneness that have frequented these forums, they do all exist at the same time.jgredline said:
jgredline
Member
Free said:
Free
I have not been getting any e mail from any thread. Perhaps there is a server problem.
Because of this web site it has prompted me to build a cult, false teacher, page for my web site. http://www.pro4machineworks.com/False_prophets.html
Free, if you have any suggestions pm me.
Click on the TD JAKES statement of beliefs. It may surprise you then it might not. God bless.
Jg