Imputation of Christ's Righteous?

[Butch5]

BACKGROUND FOR YOUR REPLY:
Yes, and that is precisely where I got the initial idea that you were a Mormon, or some other cultist. It seemed to me, and you can go back to examine my postings, that you were ripping a verse from its context, and I spent some time trying to convince you that because what you believed about a verse was not congruent to the context of the passage in which the verse was found.




All of the above was before the Damascus Road experience. Yes, indeed he was very zealous for the Law, and went so far as to kill Christians, and MAY have been present at the stoning of Stephen.

Paul does not make a dichotomy as we may do between law and grace, nut he surely explains the difference between the new and old covenants:

Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
​

As a result of that understanding, he could expand that statement better in Romans:

Romans 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? ...
​

Of course the Law is good! Can you expect a Pharisee to state otherwise (see verse 16) ? In that passage there are 8 mentions of "sin," and one of "evil" which is synonymous in the way that Paul uses it here So Apostle Paul makes no bones about being a sinful man because (see verse 24) even though he is now saved; he calls it a "war" between what he knows he should do, and knowing what he actually does.

Plaintively, he calls out his plight in verse 24.

The answer is his "Hallelujah Chorus" in Romans 8:1, and we MUST realize that even though it is a different chapter, it is still a continuation of the thoughts in Romans 7

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his​

It is EXTREMELY important to note that Romans 8:1 is UNCONDITIONAL. By that I mean that there is no "if" or "when"in the verse between Jesus Christ and "who". The grammar of the sentence is that entire clause beginning with "who" is adjectival in that they describe the pronoun "them" which can only speak of ALL believers because there is nothing to limit the participants in "them".

Here are sources substantiating what I stated:

FIRST: The Sanctification of Believers (Ro 8:1–13).

1. There is therefore now, &c.—referring to the immediately preceding context [OLSHAUSEN, PHILIPPI, MEYER, ALFORD, &c.]. The subject with which the seventh chapter concludes is still under consideration. The scope of Ro 8:1–4 is to show how “the law of sin and death” is deprived of its power to bring believers again into bondage, and how the holy law of God receives in them the homage of a living obedience [CALVIN, FRASER, PHILIPPI, MEYER, ALFORD, &c.].

no condemnation: to them which are in Christ Jesus—As Christ, who “knew no sin,” was, to all legal effects, “made sin for us,” so are we, who believe in Him, to all legal effects, “made the righteousness of God in Him” (2 Co 5:21); and thus, one with Him in the divine reckoning. There is to such “NO CONDEMNATION.” (Compare Jn 3:18; 5:24; Ro 5:18, 19). But this is no mere legal arrangement: it is a union in life; believers, through the indwelling of Christ’s Spirit in them, having one life with Him, as truly as the head and the members of the same body have one life.

who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit—The evidence of manuscripts seems to show that this clause formed no part of the original text of this verse, but that the first part of it was early introduced, and the second later, from Ro 8:4, probably as an explanatory comment, and to make the transition to Ro 8:2 easier.​

Jamieson, R., Fausset, A. R., & Brown, D. (1997). Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible (Ro 8:1–39).

Here is another:

[​

Sentence ] 1 Οὐδὲν ἄρα νῦν κατάκριμα
οὐδείς ἄρα νῦν κατάκριμα
JNSN CLI B NNSN
92.23 89.46 67.38 56.31
no consequently now condemnation

Relative Clause​

τοῖς
ὁ
DDPM
92.24
for those

Prepositional Phrase​

ἐν Χριστῷ Ἰησοῦ
ἐν Χριστός Ἰησοῦς
P NDSM NDSM
89.119 93.387 93.169
in Christ Jesus
Lukaszewski, A. L., & Dubis, M. (2009). The Lexham Syntactic Greek New Testament (p. 422).

As a result of his consistent view of himself, his flesh, and the unmerited Grace of Jesus Christ, he can state this, below

I suspect that I have made my case But REALLY my objective is more important than "point winning" I am hoping that you and others reading this can sit back and exclaim with great joy "HOW GREAT ARE YOU, LORD JESUS!!!
​

I don't;' see how this addresses the passage in Philippians. Paul said as touching the righteousness of the Law he was blameless. Doesn't that mean he kept the commands of the Law? Then he says not having my own righteousness which is of the Law. Doesn't that mean he's "my own righteousness" comes from keeping the commands of the Mosaic Law?

 

[By Grace]

I don't;' see how this addresses the passage in Philippians. Paul said as touching the righteousness of the Law he was blameless. Doesn't that mean he kept the commands of the Law? Then he says not having my own righteousness which is of the Law. Doesn't that mean he's "my own righteousness" comes from keeping the commands of the Mosaic Law?

If, as you say, that Paul considered himself righteous because he kept the Law perfectly, then how do you account for him calling himself so great of a SINNER?

Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
​

As a result of that understanding, he could expand that statement better in Romans:

Romans 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? ...​

Of course the Law is good! Can you expect a Pharisee to state otherwise (see verse 16) ? In that passage there are 8 mentions of "sin," and one of "evil" which is synonymous in the way that Paul uses it here So Apostle Paul makes no bones about being a sinful man because (see verse 24) even though he is now saved; he calls it a "war" between what he knows he should do, and knowing what he actually does.

Plaintively, he calls out his plight in verse 24.

Look at he describes himself to Timothy:

1 Timothy 1: 15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
17 Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.
​

I submit to you that because:

1. He called his own righteousness as "dung". Philippians 3:8
2. He called a "schoolmaster to bring one to Christ. Galatians 3:24
3. He called himself carnal, sold under sin. Romans 7:14
4. He does evil by omission and commission Romans 7:19
5. He says he is trapped in a body of death. Romans 7:24
6. He calls himself the CHIEF of sinners 1 Timothy 1:15

That by the preponderance of evidence, is it utterly impossible for anyone to attribute any sort of self-righteousness to him.

Furthermore, this is all highlighted by the One by Whom, he did find salvation, and that is by the MERCY of Jesus Christ alone 1 Timothy 1:16, and that is followed by his doxology of praise in 1 Timothy 1:17. If there were any sort of merit in what he accomplished by himself, it would be impossible for him to make such an accolade to Jesus Christ because he would be then trashing the nature and extent of the Atonement, making it conditional because it relies first on human efforts.

Regarding the Philippians passage, if you look carefully, you will see that he "lays out his 'credentials' got all to see".

Notice that this was when he was a Pharisee, and NOT a believer, so hi is looking back at history, and also admonishing those who thought he had no authority to be an Apostle of the early church. And while this was all significant in the eyes of humans (he held the equivalent of a Ph,D) he called it all "dung" and he stated that the sufficiency of Jesus Christ was far superior to the credentials of mankind.

Does all that make sense to you?

 

[gr8grace3]

If, as you say, that Paul considered himself righteous because he kept the Law perfectly, then how do you account for him calling himself so great of a SINNER?

Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
​

As a result of that understanding, he could expand that statement better in Romans:

Romans 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? ...​

Of course the Law is good! Can you expect a Pharisee to state otherwise (see verse 16) ? In that passage there are 8 mentions of "sin," and one of "evil" which is synonymous in the way that Paul uses it here So Apostle Paul makes no bones about being a sinful man because (see verse 24) even though he is now saved; he calls it a "war" between what he knows he should do, and knowing what he actually does.

Plaintively, he calls out his plight in verse 24.

Look at he describes himself to Timothy:

1 Timothy 1: 15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
17 Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.
​

I submit to you that because:

1. He called his own righteousness as "dung". Philippians 3:8
2. He called a "schoolmaster to bring one to Christ. Galatians 3:24
3. He called himself carnal, sold under sin. Romans 7:14
4. He does evil by omission and commission Romans 7:19
5. He says he is trapped in a body of death. Romans 7:24
6. He calls himself the CHIEF of sinners 1 Timothy 1:15

That by the preponderance of evidence, is it utterly impossible for anyone to attribute any sort of self-righteousness to him.

Furthermore, this is all highlighted by the One by Whom, he did find salvation, and that is by the MERCY of Jesus Christ alone 1 Timothy 1:16, and that is followed by his doxology of praise in 1 Timothy 1:17. If there were any sort of merit in what he accomplished by himself, it would be impossible for him to make such an accolade to Jesus Christ because he would be then trashing the nature and extent of the Atonement, making it conditional because it relies first on human efforts.

Regarding the Philippians passage, if you look carefully, you will see that he "lays out his 'credentials' got all to see".

Notice that this was when he was a Pharisee, and NOT a believer, so hi is looking back at history, and also admonishing those who thought he had no authority to be an Apostle of the early church. And while this was all significant in the eyes of humans (he held the equivalent of a Ph,D) he called it all "dung" and he stated that the sufficiency of Jesus Christ was far superior to the credentials of mankind.

Does all that make sense to you?

Sir, that was just a nice post to read!......As are many of yours.

God Bless