"In The Beginning Was THE WORD..."

[Toms777]

Jesus was His human name and Christ was His title.

Jesus was both God and Man, not just man. He was eternally pre-existent.

Mic 5:2
2 "But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah,
Though you are little among the thousands of Judah,
Yet out of you shall come forth to Me
The One to be Ruler in Israel,
Whose goings forth are from of old,
From everlasting."
NKJV

 

[herald]

Jesus became man, when He was conceived in Mary's womb. "...The Word became flesh and dwelt among us." John 1.

 

[Toms777]

Jesus became man, when He was conceived in Mary's womb. "...The Word became flesh and dwelt among us." John 1.

It does not say that the Word became ONLY man, but rather Heb 13:8 says that He never chnages, therefore He never ceased to be God, but rather as 1 Tim 3:16 says, God was manifest in the flesh.

But I fail to see how any of this supports your claim that Jesus was not Christ at any point in time.

Please take a moment and explain the process by which you have come to this conclusion. You appear to making assumptions which are unstated.

 

[herald]

I am not contending, that, Jesus is not the Christ - He is eternal God. He is called, "Mighty God," "Everlasting Father," in Isaiah 9:6.

How can He be called, the "Everlasting Father"? Because there is no sin in the Triune God, so there is no separation - the great mystery of the Godhead.

Jesus is Almighty God, Everlasting Father, Wonderful, Counsellor, Paraclete, The Prince of Peace, The Bread of Life, The Light of the world, The Word, The Christ, The Lord, The Son of God, The Son of man, The Way, The Truth, and The Life, The True Vine, The Water of Life,The Resurrection and The Life, The Rock, The Door, The Good Shepherd, The Alpha and Omega, The Lion and The Lamb, The Judge, The great, "I AM," our Bridegroom, but, most of all, our Saviour.

Amen?

 

[Toms777]

I am not contending, that, Jesus is not the Christ - He is eternal God. He is called, "Mighty God," "Everlasting Father," in Isaiah 9:6.

How can He be called, the "Everlasting Father"? Because there is no sin in the Triune God, so there is no separation - the great mystery of the Godhead.

Jesus is Almighty God, Everlasting Father, Wonderful, Counsellor, Paraclete, The Prince of Peace, The Bread of Life, The Light of the world, The Word, The Christ, The Lord, The Son of God, The Son of man, The Way, The Truth, and The Life, The True Vine, The Water of Life,The Resurrection and The Life, The Rock, The Door, The Good Shepherd, The Alpha and Omega, The Lion and The Lamb, The Judge, The great, "I AM," our Bridegroom, but, most of all, our Saviour.

Amen?

How can He be called the everlasting Father? Because He is a Father to us, a Father to the church. But this does not mean, as you appear imply, that the father and the Son were the same.

But once again, you appear to be distracting from the point. I asked that you present your argument as to why you seem to believe that at one point in time, at least, Jesus was not the Christ.

Please, no more beating around the bush. Present your logic, present your argument.

 

[herald]

"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called wonderful, Counsellor, The Mighty God, The Everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace." Isa 9:6. Not my Words - God's Word.

I never denied, that, Jesus is the Christ. I said, His name is Jesus, His title is The Christ, meaning, "The Anointed One."

 

[Toms777]

"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called wonderful, Counsellor, The Mighty God, The Everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace." Isa 9:6. Not my Words - God's Word.

I never denied, that, Jesus is the Christ. I said, His name is Jesus, His title is The Christ, meaning, "The Anointed One."

The discussion was about this comment made by another poster:

"Careful here: In the beginning was the Word who was Christ, not yet Jesus."

And when I challenged it, you appeared to come on defending his position. Do you agree or disagree with his position?

 

[herald]

I think, that we have covered this subject.

 

[Toms777]

I think, that we have covered this subject.

We may have covered it, but I am still unclear on what your position on this matter is and was hoping that you would provide clarity.

 

[herald]

Jesus is eternal God - The Great "I AM." And that is enough for me.

 

[Toms777]

Jesus is eternal God - The Great "I AM." And that is enough for me.

Do you believe that Jesus is and always has been Christ?

 

[herald]

You are making a distinction without a difference.

He has, always, been the Anointed One - Eternal God, The Lord...

 

[Toms777]

You are making a distinction without a difference.

He has, always, been the Anointed One - Eternal God, The Lord...

I made no distinction. I stated upfront that I believe that Jesus is and always has been Christ, the second person of the trinity.

 

[cyberjosh]

Careful here: In the beginning was the Word who was Christ, not yet Jesus.

That's a Gnostic position. I agree with Tom here, and commend his simple and firm conviction of faith.

~Josh

 

[Imagican]

Funny, all this 'belief' in Jesus IS God. For Christ Himself offered that He was NOT God Himself, but God's Son. When Christ offered that the words that He offered WERE NOT HIS OWN, but given Him by the Father, how much clearer must it be stated that The Word IS the Word of God. That the 'title' Word was NEVER given by Christ. Just the opposite in FACT. And If John's writting contradicts what Christ HIMSELF stated, then it's OBVIOUS that there has been a 'misunderstanding' of what he wrote.

And 'where' did this 'belief' come from? Philosophers and mystics. Men determined to 'create' their OWN 'religious system' REGARDLESS of what has been offered through The Word.

So many will STATE that their belief comes from their OWN understanding. This is NOT even possible. For one would HAVE to have been exposed to the 'idea' of trinity BEFORE they could even 'come up' with an understanding of it.

There is ONLY one TRUE God. And there is ONLY one TRUE Son of God. This does NOT make ONE. This makes two. Father and Son. 1+1=2. The ONLY reason that 'trinity' was devised was to allow one to be worshiped AS the other. And we have been warned NOT to allow this to happen. EVERY indication offered through The Word points directly to a 'created Christ'. Only 'BEGOTEN'. Christ STATING that the words that He offered were NOT His own but GIVEN Him by the FAther. This is a PURE indication that there was a 'time' when Christ DIDN'T have The Word. And for it to be 'given' means that UNTIL it was 'given' there was NO POSSESSION of it. The terms; Father and Son show PLACE. ONE 'before' the other. For a FATHER MUST be FIRST for there to BE a Son.

And guys, IF Jesus Christ IS God Himself, then the Catholics would be correct in venerating Mary. For this would MAKE Mary the MOTHER of God Himself. And this is a SHEAR impossibility. For we have NEVER been offered ANY indication of the 'creation' of God Himself. For He IS eternal so far as we have been offered.

We have been offered that SINCE Christ, His kingdom will last forever. But we have NEVER been TOLD that Christ has ALWAYS been. We even have the words that state that Christ witnessed the FALL of Satan. Indicating that it was NOT through HIS power that Satan was 'cast out', but that HE mearly WITNESSED it. That HE had NOT taken on the mission of Satan's destruction until a 'LATER DATE'.

Christ's 'temptation' in the desert is an OBVIOUS confrontation between the Son of God and Satan. And Christ using God's Word to 'overcome' temptation. Offering us the PERFECT example of HOW we TOO are to battle Satan's temptations.

Christ even offered that He was NOT God Himself in the words that He offered in that: 'there is ONLY ONE THAT IS GOOD, and that IS the Father who IS in Heaven'. The Father is GREATER than I. FATHER forgive them for they know NOT what they do. My Father, why hath thou forsaken me? Our Father, who ART in Heaven.......... There is SO much that refutes the 'teaching' of trinity that I am baffled at the 'whole-hearted' acceptance of this 'man-made' doctrine.

God IS THE ONE TRUE GOD. Is Christ 'a god'? We can assume that this title could be placed upon HIm in the respect that there are 'gods many'. But the ONE TRUE God? There is ONLY ONE. And there is ONLY One Son of God. There are three ways in which God has revealed Himself to mankind. As Our Father, through His Son who came and gave WITNESS of God; His Father, and The Spirit which is NOW able to reveal the TRUTH to those that are willing to accept and follow His Word. There are NOT 'three persons'. There are TWO. Father and Son. The Spirit is the MEANS that we have to be convicted of God's words.

We KNOW that God IS Spirit. Yet The Spirit is simply a 'part' of God. NOT God Himself. For it would be a contradiction for God to BE The Holy Spirit. For the Holy Spirit is ABLE to comune with mankind, yet God refuses to commune with sin. Finds it SO disgusting that He won't even ACKNOWLEDGE those that are 'carnal' by nature. ANOTHER pure indication that the Son and the Father are NOT the 'same' God Himself. Christ IS the mediator. The 'go between' between US and God.

Those that have 'bought into' this 'trinity' concept have insisted that it 'comes from' the TOTALITY of scripture. I disagree. I contend that it is a 'man-made' idea that uses 'bits and pieces' of scripture in an 'attempt' to prove it. For IF the TOTALITY of scripture is absorbed, there is NO contradiction offered within it. And 'trinity' offers MUCH that contradicts the words offered by God. Not ONLY through the prophets, but through the apostles and the Son Himself. For Christ has offered us the TRUTH in that what He came to fulfill was the WILL of God in an offering of Himself as sacrifice for US, and the Word of God as offer Him by HIS FATHER, (God). And by accomplishing God's will, He now sits at the 'right hand of God', (His Father).

MEC

 

[wavy]

The WORD represents Jesus

When John penned John 1:1, I believe that what he was trying to do was to show that this same person, Jesus, who they saw walk the earth, was the same person who they knew to be God in the Old Testament. Do a search on "The Word" in the Old Testament and you will find many times that the Word came as a person and talked to people face to face in the Old Testament. For example:

1 Sam 3:21
21 Then the LORD appeared again in Shiloh. For the LORD revealed Himself to Samuel in Shiloh by the word of the LORD.
NKJV

2 Sam 7:4-6
4 But it happened that night that the word of the LORD came to Nathan, saying, 5 "Go and tell My servant David, 'Thus says the LORD: "Would you build a house for Me to dwell in?
NKJV

Moses said, "This is the thing which the LORD has commanded you to do, that the glory of the LORD may appear to you." (lev ix.6)


Awake, awake, put on strength, O arm of the LORD; Awake as in the days of old, the generations of long ago Was it not You who cut Rahab in pieces, Who pierced the dragon? (isa li.9)


The anger of the LORD will not turn back Until He has performed and carried out the purposes of His heart; In the last days you will clearly understand it. (jer xxiii.20)


there's nothing special about these expressions that would imply a 'person' called either 'glory' or 'anger' or 'arm' or 'word'.


~eric

 

[DanR]

Funny, all this 'belief' in Jesus IS God. For Christ Himself offered that He was NOT God Himself, but God's Son. When Christ offered that the words that He offered WERE NOT HIS OWN, but given Him by the Father, how much clearer must it be stated that The Word IS the Word of God. That the 'title' Word was NEVER given by Christ. Just the opposite in FACT. And If John's writting contradicts what Christ HIMSELF stated, then it's OBVIOUS that there has been a 'misunderstanding' of what he wrote.

And 'where' did this 'belief' come from? Philosophers and mystics. Men determined to 'create' their OWN 'religious system' REGARDLESS of what has been offered through The Word....

MEC

To clarify this once again:

In Revelation, 19:13, we are clearly given that one of the names of Christ is 'the Word of God':

'And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.'

among other passages.