Incest in the Bible

[bibleberean]

Ezekiel 23

The whole chapter is describing the sin of idolatry of the two nations Samaria and Israel. The two nations became senseless and apathetic so that no amount of decent admonition would work with them. There was no amount of nice words that would cause them to recognise the gravity of their sin, the sin of idolatry. So the prophet had to use this language to make his point. Such strong language needed to be used to burn into their hearts and minds like acid the message of the prophet.

Since the beginning of the nation of Israel they have been unfaithful to the God who delivered them out of the land of Egypt. At that "time they made an idol in the form of a calf. They brought sacrifices to it and held a celebration in honour of what their hands had made. ... This agrees with what is written in the book of the prophets: 'Did you bring me sacrifices and offerings forty years in the desert, O house of Israel? You have lifted up the shrine of Moloch and the star of your god Rephan, the idols you made to worship." (Acts 7:41-43) The children of Israel were violating the first and the most important commandment, which says, "I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. You shall have no other gods before me. You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. You shall not bow down to them or worship them." (Exodus 20:2-4)

Had DivineNames taken the time to read the whole chapter he would have recognised the main message of the prophet Ezekiel.

Here is the summary of that chapter:

• "You shall pay the penality for your lewd conduct and be punished for your idolatry, and you will know that I am the Lord God." (Ezekiel 23:49)

Had the prophet gone to them and preached against idol worship in more ordinary tones that would have had less effect. But he used the image of a harlot and sexual acts to portray the sordidness of the sin of worshipping idols. It is a language that makes people take note.

Did you?

-source-

Good post and points Gary. :D

 

[JamesLovesGod]

Genesis 19:30-38 talks about how Lot's daughters got him drunk and slept with him while he was asleep astughfirullah. I'm just curious what some Christians here feel about the passages as it in indeed filled with disgusting incest slandering the Prophet Lot.

To my small ammount of knowledge Incest is a man made Law. We are all brothers and sisters in this world, so wouldnt that mean we commit incest anyway? God created Adam And Eve, he didn't create Adam, Eve, Steve, Jude, mary, james, mike ect. If he wanted incest to be a law would he have not created 5 People that arn't related?

 

[DivineNames]

So the prophet had to use this language to make his point.

Whatever Ezekiel was on about, you are grasping at straws. The believer can always find some supposed "justification" for what their scripture says...

 

[bibleberean]

Genesis 19:30-38 talks about how Lot's daughters got him drunk and slept with him while he was asleep astughfirullah. I'm just curious what some Christians here feel about the passages as it in indeed filled with disgusting incest slandering the Prophet Lot.

To my small ammount of knowledge Incest is a man made Law. We are all brothers and sisters in this world, so wouldnt that mean we commit incest anyway? God created Adam And Eve, he didn't create Adam, Eve, Steve, Jude, mary, james, mike ect. If he wanted incest to be a law would he have not created 5 People that arn't related?

For an interesting read go to this site and read the article

"Where did Cain get his wife"?

http://christiananswers.net/q-aig/aig-c004.html

Excerpt

"Many people immediately reject the conclusion that Adam and Eve's sons and daughters married each other by appealing to the law against brother-sister intermarriage. Some say that you cannot marry your relation.

Actually, if you don't marry your relation, you don't marry a human! A wife is related to her husband even before they marry because all people are descendants of Adam and Eve -- all are of "one blood."

The law forbidding marriage between close relatives was not given until the time of Moses (Leviticus 18-20). Provided marriage was one man to one woman for life (based on Genesis 1 and 2), there was no disobedience to God's law originally when close relatives (even brothers and sisters) married each other."

 

[DivineNames]

all people are descendants of Adam and Eve

:D

 

[bibleberean]

all people are descendants of Adam and Eve

:D

And bibleberean is right. :-D

 

[DivineNames]

all people are descendants of Adam and Eve

:D

And bibleberean is right. :-D

sure you are...

and there was a (talking) serpent in the Garden of Eden, which convinced Eve to eat some fruit and offer some to Adam, and that was the fall of humanity. That is why we needed Jesus to die on the cross... it all makes perfect sense...

:D

 

[Lyric's Dad]

all people are descendants of Adam and Eve

:D

And bibleberean is right. :-D

sure you are...

and there was a (talking) serpent in the Garden of Eden, which convinced Eve to eat some fruit and offer some to Adam, and that was the fall of humanity. That is why we needed Jesus to die on the cross... it all makes perfect sense...

:D

No, it does not make a bit of sense if you are still lost in sin and without the Spirit to indwell you and reveal truth. Without that, there is not one person who can comprehend these truths.

 

[DivineNames]

sure you are...

and there was a (talking) serpent in the Garden of Eden, which convinced Eve to eat some fruit and offer some to Adam, and that was the fall of humanity. That is why we needed Jesus to die on the cross... it all makes perfect sense...

:D

With regard to the kind of myth found in Genesis, I have seen a Rabbi say that only children or the mentally handicapped should be encouraged to take it literally...

 

[Lyric's Dad]

sure you are...

and there was a (talking) serpent in the Garden of Eden, which convinced Eve to eat some fruit and offer some to Adam, and that was the fall of humanity. That is why we needed Jesus to die on the cross... it all makes perfect sense...

:D

With regard to the kind of myth found in Genesis, I have seen a Rabbi say that only children or the mentally handicapped should be encouraged to take it literally...

Second hand information. Not that this one persons opinion really matters as he is without obvious understanding of God but do you have a link or something to back this claim?

 

[Solo]

(14) But she carried her prostitution still further. She saw men portrayed on a wall, figures of Chaldeans portrayed in red,

(15) with belts around their waists and flowing turbans on their heads; all of them looked like Babylonian chariot officers, natives of Chaldea.

(16) As soon as she saw them, she lusted after them and sent messengers to them in Chaldea.

(17) Then the Babylonians came to her, to the bed of love, and in their lust they defiled her. After she had been defiled by them, she turned away from them in disgust.

(18) When she carried on her prostitution openly and exposed her nakedness, I turned away from her in disgust, just as I had turned away from her sister.

(19) Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt.

(20) There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.

Truly revolting, why does God need to make a comparison about lovers who's genitals are like those of donkeys, and emissions like those of horses with the idol worship of the two nations. Would you use this language infront of your children, or would you ever hear this type of language in a church, when talking about idolatory? Theres truly is no justification for this type of language in a supposed book of God.

Perhaps God was trying to show that the prostitute was so overtaken in her lust and lifestyle that she was becoming more and more reprobate as time went on, and that her flesh was insatiable so that she desired more and more. If the information relayed was less detailed, the point would not have been made, and if it was recorded that the prostitutes lover's genitals were like small rabbits with an emission like a slow drip from a leaking faucet, it would have been a lie. God can reveal and tell me anything that he wishes because he is so much wiser than I, and his ways are so much higher than mine; and rest assured, the evil one, the devil himself would like all to linger on the difficulties in their understanding than to dwell on the goodness and love of God Almighty.

 

[DivineNames]

If the information relayed was less detailed, the point would not have been made

How on earth would you know? What proof is there that those kind of terms needed to be used?

Of course, I may not be able to prove that there definitely wasn't some desirable and good reason for talking about donkey sized ***** that ejaculate like horses, but-

(A) It looks very dubious.

(B) There is no objective basis for claiming the language was necessary.

(C) We know that some Christians, because of their religious commitment, are going to try and justify anything in the Bible, because they see it as the word of God.

God can reveal and tell me anything that he wishes because he is so much wiser than I

Exactly. You are unlikely to question it because of your religious commitment.

 

[DivineNames]

Second hand information. Not that this one persons opinion really matters as he is without obvious understanding of God but do you have a link or something to back this claim?

Sorry, but I can't remember the name of the Rabbi in question.

However-

"Judaism has a long tradition of not interpreting the creation narative of Genesis 1 literally. Rambam [Maimonides], for example, warns at the beginning of his Mishneh Torah that the literal reading of the opening of Bereshis [Genesis] is for the masses. (The non-literal reading he had in mind was metaphysical, not scientific. See "The Guide for the Perplexed".)Both literalism and non-literalism have a long history, yielding a variety of resolutions of the problem of creation and science."

http://www.faqs.org/faqs/judaism/FAQ/06-Jewish-Thought/

 

[DivineNames]

Not that this one persons opinion really matters as he is without obvious understanding of God

But you do believe that C.S. Lewis had an understanding of God?

"He was a great man of God. A sinner sure, but someone who truly loved and understood the Lord."

And C.S. Lewis tended to believe that parts of the Old Testament were not to be understood literally. (see "Miracles".)

 

[Solo]

If the information relayed was less detailed, the point would not have been made

How on earth would you know? What proof is there that those kind of terms needed to be used?

Of course, I may not be able to prove that there definitely wasn't some desirable and good reason for talking about donkey sized ***** that ejaculate like horses, but-

(A) It looks very dubious.

(B) There is no objective basis for claiming the language was necessary.

(C) We know that some Christians, because of their religious commitment, are going to try and justify anything in the Bible, because they see it as the word of God.

God can reveal and tell me anything that he wishes because he is so much wiser than I

Exactly. You are unlikely to question it because of your religious commitment.

I was concise and to the point in my previous point. I have no problem understanding the intent of the Ezekiel scripture, and I have no opposition to the language used. I find that the final estate of unbelievers is much more horrendous than the Ezekiel 23:20 scripture. The Bible is the Word of God and nothing in it is dubious to me. Let me encourage you to read the Bible with a non-skeptical attitude.

The following translations of Ezekiel 23:20 show the consistancy of the words translated from the original Hebrew:

For she doted upon their paramours, whose flesh is as the flesh of asses, and whose issue is like the issue of horses. King James Version

For she doted upon their paramours, whose flesh is as the flesh of asses and whose issue is like the issue of horses. Third Millennium Bible

and lusted after her paramours there, whose members were like those of donkeys, and whose emission was like that of stallions. New Revised Standard

and doted upon her paramours there, whose members were like those of asses, and whose issue was like that of horses. Revised Standard Version

She was filled with lust for oversexed men who had all the lustfulness of donkeys or stallions. Good News Translation

And she was mad with lust after lying with them whose flesh is as the flesh of asses: and whose issue as the issue of horses. Douay-Rheims Bible

Yes, she lusted after their male prostitutes, whose members are like those of donkeys and who ejaculate like stallions. The Complete Jewish Bible

She doted on their paramours, whose flesh is as the flesh of donkeys, and whose issue is like the issue of horses. Hebrew Names Version

She doted on their paramours, whose flesh is as the flesh of donkeys, and whose issue is like the issue of horses. World English Bible

And she was full of desire for her lovers, whose flesh is like the flesh of asses and whose seed is like the seed of horses. The Bible in Basic English

And she doteth on their paramours, Whose flesh [is] the flesh of asses, And the issue of horses -- their issue. Young's Literal Translation

and she lusted after their paramours, whose flesh is [as] the flesh of asses, and whose issue is [as] the issue of horses. Darby Translation

For she doted upon their paramours, whose flesh [is as] the flesh of asses, and whose issue [is like] the issue of horses. Webster's Bible Translation

et insanivit libidine super concubitu eorum quorum carnes sunt ut carnes asinorum et sicut fluxus equorum fluxus eorum The Latin Vulgate



For she doted upon their paramours, whose flesh is as the flesh of asses, and whose issue is like the issue of horses. King James with Strong Numbers concordance definitions.

For she `agab (lusted) upon their Piylegesh (illicit lovers) whose Basar (male organ of generation) is as the Basar (male organ of generation) of Chamowr (male asses), and whose Zirmah (seminal discharge) is like the Zirmah (seminal discharge) of Cuwc (horses).

Ezekiel 16 records God's thoughts on the whoredoms depicted in Ezekiel 23.

25 Thou hast built thy high place at every head of the way, and hast made thy beauty to be abhorred, and hast opened thy feet to every one that passed by, and multiplied thy whoredoms. 26 Thou hast also committed fornication with the Egyptians thy neighbours, great of flesh; and hast increased thy whoredoms, to provoke me to anger. Ezekiel 16:25-26

 

[DivineNames]

The Bible is the Word of God and nothing in it is dubious to me.

"Exactly. You are unlikely to question it because of your religious commitment"

I find that the final estate of unbelievers is much more horrendous than the Ezekiel 23:20 scripture.

"The unbelievers will be punished"

And according to Islam I would go to hell if I believed in the Trinity...


:D

 

[DivineNames]

I was concise and to the point in my previous point. I have no problem understanding the intent of the Ezekiel scripture, and I have no opposition to the language used...

The following translations of Ezekiel 23:20 show the consistancy of the words translated from the original Hebrew...

By the way, this does nothing to provide any kind of objective basis for a claim that the language in question is necessary.

 

[Solo]

I was concise and to the point in my previous point. I have no problem understanding the intent of the Ezekiel scripture, and I have no opposition to the language used...

The following translations of Ezekiel 23:20 show the consistancy of the words translated from the original Hebrew...

By the way, this does nothing to provide any kind of objective basis for a claim that the language in question is necessary.

The language is necessary for a complete understanding for those that are spiritually mature to understand, and have put in much time studying the Word of God.

An uneducated person or a first grade student wouldn't understand college algebra. In the same manner, not all persons will understand some levels of the Bible. The Bible has wisdom for all maturity levels using the same books. God is amazing in his provision for his creation.

Even a first grade student must believe that the teacher is telling the truth. If the teacher is teaching the students 1 + 1 = 2, and the student refuses to believe that 2 is the right answer and continues to come up with 1 + 1 = 590, then the student is wrong and the teacher will not allow him to pass onto the next level of math. If an individual is being approached by the holy Spirit with the truth about Jesus Christ and the individual refuses to believe, then the individual will be wrong and will not be allowed to understand further truths of God's kingdom.

 

[DivineNames]

The language is necessary for a complete understanding for those that are spiritually mature to understand, and have put in much time studying the Word of God.

Yes, when you are spiritually mature you see that God had to inspire talk about donkey sized *****. I'm sure this is true...

Nevertheless, this doesn't show any kind of objective basis for the claim that to talk about such things was necessary.

 

[Solo]

The language is necessary for a complete understanding for those that are spiritually mature to understand, and have put in much time studying the Word of God.

Yes, when you are spiritually mature you see that God had to inspire talk about donkey sized *****. I'm sure this is true...

Nevertheless, this doesn't show any kind of objective basis for the claim that to talk about such things was necessary.

When you come to know Jesus Christ as your savior and establish a relationship with him, you will begin your journey onto a higher plane of understanding.

Your current understanding of what the verse of scripture in Ezekiel means is lacking, but when you study the entire book of Ezekiel with the guidance of the holy Spirit you will become better equipped to discuss the topic. When you come to trust God the creator as your redeemer through Jesus Christ, you will no longer be skeptical of the Word of God.

Thanks.