Infant Baptism.

[Douglas Summers]

I believe in infant baptism. Since another person has to perform it, I don't think belief is necessary for either the person receiving the baptism nor the person performing it. There may be an issue of repentance on the person receiving it, but I have not reached a conclusion on that yet.

It really does not make it correct doctrine on what we believe or not believe, it is what God puts forth, commands and creates that are pertinent to our souls. God leaves nothing up to self willed beliefs. It was left up to Christ to bring life and immortality to lite through the Gospel.(2 Tim. 1:9-10) Life comes from faith in Christ alone....not by any physical and self willed ordinances that satisfy the flesh.

 

[barelohim]

Quote:Abortion is "the intentional destruction of a preborn human being." Dan Fisher" Unquote

Abortion can only destroy the flesh, it can't touch the spirit of the little one. These little ones that die, the Lord says.. " That they continually are before His face."

 

[barelohim]

It really does not make it correct doctrine on what we believe or not believe, it is what God puts forth, commands and creates that are pertinent to our souls. God leaves nothing up to self willed beliefs. It was left up to Christ to bring life and immortality to lite through the Gospel.(2 Tim. 1:9-10) Life comes from faith in Christ alone....not by any physical and self willed ordinances that satisfy the flesh.

Mark 1:Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the [1] gospel of God,
15 and saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe in the [1] gospel.
John 3:15 that whosoever [1] believeth may in him have eternal life.
Romans 10: [1] because if thou shalt [2] confess with thy mouth Jesus as Lord, and shalt believe in thy heart that God raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved:*n5
10 for with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, [1] Whosoever believeth on him shall not be put to shame.*n6
You hear it, you believe it, it is done!

 

[1Genesis]

Can you provide the Scripture reference where it is clearly stated that belief precedes baptism?

Mark 16:16

 

[1Genesis]

Copied From/
Baptism: Some Common Questions Answered]
......Also, in Acts 10:43, Peter tells the Gentiles at Cornelius’ house: “Of Him [Christ] all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins.” Again he does not mention baptism as a requirement for forgiveness.

So how do we explain Acts 2:38? We must understand the close connection in the minds of the apostles between belief and baptism. Peter expected water baptism to be the inevitable result of repentance. To say, “I repent and believe in Jesus” but to refuse to be baptized would call one’s repentance and faith into question. So Peter adds baptism as the naturally understood consequence of repentance; but it is not the baptism, but repentance (which is inextricably bound up with saving faith), that brings forgiveness. Baptism is the outward sign of the inward belief.




Copied From/ Baptism: Some Common Questions Answered]

.....
4. Who should be baptized? Should we baptize infants?
The clear teaching of Scripture is that all who believe in Christ as Savior and Lord should be baptized in obedience to Christ. The New Testament order is always: The preaching of the gospel of Jesus Christ; acceptance of the message by faith on the part of the hearers; then, baptism. Never once is there an instance of baptism preceding faith as the norm to be followed. And there are no examples or commands concerning the baptism of the infants or yet unbelieving children of believing parents. Consider the following verses from Acts, noting the order of belief first, then baptism:

 

[WIP]

Mark 16:16

Show me how this verse defines the order of events. The word "and" is a conjunction which makes a connection between two statements.

I describe myself as tall and thin. Does that mean that I was tall before I became thin? I can assure you that is not the case for I was thin long before I got tall.
A and B or B and A? Either way the result is the same. However, A then B or B then A? There is a world of difference.

Mark 16:16 indicates that both are needed to satisfy the requirement. I don't see how it defines the order of events.

 

[1Genesis]

Show me how this verse defines the order of events. The word "and" is a conjunction which makes a connection between two statements.

I describe myself as tall and thin. Does that mean that I was tall before I became thin? I can assure you that is not the case for I was thin long before I got tall.
A and B or B and A? Either way the result is the same. However, A then B or B then A? There is a world of difference.

Mark 16:16 indicates that both are needed to satisfy the requirement. I don't see how it defines the order of events.

I provided the verse and the article that sustained the verse and beyond. I hope the article helps you to realize it would be a bit silly for early Jews during Christ's ministry to be baptized for no reason.
Whereas belief, as the article and the many references within indicate, precedes baptism. Because the reason for the baptism is detailed.

 

[chessman]

How come Acts2:38; 22:16 and Gal.3:26, 27 doesn't mention Holy Spirit baptism

They do, in context, as previously posted.

Take Acts 2, for example:

Therefore, having been exalted to the right hand of God and having received the promise of the Holy Spirit from the Father, he has poured out this that you see and hear.​

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Acts 2:33&version=LEB

Pouring out the Holy Spirit on someone is them receiving the Holy Spirit (i.e. Holy Spirit baptism).

Acts 22 is Paul retelling the story of his conversion in Damscus to a crowd whereby he received his sight back AND the Holy Spirit.

And now why are you delaying? Get up, be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on his name!’​

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Acts 22:16&version=LEB

You assume he means water baptism in the verse above . He does not. He means Holy Spirit baptism. All you have to do is read his previous (more detailed) account:

So Ananias departed and entered into the house, and placing his hands on him, he said, “Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road by which you came, has sent me so that you may regain your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.”​

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Acts 9:17&version=LEB

Etc.

 

[GodsGrace]

One thing I've learned to appreciate about you. We've all had a journey and should respect that in others. And we should demand the same back. I've read I John but still want to know what others think and then also to say what I think.

I often (think out loud) meaning I can't process through an idea well unless I say it out loud. Then, hearing the thoughts of others, I can process the idea deeper, or see a flaw in my thinking, or just remain confused.

I love the question of what it means to be in Christ. It's simple but complex. Simple because being in Christ is to follow him - his lead, his examples for life. Complex because it runs much deeper than that. Now I'll be thinking about this all day.

I have a feeling everyone here has read John and all the other books too.
They say never to use the words "all" or "everyone", etc... but I'll bet 90%.
Everyone here is so knowledgeable.

I also like to discuss and talk. My doctrine won't change anymore at this point, but there's always some enlightenment that could be waiting for us. There's so much to know...

I also believe in respecting others. Including those that may not go to a church I care for, as long as it's possible to speak to each other.

I truly doubt you're confused about anything important. We're all confused about something. I'm confused about you're thread's idea. Why does the Holy Spirit not teach all of us the same concepts??

And being In Christ, I agree with your assessment.
Christ is the LIFE.
Christ is the LIGHT.
Christ is the spark that makes us alive as God would want us to be.
So being IN CHRIST means that we possess that spark of light necessary to give us eternal life. No one is truly alive UNLESS they are In Christ.
In Him we can return to having a relationship with our heavenly Father.
What say you?

P.S. I wasn't screaming up there.
I tried underlining -- it takes too long!

 

[GodsGrace]

I'm not so sure about this. If the fuse is blown or a wire disconnected or the switch is connected to a different light, you may believe the switch will turn on a particular light but reality may be somewhat different.

Believing in God and actually knowing God I believe are not the same thing. I believe this is in part what Jesus speaks of as recorded in Matthew 7.
“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’ Matthew 7:21-23 NKJV

Hi WIP
When I use the word "believe", I mean believe as is understood in the Greek language of the bible. You must surely know what that is.

If I believe an escalator is going to take me to the top floor, I'll get on it.
Same with Jesus. If we believe in Him, we will follow Him. Believe means to trust and to follow and to have faith in and to obey.

So believing God in the way you're saying it would be correct in understanding that the enemy also believes in Jesus.

But if we believe the way the N.T. means for us to believe and how the Greek meant it, then, no, the enemy does not believe as we do. He does not follow Jesus, nor obey Him, nor trust Him, etc.

So BELIEVING (I'm not screaming) is the same as KNOWING.
You can only BELIEVE in someone you KNOW, as per the Greek.

As to Mathew 7:21-23 ,,, yes, it could definitely mean what you said.
I also like to look at the very next verse:
Mathew 7:23b...
"Depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness."
NASB

Maybe they were doing some type of works in Jesus' name, but they were also being lawless, or disobedient??

 

[Papa Zoom]

I have a feeling everyone here has read John and all the other books too.
They say never to use the words "all" or "everyone", etc... but I'll bet 90%.
Everyone here is so knowledgeable.

I also like to discuss and talk. My doctrine won't change anymore at this point, but there's always some enlightenment that could be waiting for us. There's so much to know...

I also believe in respecting others. Including those that may not go to a church I care for, as long as it's possible to speak to each other.

I truly doubt you're confused about anything important. We're all confused about something. I'm confused about you're thread's idea. Why does the Holy Spirit not teach all of us the same concepts??

And being In Christ, I agree with your assessment.
Christ is the LIFE.
Christ is the LIGHT.
Christ is the spark that makes us alive as God would want us to be.
So being IN CHRIST means that we possess that spark of light necessary to give us eternal life. No one is truly alive UNLESS they are In Christ.
In Him we can return to having a relationship with our heavenly Father.
What say you?

P.S. I wasn't screaming up there.
I tried underlining -- it takes too long!

I was thinking, perhaps the Holy Spirit does teach us the same concepts but also perhaps many of us just aren't listening.

And I didn't read your CAPS as screaming. I read isolated caps as emphasis. Underlying is a simple click. Just like Shift will capatalize a letter, "Ctrl u" pressed together underlines and Ctrl i makes italics and Ctrl b makes bold. you have to do it once to turn on and once to turn off. You can even do all three! Easy peasy! Maybe you knew that. If so, I'm just showing off. I don't mind using those features. But I think the record shows I usually utilize the caps. One click to the left. ;)

I'm not so much confused on what I believe as forever examining it and asking questions and wondering. Just when I think I've settled an issue, I read a passage and it's "oh, oh" all over again.

 

[GodsGrace]

I was thinking, perhaps the Holy Spirit does teach us the same concepts but also perhaps many of us just aren't listening.

And I didn't read your CAPS as screaming. I read isolated caps as emphasis. Underlying is a simple click. Just like Shift will capatalize a letter, "Ctrl u" pressed together underlines and Ctrl i makes italics and Ctrl b makes bold. you have to do it once to turn on and once to turn off. You can even do all three! Easy peasy! Maybe you knew that. If so, I'm just showing off. I don't mind using those features. But I think the record shows I usually utilize the caps. One click to the left. ;)

I did know all that!!
Executive Secy
Admin. Asst.
I knew toooo much!!
My way takes one touch.
One click to the left, as you've stated.
Efficiency, efficiency...

How come everyone can type these days?
I'll bet my payscale has been lowered?
Maybe not...

Anyway, it's good to share knowledge...

 

[GodsGrace]

I was thinking, perhaps the Holy Spirit does teach us the same concepts but also perhaps many of us just aren't listening.

And I didn't read your CAPS as screaming. I read isolated caps as emphasis. Underlying is a simple click. Just like Shift will capatalize a letter, "Ctrl u" pressed together underlines and Ctrl i makes italics and Ctrl b makes bold. you have to do it once to turn on and once to turn off. You can even do all three! Easy peasy! Maybe you knew that. If so, I'm just showing off. I don't mind using those features. But I think the record shows I usually utilize the caps. One click to the left. ;)

I'm not so much confused on what I believe as forever examining it and asking questions and wondering. Just when I think I've settled an issue, I read a passage and it's "oh, oh" all over again.

Are those cute girls yours?
I'll be you're a nice poppy.

 

[Papa Zoom]

I did know all that!!
Executive Secy
Admin. Asst.
I knew toooo much!!
My way takes one touch.
One click to the left, as you've stated.
Efficiency, efficiency...

How come everyone can type these days?
I'll bet my payscale has been lowered?
Maybe not...

Anyway, it's good to share knowledge...

I went back to school at 34. My dear wife told me I was on my own for typing all my college papers. She was proficient at typing, I was not. But I learned quickly. I can now out type her. However, she is still my go to spell checker and proof reader. She's an English major and when it comes to some academic things, she leaves me in the dust.

 

[barelohim]

I have a feeling everyone here has read John and all the other books too.
They say never to use the words "all" or "everyone", etc... but I'll bet 90%.
Everyone here is so knowledgeable.

I also like to discuss and talk. My doctrine won't change anymore at this point, but there's always some enlightenment that could be waiting for us. There's so much to know...

I also believe in respecting others. Including those that may not go to a church I care for, as long as it's possible to speak to each other.

I truly doubt you're confused about anything important. We're all confused about something. I'm confused about you're thread's idea. Why does the Holy Spirit not teach all of us the same concepts??

And being In Christ, I agree with your assessment.
Christ is the LIFE.
Christ is the LIGHT.
Christ is the spark that makes us alive as God would want us to be.
So being IN CHRIST means that we possess that spark of light necessary to give us eternal life. No one is truly alive UNLESS they are In Christ.
In Him we can return to having a relationship with our heavenly Father.
What say you?

P.S. I wasn't screaming up there.
I tried underlining -- it takes too long!

If you were in a relationship with Jesus you would be in a relationship with the Father.
Jesus is the Father, the Provider, the Protector, the Healer, the Justifier, the Redeemer, the All in All.

 

[Papa Zoom]

Are those cute girls yours?
I'll be you're a nice poppy.

Yes, but they've grown now. My loves. When they were young: "Papa! Papa!" Today, "Hi Papa, bye Papa." ;)

 

[GodsGrace]

If you were in a relationship with Jesus you would be in a relationship with the Father.
Jesus is the Father, the Provider, the Protector, the Healer, the Justifier, the Redeemer, the All in All.

This would get into the Trinity.
But we do have a human way of talking.

Jesus came to restore our relationship with God.
This doesn't mean that Jesus is not God.
So yes, if we have a relationship with Jesus, we also have
a relationship with God.

But what do you think of the idea that Jesus is our covering?
Why would we need a covering?
Galatians 3:27
Romans 13:14

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes, but they've grown now. My loves. When they were young: "Papa! Papa!" Today, "Hi Papa, bye Papa." ;)

Nice girls.
Smart, alert, nice and of good character.

Oooh. And fashionable too !
( I hope they know our Lord or will someday)

 

[1Genesis]

If you were in a relationship with Jesus you would be in a relationship with the Father.
Jesus is the Father, the Provider, the Protector, the Healer, the Justifier, the Redeemer, the All in All.

The comma Johannemum can cause a lot of confusion in the Greek translation to English scriptures.
1 John 5:7-8 “ For there are three that testify, 5:8 the Spirit and the water and the blood, and these three are in agreement.”

Copied from/
The Textual Problem in 1 John 5:7-8
Before τὸ πνεῦμα καὶ τὸ ὕδωρ καὶ τὸ αἷμα, the Textus Receptus reads ἐν τῷ οὐρανῷ, ὁ πατήρ, ὁ λόγος, καὶ τὸ ἅγιον πνεῦμα, καὶ οὗτοι οἱ τρεῖς ἕν εἰσι. 5·8 καὶ τρεῖς εἰσιν οἱ μαρτυροῦντες ἐν τῇ γῇ (“in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit, and these three are one. 5:8 And there are three that testify on earth”). This reading, the infamous Comma Johanneum, has been known in the English-speaking world through the King James translation. However, the evidence—both external and internal—is decidedly against its authenticity. Our discussion will briefly address the external evidence.1

 

[chessman]

Maybe they were doing some type of works in Jesus' name, but they were also being lawless, or disobedient?

More likely is the case that this passage actually depicts what is recorded. That is, they "SAY" (slightly elevated volume and elongated pronunciation for emphasis as opposed to actually doing) that they'd done the works of God, but hadn't actually done His will AND therefore had NEVER actually been known (Biblically speaking means intimately knowing) by God:

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many miracles in your name?’ And then I will say to them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Depart from me, you who practice lawlessness!’​

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Matthew 7:21-23&version=LEB

Sometimes people lie.