[_ Old Earth _] Instant experts

[Loren Michael]

(You'd need to prove old ages which you can't do for starters)

could you elaborate on that please? i'm not quite sure what you're referring to.

 

[dad]

(You'd need to prove old ages which you can't do for starters)

could you elaborate on that please? i'm not quite sure what you're referring to.

Well, the fact that creation may be adapting, or as some prefer the term, evolving, does not mean we were not created. For example, after the fall, some 'evolving' into meat eaters from plant eaters may have occured.
But this has nothing to do with coming from a bacteria. (Or whatever technical name is better)
As for the 'old ages' here what I refer to is ages beyond the several thousand years since creation. The billions of imagined years that would be required to adapt and evolve at present rates. This time did not exist, I contend, and in no way can be proved.

 

[SyntaxVorlon]

Since we've observed speciation you're going to have to push the goal posts to genus-branching for that argument to hold water.

 

[dad]

Since we've observed speciation you're going to have to push the goal posts to genus-branching for that argument to hold water.

What have we observed, actually? Something like a mouse on some island that adapts or 'evolves' as needed into another type of mouse, big deal. Gee, it can no longer breed with the kind of mouse it used to be, this means it is a new species, etc/ blah blah. In reality, we basically see some adapting going on, or evolving, if you prefer. What does that got to do with claiming the mouse, and us all came from 'Granny Bacteria' (the so called first lifeform)? Nothing! Your reply holds no water.

 

[Heidi]

So if evolution is a fact, what has evolved? :o How are humans any superior today when we are closer to annihilating ourselves than ever before, there are more STD's, crime, greed, gluttony, polution, and most importantly, people think we come from apes, than they were thousands of years ago? :o Even the technology we have today is because of the generations of thinkers that preceded us! So how are we born superior? :o Why are there still defective babies in the offspring of all living things?

The theory of evolution stems from the sin of pride, period. It is man's arrogance that claims that he is not only superior to the previous generations, but that he can defy God and claim he knows where man came from! Only the prurient human imagination can come up with the notion that animals breed human beings. This type of mind cannot see the miraculousness of the universe and the human creation, but can only correlate it with animals who grunt, groan, and focus on bodily gratification. That's all that evolutionists see men as. And that is why they call men animals. I'm terribly sorry for this type of person who cannot see past the animal instincts of man in themselves. They haven't a clue what they're missing! Not a clue.

 

[Imagican]

Instant Scientists?

Come on Heidi. Really? So, those that are willing to spend the time that it takes to get an education are 'Instant Scientists'? Once again, I see the same mentality. The same person that would not hesitate to have an x-ray done of a broken bone, or pop something into their microwave oven, or jump in their car to drive to church, or wiggle their mouse to end their screensaver, will ultimately choose to deny science that conflicts with their tradition based beliefs.

Evolution is not even debatable as fact. It has been proven over and over. We can see it in our lives right here right now.

These same people that refute evolution are the same ones that taught us that the earth was flat. Or that the earth was the center of the universe.

Science is NOTHING more than our feeble attempt to understand the methods that God used to 'create'. Nothing more, nothing less. Just because there are those 'scientist' that refuse to accept this, doesn't change the 'science' in the least.

Science isn't new folks. It has been a long gradual process which we will NEVER fully understand. This lack of fulfillment however doesn't stop us from understanding what we can. Landing a man on the moon took a lot of science and a lot of luck. But it happened.

I have no doubt that much that we seek to understand probably goes against God's desire for us. Our freedom of choice often does. He hasn't stopped us yet and that is a prime indication that it is His will that we begin an understanding of His creation. It's our use of this understanding that will be the ultimate judge of our understanding. Not whether or not it exist.

Much had to evolve before this planet was ready for man. The only thing that allows traditionalist to deny this is a literal six day creation. Obviously the problem is this misinterpretation. Obviously, for the earth to have gone through the changes that it has, it is much much older than the churches originally taught. They have taught much that is wrong and that has been proven to be wrong. Nothing new here. Six 'literal' days of creation is just another example.

If the earth is ten billion years old, this does not in the least refute God's Word. It only refutes the simple teachings of an ignorant church. And with their track record of mistakes and misinterpretation, why would anyone choose to place their faith in them?

I DO NOT offer science as an alternative. Place your faith in God with the understanding that His understanding is beyond ours at this time. But that doesn't change the FACT that we were created with intelligence and no amount of denial of such will change this FACT in the least. What a wonderful God indeed that gifted us with such a vast capability to understand. So much in fact, that one day we too will understand as He does.

 

[Imagican]

Oh, and before you try to attack what I have offered, let me add this:

Man HAS evolved. Out physical bodies have been altered by time and environment. NO, man did NOT come from ape. MAN IS MAN and APE IS APE. But we have certainly been on the planet long enough for us to evolve into different creatures than those FIRST created. Adam and Eve were most likely very similar to us in appearance and physiology. But there have been changes that have taken place. This should be obvious to anyone that has ever met or seen ANYONE of another race.

 

[Heidi]

Oh, and before you try to attack what I have offered, let me add this:

Man HAS evolved. Out physical bodies have been altered by time and environment. NO, man did NOT come from ape. MAN IS MAN and APE IS APE. But we have certainly been on the planet long enough for us to evolve into different creatures than those FIRST created. Adam and Eve were most likely very similar to us in appearance and physiology. But there have been changes that have taken place. This should be obvious to anyone that has ever met or seen ANYONE of another race.

How has man has evolved?? :o We're closer to annihilating ourselves than ever before, there are more, std's crime, greed, pride, gluttony, than ever before in history. The majority of our technology is due to the thinkers in previous generations.

And how have our physical characteristics become superior since the beginning of recorded history? :o Just a guess? We have no pictures of humans at the beginning of recorded history or before. And who judges what is superior?

Evolution comes from the sin of pride, period. It comes from the arrogance of man thinking he is superior to people in the previous generations and superior to God himslef by knowing better than God how man was created. There can hardly be anything more arrogant.

Well I got news for you, Jesus said :"He who exalts himself will be humbled and he who humbles himself will be exalted." People who boast about their superiority will be just as defeated as an arrogant general who goes into battle underestimating his enemy. And when your opponent is God, the consequences with be that much more severe!

So I don't believe people who boast because that's the easiest thing in the world for people to do. People who boast cannot see themselves or their theories objectively, so they always have something to hide. But humble people on the other hand, have nothing to hide which always makes them honest and believable. So since the theory of evolution wreaks with arrogance, that is the first sign that it is a lie...that is overlooking the obvious fallacy that animals don't breed humans which all but the blind can see. 8-)

 

[SyntaxVorlon]

So if evolution is a fact, what has evolved? :o How are humans any superior today when we are closer to annihilating ourselves than ever before, there are more STD's, crime, greed, gluttony, polution, and most importantly, people think we come from apes, than they were thousands of years ago? :o Even the technology we have today is because of the generations of thinkers that preceded us! So how are we born superior? :o Why are there still defective babies in the offspring of all living things?

Someone has a rose tinted history book. I'm sure you would prefer yearly bouts of plague to strike fear of god back into people. :roll:

Since you don't know thing one about genetics then I don't know where to begin correcting you here. But it wouldn't matter because you don't actually read what I write anyway.

 

[Guest]

MAN IS MAN and APE IS APE.

I guess that may depend on your point of view. If you accept cladistics man could be considered an ape because man descendeded from an ancient ape. The same applies to birds. Since birds descended from dinosaurs they are dinosaurs.

Edited for grammar

 

[Guest]

How has man has evolved?? :o We're closer to annihilating ourselves than ever before, there are more, std's crime, greed, pride, gluttony, than ever before in history. The majority of our technology is due to the thinkers in previous generations.

Most of the things you talk about have to do with sociology.

What evidence do you have that there is more crime and greed than ever before?

Gluttony in the U.S. maybe, but I don't know how gluttonous Rome and other civilizations were compared to the U.S.

Almost none of what you mentioned above has anything to do with evolution.

The only thing that may is an std since HIV from what I understand helps support evolution because it is a retrovirus. Others might be able to speak to this better than I can.

And how have our physical characteristics become superior since the beginning of recorded history? :o Just a guess? We have no pictures of humans at the beginning of recorded history or before. And who judges what is superior?

Recorded history does not equal all history. Again Evolution is not instantaneous. In evolution the organisms that are "superior" are the ones that don't become extinct.

Evolution comes from the sin of pride, period. It comes from the arrogance of man thinking he is superior to people in the previous generations and superior to God himslef by knowing better than God how man was created. There can hardly be anything more arrogant.

Evolution is morally neutral. It says nothing against or for God.

Some might say it is arrogant for people to imply or say that their literal interpretation of a religious book is the only interpretation.

So since the theory of evolution wreaks with arrogance, that is the first sign that it is a lie

Isn't it arrogant for people to talk against something they don't understand?

 

[reznwerks]

The trouble is, that most people can't think for themselves. They automatically look to people who have done what their teachers wanted and completed coursework to receive letters after their names. Then once a person receives his diploma he is considered an instant expert in the field in which he majored, even if the teachers gave him false information. Then people say; "yeah, yeah, this guy knows what his talking about", instead of seeing that the person has only taken the first stept toward getting a decent-paying job!
You have assumed a lot and misunderstand as much.In order to get to that diploma it demands that a person think for themself. Of course teachers demand their student acquire and commit to memory certain disiplines. This is normal for any endeavor. You have assumed false information is common and that is not the case. Again your last statement is incorrect as well. When someone comes out of college no who is hiring this person is doing so under the premise that "he knows what he is talking about." Anyone getting hired out of college or university has only shown that he is trainable in the work that he will be doing.

So people who don't believe in God are up the creek without a paddle because they don't know who to believe; today's sciencists or tomorrow's sciencists who correct today's sciencists. And since scientists all disagree with each other even in the same generation, then people are really in the dark!
People who believe in God are not up a creek but they can't bring something into the classroom and spout it as fact if no evidence is present and it can't be tested to or attested too. Scientists don't all disagree with other as you have mistakenly assumed or been told. Yes their may be some disagreements on things not known but that which is fact is just that , fact. So the only ones in the dark are those not willing to look at the evidence which in this case appears to be you.

But concerning evolution, all it takes is basic logic and observation of reality to see what apes and humans breed. And that's why Jesus said to come to him as little children who instincitively understand the reality around them. They do not analyze, twist and distort reality. They simply observe it.
You still fail to understand or accept the concept of evolution and that man is not decended from apes and man is a species unto himself. Jesus (if he lived) wanted people to come like children because they are gullible. You are correct in that Christianity frowns on thinking for yourself as you so correctly quoted the aims above. You also contradict yourself when you plead to look at the evidence. The evidence says evolution . BEFORE evolutionary thought Christianity had a captive audience in what it believed and taught. IT WAS THE EVIDENCE that changed this.