Instructions from Jesus about the End of Days

[whirlwind]

The disciples asked Him...."Tell us, when shall these things be and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?" [Matthew 24:3] The following are a few of the instructions He gives us about that time....the end of the world...the end of this world age:

• Matthew 24:17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
  
  [list:ugb60r5i]Matthew 10:35-38 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. He that loveth father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after Me, is not worthy of Me.

[/list:u:ugb60r5i]

The one on the "housetop" is there as a watchman. He will see what is unfolding in the world. Verse (18) deals with "clothes" so what else would be in his house? His family. The elect may be required to leave them....consider too that the house of the elect means brothers and sisters in Christ and some may not be ready to go to battle. They, just as family members may not fully understand what is required for He has blinded the eyes of some. Place both family members as well as Christian family members in the context of the above Scriptures.....

• Matthew 24:18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

The field is the world [Matthew 13:38] so His elect in the world should be prepared...be dressed and ready for battle NOW and not be caught in nakedness....

• Revelation 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of Me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

What is the "gold" we are to buy? Other souls that we, as the elect, should teach so they too find salvation. In doing that we are rich and will be clothed in white linen, the "righteousness of the saints." [Rev.19:8] The "eyesalve" is His Holy Word...that we may see.

• Matthew 24:19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

Those that are "with child" are those that have fallen into idolatry...adultery with the false christ. They are pregnant with his lies and deception. Those that "give suck" are those that work for him by promoting his false doctrine...his lies. In those days....which could be NOW as well as in the end of days!

• Matthew 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

Pray that your flight in the time of the end be "not in winter." Why? Because it is nearing the time for the harvest and you don't harvest firstfruits in the winter...it is out of season for God's children. To be taken early would be to fall for the deception of Satan who comes before our Savior...wait for the true Christ.

What is meant by praying that your flight not be on the sabbath day? On the surface, this refers to the Levitical law that one could only travel so far on the sabbath...any farther would be to break the sabbath laws. The deeper meaning is the "sabbath" is the millennium. The firstfruits of God's elect have no need to travel on the sabbath for they are of the first resurrection and, "on such the second death hath no power," [Rev.20:6] but all others must enter the sabbath day, the millennium, knowing that they still must overcome.....they are still liable to die a spiritual death, that of their souls.

 

[Ret]

The disciples asked Him...."Tell us, when shall these things be and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?" [Matthew 24:3]

• Matthew 24:19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

Those that are "with child" are those that have fallen into idolatry...adultery with the false christ. They are pregnant with his lies and deception. Those that "give suck" are those that work for him by promoting his false doctrine...his lies. In those days....which could be NOW as well as in the end of days!

Spiritually speaking, at the end of the world, the "WOE" is on the flesh of the righteous, while the spirit is morning - weeping!

• Isaiah 40:10 Behold, the Lord GOD will come with strong hand, and his arm shall rule for him: behold, his reward is with him, and his work before him.
  11 He shall feed his flock like a shepherd: he shall gather the lambs with his arm, and carry them in his bosom, and shall gently lead those that are with young. KJV
  
  Jeremiah 31:8 Behold, I will bring them from the north country, and gather them from the coasts of the earth, and with them the blind and the lame, the woman with child and her that travaileth with child together: a great company shall return thither.
  9 They shall come with weeping, and with supplications will I lead them: I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters in a straight way, wherein they shall not stumble: for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn. KJV

 

[Drew]

The disciples asked Him...."Tell us, when shall these things be and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world"

The translation “end of the world†in Matthew 24:3 is highly debatable. Some translations (such as the NASB and the NET translations) render this as “end of the ageâ€Â.

I suggest that Matthew 24 does not deal with the second coming but rather with the events of 70 AD – the fall of Jerusalem. There is a long tradition of Matthew 24 (and its parallels) being read as prophecies about the second coming. However, there is every reason to challenge such an assertion. Consider the opening text of Matthew 24:

Jesus came out from the temple and was going away when His disciples came up to point out the temple buildings to Him. 2And He said to them, "Do you not see all these things? Truly I say to you, not one stone here will be left upon another, which will not be torn down." As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?"

In verse 2, Jesus makes a clear allusion to the coming destruction of the temple. The disciples then ask about the timing of this. Note the geographical setting – Jesus is sitting on the Mount of Olives looking across to the Temple mount. Given this location, and the clear reference to the destruction of the temple, it hardly makes sense that Jesus followers would ask him about his second coming. They are instead asking him about when the temple will be destroyed. That is why I suggest that the translation “end of the age†is more appropriate.

One needs to remember the context. Jesus has come to Jerusalem with His followers. What are the followers thinking? They are thinking that Jesus will be installed as King. Despite repeated attempts on the part of Jesus to indicate that He is going there to die, the disciples simply do not seem able to take that on board. Given the inability of the disciples to understand that Jesus has to die, it is hardly likely that they can even get their minds around the matter of a 2nd coming – they have not come to terms with the need for Jesus to die and leave them in the first place. Perhaps some will dispute my claim that the disciples did not understand that Jesus needs to die. Fair enough, but my argument does not depend on this point in order to succeed.

There is still the matter of the “parousia†– the coming of Jesus. An objector to my assertion will n doubt argue that the Matthew 24 material cannot be about the events of 70 AD since we all know that Jesus did not “come to us†in 70 AD. Well, one needs to understand that “parousia†means “presence†– the word in and of itself does not necessitate a reading where Jesus descends to us from the heavens. And the word is often used in relation to the visit of a royal person.

Remember now what the disciples are waiting for. It is that Jesus be enthroned at King. Remember also what has recently happened in the Temple. Jesus has gone in and upset the tables of the vendors. Most people see this as a protest against “commercialization†of the holy temple. Although I will not argue the point here, I believe that Jesus is pronouncing symbolic judgement on the temple, enacting its imminent destruction through the agency of Rome.

Either way, Jesus’ action in the temple would have clear Messianic interpretations for any Jew familiar with the Old Testament and with recent Jewish history. It is specifically the King who is the one who has authority over the temple (think of David ordering the building of the temple and Solomon completing, not to mention other similar figures in the Jewish tradition, such as Simon Ben Kosibar). So when Jesus does His thing in the temple, his disciples will see this as a claim of kingship.

All this works together to help us see that when they ask Jesus about his “coming†(parousia), they are really asking about the time when He will be installed as King – they are not asking Him when He will return to earth in a 2nd coming (they have no concept of a second coming to begin with) And lest there be any misunderstanding, it is clear from the New Testament that Jesus is not waiting to be enthroned at a second coming – He has already been installed 2000 years ago as a sitting King. So my hypothesis about the meaning of the material in Matthew 24 is entirely consistent with the disciples’ question about the parousia – Jesus comes into His Kingship as the old age of the temple passes away.

Much more should be said. Another key argument in support of my hypothesis is the reference to the “son of man coming on the cloud†reference later in the chapter. As you have already acknowledged, this is an image drawn from Daniel 7 which does not refer to a downward descent from heaven to earth (as the 2nd coming hypothesis would require). It is instead an upward movement from earth to heaven followed by enthronement. As should be clear, this is entirely what my hypothesis demands – the son of man coming on the clouds is a reference to enthronement, not a 2nd coming.

And, of course, those who think that Matthew 24 deals with the 2nd coming have to invent fanciful theories to get around the rather obvious implication of this statement by Jesus:

Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.

It should be obvious that the reading that I am advancing allows us to take Jesus at his word – 70 AD is one generation away. The 2nd coming hypothesis is forced to awkwardly rework the meaning of this statement.

 

[Vic C.]

Hi Drew,

You realize, you do have a tough audience here. ;)

So that they may understand your position a bit better, do you see a physical parousia of Messiah in our future?

 

[Drew]

Hi Drew,

You realize, you do have a tough audience here. ;)

No doubt - I am well aware how deeply entrenched is the idea that Matthew 24 and its parallels are about the end times.

So that they may understand your position a bit better, do you see a physical parousia of Messiah in our future?

Indeed I do. I believe that our Lord will indeed come a 2nd time in the future.

 

[whirlwind]

The disciples asked Him...."Tell us, when shall these things be and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?" [Matthew 24:3]

• Matthew 24:19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

Those that are "with child" are those that have fallen into idolatry...adultery with the false christ. They are pregnant with his lies and deception. Those that "give suck" are those that work for him by promoting his false doctrine...his lies. In those days....which could be NOW as well as in the end of days!

Spiritually speaking, at the end of the world, the "WOE" is on the flesh of the righteous, while the spirit is morning - weeping!

• Isaiah 40:10 Behold, the Lord GOD will come with strong hand, and his arm shall rule for him: behold, his reward is with him, and his work before him.
  11 He shall feed his flock like a shepherd: he shall gather the lambs with his arm, and carry them in his bosom, and shall gently lead those that are with young. KJV
  
  Jeremiah 31:8 Behold, I will bring them from the north country, and gather them from the coasts of the earth, and with them the blind and the lame, the woman with child and her that travaileth with child together: a great company shall return thither.
  9 They shall come with weeping, and with supplications will I lead them: I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters in a straight way, wherein they shall not stumble: for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn. KJV

Thank you so much for adding those wonderful Scriptures Ret. I've always believed from other passages that will happen, (we discussed them in another thread recently), but those truly are the icing on the cake.

They are the righteous that have been misled. They will be gathered "the woman with her child," after the wrath but nevertheless...gently gathered and carried. :amen

 

[NIGHTMARE]

The disciples asked Him...."Tell us, when shall these things be and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world"

The translation “end of the world†in Matthew 24:3 is highly debatable. Some translations (such as the NASB and the NET translations) render this as “end of the ageâ€Â.

I suggest that Matthew 24 does not deal with the second coming but rather with the events of 70 AD – the fall of Jerusalem. There is a long tradition of Matthew 24 (and its parallels) being read as prophecies about the second coming. However, there is every reason to challenge such an assertion. Consider the opening text of Matthew 24:

Jesus came out from the temple and was going away when His disciples came up to point out the temple buildings to Him. 2And He said to them, "Do you not see all these things? Truly I say to you, not one stone here will be left upon another, which will not be torn down." As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?"

In verse 2, Jesus makes a clear allusion to the coming destruction of the temple. The disciples then ask about the timing of this. Note the geographical setting – Jesus is sitting on the Mount of Olives looking across to the Temple mount. Given this location, and the clear reference to the destruction of the temple, it hardly makes sense that Jesus followers would ask him about his second coming. They are instead asking him about when the temple will be destroyed. That is why I suggest that the translation “end of the age†is more appropriate.

One needs to remember the context. Jesus has come to Jerusalem with His followers. What are the followers thinking? They are thinking that Jesus will be installed as King. Despite repeated attempts on the part of Jesus to indicate that He is going there to die, the disciples simply do not seem able to take that on board. Given the inability of the disciples to understand that Jesus has to die, it is hardly likely that they can even get their minds around the matter of a 2nd coming – they have not come to terms with the need for Jesus to die and leave them in the first place. Perhaps some will dispute my claim that the disciples did not understand that Jesus needs to die. Fair enough, but my argument does not depend on this point in order to succeed.

There is still the matter of the “parousia†– the coming of Jesus. An objector to my assertion will n doubt argue that the Matthew 24 material cannot be about the events of 70 AD since we all know that Jesus did not “come to us†in 70 AD. Well, one needs to understand that “parousia†means “presence†– the word in and of itself does not necessitate a reading where Jesus descends to us from the heavens. And the word is often used in relation to the visit of a royal person.

Remember now what the disciples are waiting for. It is that Jesus be enthroned at King. Remember also what has recently happened in the Temple. Jesus has gone in and upset the tables of the vendors. Most people see this as a protest against “commercialization†of the holy temple. Although I will not argue the point here, I believe that Jesus is pronouncing symbolic judgement on the temple, enacting its imminent destruction through the agency of Rome.

Either way, Jesus’ action in the temple would have clear Messianic interpretations for any Jew familiar with the Old Testament and with recent Jewish history. It is specifically the King who is the one who has authority over the temple (think of David ordering the building of the temple and Solomon completing, not to mention other similar figures in the Jewish tradition, such as Simon Ben Kosibar). So when Jesus does His thing in the temple, his disciples will see this as a claim of kingship.

All this works together to help us see that when they ask Jesus about his “coming†(parousia), they are really asking about the time when He will be installed as King – they are not asking Him when He will return to earth in a 2nd coming (they have no concept of a second coming to begin with) And lest there be any misunderstanding, it is clear from the New Testament that Jesus is not waiting to be enthroned at a second coming – He has already been installed 2000 years ago as a sitting King. So my hypothesis about the meaning of the material in Matthew 24 is entirely consistent with the disciples’ question about the parousia – Jesus comes into His Kingship as the old age of the temple passes away.

Much more should be said. Another key argument in support of my hypothesis is the reference to the “son of man coming on the cloud†reference later in the chapter. As you have already acknowledged, this is an image drawn from Daniel 7 which does not refer to a downward descent from heaven to earth (as the 2nd coming hypothesis would require). It is instead an upward movement from earth to heaven followed by enthronement. As should be clear, this is entirely what my hypothesis demands – the son of man coming on the clouds is a reference to enthronement, not a 2nd coming.

And, of course, those who think that Matthew 24 deals with the 2nd coming have to invent fanciful theories to get around the rather obvious implication of this statement by Jesus:

Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.

It should be obvious that the reading that I am advancing allows us to take Jesus at his word – 70 AD is one generation away. The 2nd coming hypothesis is forced to awkwardly rework the meaning of this statement.

I believe that Matthew 24 is talking about the return of Christ,,,and the end of the age......I do prefer "End of the age" rather then "end of the world" but whatever.....

The invasion by Titus in 70ad was not what Christ was talking about ,,,no way no how....When we compare the distruction of what is told in Zechariah 14 to the invasion of TItus they dont match up........

Take this verse

Matthew 24:2 "And Jesus said unto them, "See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down."

Mark 13:2 "And Jesus answering said unto him, "Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down."

Titus did not accomplish this,,,,the wall still stands and is actually a tourist site......

When Christ comes it will be like nothing ever seen,, the destruction will be uncomparible......

 

[Ret]

Thank you so much for adding those wonderful Scriptures Ret. I've always believed from other passages that will happen, (we discussed them in another thread recently), but those truly are the icing on the cake.

They are the righteous that have been misled. They will be gathered "the woman with her child," after the wrath but nevertheless...gently gathered and carried. :amen

Thanks WW...these verses (Isa 40:10-11 & Jer 31:18-19) are wonderful! :yes

 

[Drew]

Take this verse

Matthew 24:2 "And Jesus said unto them, "See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down."

Mark 13:2 "And Jesus answering said unto him, "Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down."

Titus did not accomplish this,,,,the wall still stands and is actually a tourist site......

When Christ comes it will be like nothing ever seen,, the destruction will be uncomparible......

I believe that there is some doubt about what you are asserting. Note this from wikipedia:

"Early Jewish texts referred to a “western wall of the Templeâ€Â,[3] but there is doubt whether the texts were referring to today’s Western Wall or to another wall which stood within the Temple complex. "

So I do not think you can simply assume that what stands today falls under the implications of Jesus' statement.

You have engaged none of my actual argument, aside from your remark about the wall. To make your case, you need to engage the details. For example, how you make sense of the statement that all this will be accomplished during "this generation"?

 

[Vic C.]

Titus did not accomplish this,,,,the wall still stands and is actually a tourist site......

I addressed this in another post. Are you and WW trading notes? The wall isn't part of the actual Temple. Get out your trusty concordance and look up Buildings.

 

[NIGHTMARE]

Titus did not accomplish this,,,,the wall still stands and is actually a tourist site......

I addressed this in another post. Are you and WW trading notes? The wall isn't part of the actual Temple. Get out your trusty concordance and look up Buildings.

No we are not,,,, and ,,,,thats not the point that closes the case,,,,, the description of the Titus invasion does not match up with Zechariah 14,,,,,so get out your old history books and compare.....

 

[Drew]

There is another problem associated with seeing Matthew 24 as a description of the second coming. In verse 30, Jesus says this:

They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory.

The image of "coming on the clouds" has, I suggest, been simply assumed to refer to a descent from heaven to earth. Instead, this image is drawn from Daniel 7 where it denotes an ascent from earth to heaven:

I kept looking in the night visions,
And behold, with the clouds of heaven
One like a Son of Man was coming,And He came up to the Ancient of Days
And was presented before Him.

We need to understand the "son of man coming on the clouds" imagery in its Biblical context. And in Daniel 7, the metaphor is used to describe vindication after suffering, an upward movement of exultation.

Jesus - who no doubt knew the book of Daniel - would certainly have used the image appropriately. Readers need to understand the meaning of the "coming on the clouds" metaphor - its use is entirely inconsistent with a 2nd coming interpretation of Matthew 24.

 

[Drew]

No we are not,,,, and ,,,,thats not the point that closes the case,,,,, the description of the Titus invasion does not match up with Zechariah 14,,,,,so get out your old history books and compare.....

Note this from Zechariah 14:9

The LORD will be king over the whole earth. On that day there will be one LORD, and his name the only name.

This is entirely consistent with the "70 AD" interpretation. I have to look at other material in Zechariah 14, but if your argument is that "what is described in Zech 14 lies in the future and", then you have a big problem. There is, I suggest, an overwhelming Biblical case that Jesus has already been enthroned as king over the earth. I am prepared to argue this in annoying detail.

 

[NIGHTMARE]

Take this verse

Matthew 24:2 "And Jesus said unto them, "See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down."

Mark 13:2 "And Jesus answering said unto him, "Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down."

Titus did not accomplish this,,,,the wall still stands and is actually a tourist site......

When Christ comes it will be like nothing ever seen,, the destruction will be uncomparible......

I believe that there is some doubt about what you are asserting. Note this from wikipedia:

"Early Jewish texts referred to a “western wall of the Templeâ€Â,[3] but there is doubt whether the texts were referring to today’s Western Wall or to another wall which stood within the Temple complex. "

So I do not think you can simply assume that what stands today falls under the implications of Jesus' statement.

You have engaged none of my actual argument, aside from your remark about the wall. To make your case, you need to engage the details. For example, how you make sense of the statement that all this will be accomplished during "this generation"?

Matthew 24:34
Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

Mark 13:30
Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.

What is the subject here?????answer::::the sign of the coming of Christ and the end of the age/world......These things are written to the generation of the fig tree,,,,Christ is simplying saying that the generation of the fig tree will not pass until these things take place......

see this is one of the biggest problem with bible readers,,,,,,knowing who is being spoken to.....Christ is not talking about Titus in 70ad or Christ would have returned a long time ago.......This speaks of a future time even to us,,,,a time whjen every stone will be crushed,,,commen sense please,,,you really think Titus accomplished Zechriah 14???????? Well your going to be in for some shock when Christ really destroys Jerusalem....One might take that the reason you believe what you do,,,is you have not fully learned the parable of the fig tree as Christ told you to......This is written to the generation of the fig tree.......

 

[whirlwind]

The disciples asked Him...."Tell us, when shall these things be and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world"

The translation “end of the world†in Matthew 24:3 is highly debatable. Some translations (such as the NASB and the NET translations) render this as “end of the ageâ€Â.

Hi Drew,

I agree...it is the "end of the age" that is being taught. The world doesn't end. :yes

I suggest that Matthew 24 does not deal with the second coming but rather with the events of 70 AD – the fall of Jerusalem. There is a long tradition of Matthew 24 (and its parallels) being read as prophecies about the second coming. However, there is every reason to challenge such an assertion. Consider the opening text of Matthew 24:

Jesus came out from the temple and was going away when His disciples came up to point out the temple buildings to Him. 2And He said to them, "Do you not see all these things? Truly I say to you, not one stone here will be left upon another, which will not be torn down." As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?"[/color]

In verse 2, Jesus makes a clear allusion to the coming destruction of the temple. The disciples then ask about the timing of this. Note the geographical setting – Jesus is sitting on the Mount of Olives looking across to the Temple mount. Given this location, and the clear reference to the destruction of the temple, it hardly makes sense that Jesus followers would ask him about his second coming. They are instead asking him about when the temple will be destroyed. That is why I suggest that the translation “end of the age†is more appropriate.

I appreciate why you have the understanding you do but what I see from the above verses are....it was the temple buildings (not temple alone), with the additional phrase of, "all these things," being said which validate that it was not just the temple being spoken of. As there is that second witness it is important to note and needs to be taken into consideration.

The "buildings of the temple" include all the temple grounds, the courts, halls, colonnades, towers, wings and....their supporting structure! As you stated, from where Jesus was sitting, on the mount of Olives, He would be looking directly at what is now termed....the wailing wall. He then specifically said, "there shall not be left here one stone upon another that shall not be thrown down." When I think of Jerusalem and the Jewish people what do I picture? The wailing wall where one huge stone still stands upon another. :yes Jesus didn't choose those words by accident.

It is after Jesus made that prophecy that He was asked...."Tell us, when shall these things be AND what shall be the sign of Thy coming, AND of the end of the world (age)?" The stones will not longer stand one upon another when we see the sign of Jesus coming and of the end of this world age.

One needs to remember the context. Jesus has come to Jerusalem with His followers. What are the followers thinking? They are thinking that Jesus will be installed as King. Despite repeated attempts on the part of Jesus to indicate that He is going there to die, the disciples simply do not seem able to take that on board. Given the inability of the disciples to understand that Jesus has to die, it is hardly likely that they can even get their minds around the matter of a 2nd coming – they have not come to terms with the need for Jesus to die and leave them in the first place. Perhaps some will dispute my claim that the disciples did not understand that Jesus needs to die. Fair enough, but my argument does not depend on this point in order to succeed.

Actually....I agree with that. I don't think they understood exactly what was going to happen. I would add though that the words were spoken to them verbally but they were said to us.

There is still the matter of the “parousia†– the coming of Jesus. An objector to my assertion will n doubt argue that the Matthew 24 material cannot be about the events of 70 AD since we all know that Jesus did not “come to us†in 70 AD. Well, one needs to understand that “parousia†means “presence†– the word in and of itself does not necessitate a reading where Jesus descends to us from the heavens. And the word is often used in relation to the visit of a royal person.

Remember now what the disciples are waiting for. It is that Jesus be enthroned at King. Remember also what has recently happened in the Temple. Jesus has gone in and upset the tables of the vendors. Most people see this as a protest against “commercialization†of the holy temple. Although I will not argue the point here, I believe that Jesus is pronouncing symbolic judgement on the temple, enacting its imminent destruction through the agency of Rome.

That is interesting Drew and I very much agree. When He was crucified...."behold, the veil of the Temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom." [Matthew 27:51] And, Jesus left the building! Then, He became the Temple and we, as believers are part of the temple...."Know ye not that ye are the Temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?" [1 Corinthians 3:16]

Either way, Jesus’ action in the temple would have clear Messianic interpretations for any Jew familiar with the Old Testament and with recent Jewish history. It is specifically the King who is the one who has authority over the temple (think of David ordering the building of the temple and Solomon completing, not to mention other similar figures in the Jewish tradition, such as Simon Ben Kosibar). So when Jesus does His thing in the temple, his disciples will see this as a claim of kingship.

All this works together to help us see that when they ask Jesus about his “coming†(parousia), they are really asking about the time when He will be installed as King – they are not asking Him when He will return to earth in a 2nd coming (they have no concept of a second coming to begin with) And lest there be any misunderstanding, it is clear from the New Testament that Jesus is not waiting to be enthroned at a second coming – He has already been installed 2000 years ago as a sitting King. So my hypothesis about the meaning of the material in Matthew 24 is entirely consistent with the disciples’ question about the parousia – Jesus comes into His Kingship as the old age of the temple passes away.

Much more should be said. Another key argument in support of my hypothesis is the reference to the “son of man coming on the cloud†reference later in the chapter. As you have already acknowledged, this is an image drawn from Daniel 7 which does not refer to a downward descent from heaven to earth (as the 2nd coming hypothesis would require). It is instead an upward movement from earth to heaven followed by enthronement. As should be clear, this is entirely what my hypothesis demands – the son of man coming on the clouds is a reference to enthronement, not a 2nd coming.

But Drew....I agreed the Daniel verses are about ascending however I DID NOT agree that they were relevant to His coming. They are different timeframes, different events.

And, of course, those who think that Matthew 24 deals with the 2nd coming have to invent fanciful theories to get around the rather obvious implication of this statement by Jesus:



Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.

It should be obvious that the reading that I am advancing allows us to take Jesus at his word – 70 AD is one generation away. The 2nd coming hypothesis is forced to awkwardly rework the meaning of this statement.

I know you see that as the generation of the disciples standing in front of Him. I see the "this generation" as the generation in which all the things He taught of, about the end of the age, would happen. The last generation, the generation of the fig tree...which began in 1947.

 

[researcher]

The disciples asked Him...."Tell us, when shall these things be and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world"

The translation “end of the world†in Matthew 24:3 is highly debatable. Some translations (such as the NASB and the NET translations) render this as “end of the ageâ€Â.

Age is correct!

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aiÃ…Ân
ahee-ohn'
From the same as G104; properly an age; by extension perpetuity (also past); by implication the world; specifically (Jewish) a Messianic period (present or future): - age, course, eternal, (for) ever (-more), [n-]ever, (beginning of the, while the) world (began, without end). Compare G5550.

The word aion, from where we get aeon or "eon" meaning an age.

Webster's
Main Entry: ae·on
Variant(s): or eon \ˈē-ən, ˈē-ˌän\
Function: noun
Etymology: Latin, from Greek aiÃ…Ân  more at aye
Date: 1647
1 : an immeasurably or indefinitely long period of time : age

Aion should not be confused with the word used for "world" which is "Kosmos." ;) :D

Matthew used the word aion in that verse, not Kosmos. "And of the end of the age." ;) :D

 

[whirlwind]

Titus did not accomplish this,,,,the wall still stands and is actually a tourist site......

I addressed this in another post. Are you and WW trading notes? The wall isn't part of the actual Temple. Get out your trusty concordance and look up Buildings.

Without a foundation there would be no buildings.

 

[NIGHTMARE]

Personally I dont see how anyone can think Matthew 24 is talking about 70ad,,,I mean you cant be serious I can point out flaw after flaw with that idea......What did Christ say????????

as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

38For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

39And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Now can anyone show how the days of Noah were like 70 ad????????? of course not.....why

Because in the days on Noah you had fallen angels on the earth creating Giants.....

1And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,

2That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

3And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

4There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

Where there fallen angels on earth in 70ad????????of course not.......

What did God do in the days of Noah??????????? answer: Cause a flood.....

17And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.

Was there some type of flood in 70ad????????of course not......

But here is another flood that will happen in the future when satan/antichrist arrives

Revelation 12:15
And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.

Ok,,,,,how long does satan/fallen angels have control of the flood?????????answer 5 months....

5And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.

and one more time 5 verses later

10And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months.
s
5 months,,,funny ,,,,does anyone remember how long Noahs flood was on the earth ???????

24And the waters prevailed upon the earth an hundred and fifty days.=5 months

The days of Noah ar not like 70ad,,,,,, but,,,,,,,there is a time coming close.......

 

[Drew]

Matthew 24:34
Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

Mark 13:30
Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.

What is the subject here?????answer::::the sign of the coming of Christ and the end of the age/world......These things are written to the generation of the fig tree,,,,Christ is simplying saying that the generation of the fig tree will not pass until these things take place......

Your argument is based on an exceedingly shaky premise - that Matthew 24 deals with a physical return of Jesus. If that premise were true, you would almost certainly have a point. But we have every reason to doubt that premise. As I have already argued in a recent post, when Jesus says this:

At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory.

....he is quoting Daniel 7 where the "coming" is not a downward trip from heaven to earth, as in a second coming, it is an upward movement from earth to heaven - an exultation of vindication after suffering. Jesus knows His Old Testament - He would use the metaphor appropriately. So Jesus is not talking about his 2nd coming, He is talking about his vindication, resurrection, and installation as king. And that is happening very soon indeed, not 2000 plus years in the future.

This is written to the generation of the fig tree.......

You are correct – He is speaking to the generation of the fig tree. But the generation of the fig tree is the generation of Jesus’ own day. One of the central themes of Jesus’ ministry is his announcement of judgement against the Israel of His time. Jesus symbolically enacts the coming destruction of the temple by entering it and flipping over the tables. And then we get the fig tree:

18Early in the morning, as he was on his way back to the city, he was hungry. 19Seeing a fig tree by the road, he went up to it but found nothing on it except leaves. Then he said to it, "May you never bear fruit again!" Immediately the tree withered.
20When the disciples saw this, they were amazed. "How did the fig tree wither so quickly?" they asked. 21Jesus replied, "I tell you the truth, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and it will be done. 22If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer."

I am almost certain you will challenge me on this, but I believe that the reference to the mountain being thrown into the sea has a cryptic second meaning – Jesus is referring specifically to Mount Zion and specifically the temple whose judgment He has just enacted. Note that the Jewish scriptures apply the term "Mount Zion" to the Temple Mount and the City of David. Jesus is saying that that the temple and all that it stands for – Jewish compromise with idolatry are about to be destroyed in judgement through the agency of Rome.

So it all fits together – the enacted judgement of the temple followed by the coded reference to the temple being cast into the sea. In such a context, it is clear that the fig tree generation is indeed the present generation. Jesus is talking about imminent judgement in Matthew 24, and making proper use of the “son of man coming on the clouds metaphor. He is not talking about a 2nd coming.

 

[Drew]

Personally I dont see how anyone can think Matthew 24 is talking about 70ad,,,I mean you cant be serious I can point out flaw after flaw with that idea......What did Christ say????????

as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

I thinking you are reading too much into the comparison that Jesus makes with the times of Noah. Here is the relevant text:

As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.

Jesus is not intending to establish a parallel at every possible point between the time of Noah and the "coming" of the Son of Man - He is clearly focussing in on the matter of suddenness. And that is entirely consistent with seeing Matthew 24 as being a treatment of the coming sack of Jerusalem by the Romans.