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--Interesting Material--

  • Thread starter John the Baptist
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John the Baptist

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Interesting Material that another has done, I am off to Worship & will check it out later? ---John

AN'TI, n. [Gr. See Ante.]

...in place of.
Webster's 1828 Dictionary

Antichrist.

In place of Christ...

"[W]e hold upon this earth the place of God Almighty."

--POPE LEO XIII

Cited in Double Cross by Chick Publications, p. 27
quoting THE GREAT ENCYCLICAL LETTERS OF POPE LEO XIII
p. 304, Benziger Brothers (1903)


VIC'AR, n. [L. vicarius, from vicis]
...a substitute in office.
Webster's 1828 Dictionary

Vicar of Christ.

A substitute Christ...

"For the Roman pontiff (pope), by reason of his office as VICAR OF CHRIST, and as pastor of the entire Church has full, supreme, and universal POWER over the whole Church, a power which he can always exercise UNHINDERED."

--CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH, 1994, P. 254 #882

"We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely NECESSARY FOR the SALVATION of every human creature to be SUBJECT TO THE ROMAN PONTIFF (POPE)."

--POPE BONIFACE VIII, BULL UNUN SANCTUM, 1302

...the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
2 Thessalonians 2:2-4

...and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

Revelation 17:8

Revelation 13:4-5 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies...

"[W]e hold upon this earth the place of God Almighty."
--POPE LEO XIII
"...I will be like the most High."
LUCIFER, ISAIAH 14:14

"I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another..."
Isaiah 42:8
 
Isn't this exactly what I was talking about? Pope is the Antichrist, just as Peter could have been Antichrist spoken of by Revelation. Organized religion is the whore of Babylon. No one needs organized religion, besides their rulers, who gain profit from it - look at Hinduism, at Buddhism and many more.

If you look at popes and RCC - you will see perfect example of Antichrist and whore of Babylon, all this red, purple, gold, wealth, secrets - that's how you define a sect. A sect is a religious insitution focusing on earthly matters instead of spiritual matters. Isn't it what RCC and Christianity overall do?

They pursuit money, they change biblical teachings to fit their pursuit.
 
John here, did you notice this?

Cited in Double Cross by Chick Publications, p. 27
quoting THE GREAT ENCYCLICAL LETTERS OF POPE LEO XIII
p. 304, Benziger Brothers (1903)

I was on a thread started by catholics here on this site, and it was stated that I got (get, or might get?) my material from Chick something or other??

Anyway, I wonder if this is the same guy? I will go back & look over this that was on another site, & see if I can contact him, to invite him over here on this site?

Perhaps he might have some more pertinent 'present day' material on the gospel of a false 'created' Christ to share with us?

----John
 
Hi again, there is even some stuff on the Jehovah wittness professed stuff!
I didn't see a contact for Jack though?

---John
______________

Chick Publications
P.O. Box 3500
Ontario, Calif.
91761-1019

(909) 987-0771 Ph.
(909) 941-8128 Fax
Search CHICK.COM

Click here for a new search.

Documents 1 to 25 of 25 matching the query "Jehovah's Witnesses".

1. Spanish "The Crisis"
A J.W. learns why his religion is wrong, trusts Christ, and allows a blood transfusion that saves his girl's life.

2. The Crisis
Online tract - A J.W. learns why his religion is wrong, and allows a blood transfusion that saves his girl's life.

3. Read "Answers To My Jehovah's Witness Friends" online
Answers you need to witness effectively to Jehovah's Witnesses.

4. "Answers To My Jehovah's Witness Friends" - Preface
Introduction to the book.

5. "Answers To My Jehovah's Witness Friends" - Chapter 1
Salvation, what is it all about?

6. "Answers To My Jehovah's Witness Friends" - Chapter 2
False prophecy and mistaken interpretations of scripture.

7. "Answers To My Jehovah's Witness Friends" - Chapter 3
The Saved Go To Heaven

8. "Answers To My Jehovah's Witness Friends" - Chapter 4
Eternal Punishment

9. "Answers To My Jehovah's Witness Friends" - Chapter 5
How to Interpret the Bible

10. "Answers To My Jehovah's Witness Friends" - Chapter 6
Jesus Christ

11. "Answers To My Jehovah's Witness Friends" - Chapter 7
The Resurrection of Jesus

12. "Answers To My Jehovah's Witness Friends" - Chapter 8
The Holy Spirit

13. "Answers To My Jehovah's Witness Friends" - Chapter 9
The Trinity

14. "Answers To My Jehovah's Witness Friends" - Chapter 10
The Name "Jehovah"

15. "Answers To My Jehovah's Witness Friends" - Chapter 11
Should We Give Blood?

16. "Answers To My Jehovah's Witness Friends" - Chapter 12
Your Key to the Kingdom

17. "Answers To My Jehovah's Witness Friends" - Chapter 1
Salvation, what is it all about?

18. Answers to My Jehovah's Witness Friends - by Thomas F. Heinze
This book provides answers you need to witness effectively to Jehovah's Witnesses. Written lovingly, a great book to give to Jehovah's Witnesses.

19. Be Prepared - by Thomas F. Heinze
This little booklet gives quick answers, with Scripture references, that meet the challenges of Catholicism, Mormonism, and Jehovah's Witness head on.


20. Ex-JW Sued for Watchtower Quotes
BC Article - There is no doubt that the material is an embarrassment to the Watchtower.

21. Why Jehovah's Witness Prophecy Is Important
BC Article - The Jehovah's Witness movement was built upon prophecy ... FAILED prophecy. That has left many JW members with serious questions.

22. Failed Jehovah's Witness propecies
BC Article - How can you trust the Watchtower Society to teach you the Bible when their prophecies keep failing?

23. Jehovah's Witness: what do they believe?
BC Article - Jehovah's Witnesses: what they believe, and what they do not believe. A short summary.

24. Jehovah's Witnesses: where did they come from?
BC Article - Short history of the Jehovah's Witness movement.

25. Witnessing to Jehovah's Witnesses
BC Article - Paul Blizzard, former JW, gives some pointers to help you witness to Jehovah's Witnesses.

Page 1 of 1

Click here for a new search.
 
Follow God, NOT men and ALL the tradition can be 'laid aside'.
 
Here is more interesting material. The sites location is at the bottom. There is about anything that one is looking for on the site, Doctrin/wise!
My problem with this site is not the Doctrines, but being yoked to a 'fold' that does not do as the fold teaches! Matthew 23:3
******


The Doctrine of the Trinity

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

One of the early controversies in the church was that of the nature of God and the Trinity. In brief, in the 4th century, Arius, an elder in Alexandria began teaching that Jesus Christ was a created being, and that before being created by God the Father, Jesus did not exist. (This belief is now called Arianism). The archdeacon of Alexandria, Athanasius, opposed Arius, and in the synod of 321 Arius was deposed. In 325 Emperor Constantine convened the first ecumenical council at Nicea and the matter was considered. One faction or the other predominated over the following years, and Athanasius himself was banished as many as five times when Arianism prevailed.

Eventually the church formulated and adopted the Athanasian creed, which declared Father, Son and Holy Spirit to be equal and co-eternal, affirming the doctrine of the trinity.

But what does the Bible say of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit?

The Deity of God the Father

John 6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

1 Cor 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Gal 1:1 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;)

Gal 1:3 Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ,

Eph 6:23 Peace be to the brethren, and love with faith, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Phil 2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

1 Th 1:1 Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians which is in God the Father and in the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Tim 1:2 To Timothy, my dearly beloved son: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord.

Titus 1:4 To Titus, mine own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour.

1 Pet 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

2 Pet 1:17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

2 John 1:3 Grace be with you, mercy, and peace, from God the Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love.

Jude 1:1 Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:

Luke 3:21 Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass, that Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened,
Luke 3:22 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.

The Deity of Jesus Christ, the Son of God.
John 10:30 I and my Father are one.
John 10:31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
John 10:32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I showed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
John 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

John 13:13 Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am.

Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Eph 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

Col 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

The Word is identified as God and creator here in John, and the Word was made flesh, God incarnate. In conjunction with Ephesians 3:9 and Colossians 1:12-16, this is clearly speaking of Jesus Christ as God and Creator.
The Deity of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
Acts 5:4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.

Here in verse 3, Peter says Ananias has lied to the Holy Ghost, and in the next verse Peter says Ananias has lied to God. Clearly then according to Peter, the Holy Spirit is indeed deity, a part of the Godhead. This is also apparent from the following verse in the book of Matthew-
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

According to Matthew, baptism is to be in the name of all three persons of the Godhead.
Also, according to Scripture, the Holy Spirit -

Participated in creation - Gen 1:2
Is a Comforter - John 14:26
Is eternal - Heb 9:14
Speaks - 1 Tim 4:1; Rev 14:13
Teaches - John 14:26
Reveals the future - Luke 2:26
Bears Witness - Rom 8:16
Guides to the truth - John 16:13
Gives life (quickens) - Rom 8:11; 1Pet 3:18
Reproves - John 16:8
Makes Intercession - Rom 8:26
Indwells the believer - 1 Cor 6:19
Distributes gifts - 1 Cor 12:11
Seals the believer - Eph 1:13, 4:30
Invites the Sinner - Rev 22:17
Can be Blasphemed - Mat 12:31-32
Conceived Jesus in Mary - Mat 1:20
A Trinity, but only one God

Mal 2:10 Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers?

Mark 12:32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:

Rom 3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.

1 Cor 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

1 Tim 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

One God, Yet Triune
All three entities of the Trinity were present at the baptism of Jesus-

Mat 3:13 Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.
Mat 3:14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
Mat 3:15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.
Mat 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
Mat 3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

So the Bible teaches that the Father, the Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit are all diety, each distinct, yet each part of the Godhead, but there is only one God. While difficult for humanity to comprehend, the Trinity is indeed the truth, not because of the creeds of men, but because it is taught by the Bible.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


biblelight.net
 
+JMJ+


Follow God, NOT men and ALL the tradition can be 'laid aside'.

So then we should lay aside the apostles too? They were just men. St. Paul tells us to 'hold fast to tradition'.

Heck, the Bible is tradition does that have to go next?
 
Fulton Sheen's Warrior said:
+JMJ+


Follow God, NOT men and ALL the tradition can be 'laid aside'.

So then we should lay aside the apostles too? They were just men. St. Paul tells us to 'hold fast to tradition'.

Heck, the Bible is tradition does that have to go next?

*********

John here:
Are you twisting his meaning?? 2 Corinthians 4:2 :sad

He was surely agreeing with at least some of Christ's Words of Mark 7:7 it appears to 'me'!

"Howbeit [in vain] do they worship me, teaching [for doctrine the commandmnents of men]." And you think that Paul was a vain worshiper?
See 1 Corinthians 14:32, & not Romes traditonial 'junkfood' huh, JMJ? (it was you that he is speaking of, right? :wink: )
 
+JMJ+


He was surely agreeing with at least some of Christ's Words of Mark 7:7 it appears to 'me'!

Mark 7:7 does not condemn tradition just bad traditions. What is the pillar and foundation of truth? Where in the Bible does it state that it itself is the sole authority? Why do you believe the Bible at all?

And you think that Paul was a vain worshiper?

Of course not. St. Paul says to hold onto tradition you say not to. The question is do you think Paul was a vain worshiper?

See 1 Corinthians 14:32, & not Romes traditonial 'junkfood' huh, JMJ? (it was you that he is speaking of, right? )

I love the way you Protestants cringe when a Catholic calls the Pope infallibe, yet has no problem exercising infalliblity themselves. I suppose you leave scripture to your own private interpretation.....How nice.

JMJ? Maybe when I die Jesus will be in a good mood and won't send me to Hell for honoring His family. :roll:
 
"Maybe when I die Jesus will be in a good mood and won't send me to Hell for honoring His family." (what an pathetic statement! :sad )

Maybe? you say. And die??? Friend, a 'fold' has got to be alive with its eyes open, before it can die. Revelation 3:9

--John
 
+JMJ+

Surprise, surprise. I thought maybe you would like to have a discussion (I guess I should have known better). I didn't know you were just going to insult the Church without a decent response. Instead, you just go on and on with your bold and red font and taking scripture out of context.
 
Fulton Sheen's Warrior said:
+JMJ+

Surprise, surprise. I thought maybe you would like to have a discussion (I guess I should have known better). I didn't know you were just going to insult the Church without a decent response. Instead, you just go on and on with your bold and red font and taking scripture out of context.

***
John here: There is no discussion needed today. The protestants are all asleep! Matt. 25. So, Christ has told all what he must do in Matthew 10:20-27, and it appears that it is the world News casters that are mostly doing Christ's work, huh? (you know, forum,) 'THE ROCKS WILL CRY OUT' Anyone can [openly] read the daily news and see what Rome has become. :sad But Christ has just uncovered her 'spiritual' bed of whore/doms as He stated in the Matthew 10:27-28!

But, the real story was that Rome had never been other than what they are in the first place. Take care!
 
Tradition:

1 Cor. 11:2- hold fast to the traditions he handed on to them
2 Thess. 2:15-hold fast to traditions, whether oral or written
2 Thess. 3:6 shun those actging not according to tradition
Jn 21:25-not everything Jesus said was written
Acts 20:35-paul records a saying of Jesus not found in gospels
2 Tim 2:2 what he heard he is to entrust to faithful men
1 Cor. 15:1-2- being saved by holding fast to the word that is preached

Human tradition condemned
Mt 15:3-they break commandment of God for tradition
Mk 7:9-set aside God's word to uphold tradition
Col 2:8- seductive philosophy according to human tradition (specifically gnosticism)
HOWEVER
1 Cor 11:2 commends them for following the Apostolic tradition, 2 Thess 2:15 commands them to keep the traditions, and 2 Thess 3:6 commands them to shun anyone who doesnt keep the traditions.

Human tradition does not equal apostolic tradition, and apostolic tradition is the the Church runs on.

St Athanasius (360 AD) states that: let us not that the very tradition, teaching, and faith of the Catholic Church from the beginning, which the Lord gave, was preached by the Apostles, and was preserved by the Fathers. On this was the Church founded; and if anyone departs from this, he neither is nor any longer ought to be called a Christian. (Four Letters to Serapion of Thmius 1, 28)

Im not as extreme as Athanasius in the condemnation...

Origen (230 AD) states: The teaching of the Church has indeed been handed down through an order of succession from the Apostles, and remains in the Churches even to the present time. That alone is to be believed as the truth which is in no way at variance with ecclesiastical and apostolic tradition. (Fundamental Doctrines 1, preface, 2)

FURTHERMORE
Authority of the Church
Mt 28: 18-20 - Jesus delegates all power to the Apostles
Jn 20:23- apostles given power to forgive sins
Jn 20:21- Jesus gives apostles his own mission

St Iraneus (200ish AD), a disciple of Polycarp who was a disciple of John the Apostle writes: The Church, having recieved this preaching and this faith, although she is dissemenitated throughout the whole world, yet guarded it as if she occupied but one house. She likewise believes these things just as if she had but one soul and the same heart; and harmoniously she proclaims them and teaches them and hands them down, as if she possessed but one mouth. (Against the Heresies 1, 10, 2... a really hard read and long too)
 
--Matthew 10:27 is not in DARKNESS!--

And this is called a 'church' that has Peters keys to the kingdon, huh? :sad Read Matthew 10:27 But they were never a Revelation 2:5 'Virgin Candlestick in the first plaqce! And what they are doing is seen in Hebrews 6:6 & ALL yoked membership are PARTAKERS of this wickness, as seen in Revelation 18:4

Their openly documented garbage can is seen worldwide! Even drunken priests from communion wine! (as reported elsewhere) Not to mention the long held tradition of just moving their mess from one parish to another & trying to hush the 'boat rockers' or just pay them off. And the poor folk attending their schools?

Read some of their postings on here and elsewhere! What will awaken them up, Christ stated that if they will not 'hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rose from the dead."

Archbishop Sean O'Mally on talking of the plan 'to close 83 of 357 parishes' ... 'said the church's financial structure is "much worse than people realize" ... said the restructuring was prompted by factors including the clergy sex abuse scandal, settlements, declining attendance and fewer priests.'



UPDATE November 2000

New Study Finds Catholic Priests Dying From AIDS at Higher Than Expected Rate

According to a study following a January report on Catholic priests dying of AIDS, the Kansas City Star has found that the AIDS-related death rate among priests "exceeds earlier estimates." The Star reported in a three-part series in January that "hundreds of priests had died of AIDS-related illnesses and that hundreds more were living with the virus that causes the disease."

Follow-up research, based on death certificates and interviews with family members, found an additional 300 AIDS-related priest deaths nationwide. However, researchers were unable to count AIDS-related deaths in the nearly two-thirds of states that do not disclose death records, and experts say that the "exact AIDS death toll among U.S. priests will never be known." In the 14 states that allowed the Star to access death records, the paper found that the AIDS-related death rate among priests was "more than double" the rate among all adult males in those states and more than six times the rate among the general population in those states. The Star reports that these rates "exceeded the estimates and projections reported earlier this year by the newspaper," and the follow-up investigation reveals that "there is no longer any question that hundreds of priests have died of AIDS and that many bishops were aware of their plights."

Mixed Response

Eugene Kennedy, former priest and biographer of the late Cardinal Joseph Bernardin of Chicago, said, "The fact that you have priests having very active sexual lives, that you have priests contracting HIV and dying of AIDS and that they have refused to come to terms with this and tend to deny it, I don't see how you look at this and not say that these are symptoms of an unresolved sexual problem within the church."
....

The Church of England revealed this year that at least 25% of its priests had died of AIDS-related illnesses, and in September mandated that all Anglican bishops in southern Africa undergo HIV testing.

..

Rev. Thomas Reese, editor of America magazine, a national Jesuit publication, cited the biggest issue as the "silence surrounding ... gay priests." Reese said, "The silence highlights a tension in a church that defines homosexuality as 'intrinsically disordered' but relies on many gay men to celebrate the sacraments and carry out the work of the church."

Jon Fuller, a Jesuit priest and Boston physician who specializes in AIDS, lamented the fact that the Vatican discourages open discussions on sexuality, considers homosexual relations a sin and opposes "modern practice" of safe sex.

...

Kaiser Family Foundation

(in part & with my added highlites)
 
+JMJ+

And this is called a 'church' that has Peters keys to the kingdon, huh? Read Matthew 10:27 But they were never a Revelation 2:5 'Virgin Candlestick in the first plaqce! And what they are doing is seen in Hebrews 6:6 & ALL yoked membership are PARTAKERS of this wickness, as seen in Revelation 18:4

Their openly documented garbage can is seen worldwide! Even drunken priests from communion wine! (as reported elsewhere) Not to mention the long held tradition of just moving their mess from one parish to another & trying to hush the 'boat rockers' or just pay them off. And the poor folk attending their schools?

Read some of their postings on here and elsewhere! What will awaken them up, Christ stated that if they will not 'hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rose from the dead."

Archbishop Sean O'Mally on talking of the plan 'to close 83 of 357 parishes' ... 'said the church's financial structure is "much worse than people realize" ... said the restructuring was prompted by factors including the clergy sex abuse scandal, settlements, declining attendance and fewer priests.'


UPDATE November 2000

New Study Finds Catholic Priests Dying From AIDS at Higher Than Expected Rate

According to a study following a January report on Catholic priests dying of AIDS, the Kansas City Star has found that the AIDS-related death rate among priests "exceeds earlier estimates." The Star reported in a three-part series in January that "hundreds of priests had died of AIDS-related illnesses and that hundreds more were living with the virus that causes the disease."

Follow-up research, based on death certificates and interviews with family members, found an additional 300 AIDS-related priest deaths nationwide. However, researchers were unable to count AIDS-related deaths in the nearly two-thirds of states that do not disclose death records, and experts say that the "exact AIDS death toll among U.S. priests will never be known." In the 14 states that allowed the Star to access death records, the paper found that the AIDS-related death rate among priests was "more than double" the rate among all adult males in those states and more than six times the rate among the general population in those states. The Star reports that these rates "exceeded the estimates and projections reported earlier this year by the newspaper," and the follow-up investigation reveals that "there is no longer any question that hundreds of priests have died of AIDS and that many bishops were aware of their plights."

Mixed Response

Eugene Kennedy, former priest and biographer of the late Cardinal Joseph Bernardin of Chicago, said, "The fact that you have priests having very active sexual lives, that you have priests contracting HIV and dying of AIDS and that they have refused to come to terms with this and tend to deny it, I don't see how you look at this and not say that these are symptoms of an unresolved sexual problem within the church."
....

The Church of England revealed this year that at least 25% of its priests had died of AIDS-related illnesses, and in September mandated that all Anglican bishops in southern Africa undergo HIV testing.

..

Rev. Thomas Reese, editor of America magazine, a national Jesuit publication, cited the biggest issue as the "silence surrounding ... gay priests." Reese said, "The silence highlights a tension in a church that defines homosexuality as 'intrinsically disordered' but relies on many gay men to celebrate the sacraments and carry out the work of the church."

Jon Fuller, a Jesuit priest and Boston physician who specializes in AIDS, lamented the fact that the Vatican discourages open discussions on sexuality, considers homosexual relations a sin and opposes "modern practice" of safe sex.

...

Yeah, Priests, Protestant ministers, pastors, Boy Scout troop leaders, teachers, and babysitters.

Funny how the media ignores everyone of the above but the Priests.

What denmination are you?

Hmmmm.... Sinful men.... I guess your right... The gates of Hell did prevail, Jesus lied. Do you think that this changes anything?
Sure, if these men don't watch their step they will have hell to pay. But does Christ abandon His people because of sinful men? If that's the case Christianity, Protestant or Catholic, is doomed.
Do you really want me to go through a list of sinful men in Scripture?


As far as "safe sex" no Christian can except contraception as a moral.
 
The members of the Catholic Church may not be the most holy or moral men in the world and recently our priest have been getting a lot of bad press, but those priests are in the minority. So by condemning all Catholics because of the rather few priests (when ALL priests are taken into account) is like a Catholic saying Elizabeth I murdered a lot of Catholics, therefore all Protestants are murderers. Can you see the flawed logic here?

As to priets dieing of aids; aids can be transmitted sexually or through infected blood. Lets take the missionary priest in Africa, most of the priests are surronded by aids. They still care for the infected people. Some priests are infected through the blood, not sexually. And I am not saying that all priests who die of aids are infected by blood, but all are definatley not infected sexually. Please also keep in mind the 25% of priests in the Church of England have died is seperate than the number of Catholics. Not to mention that statistic would be continually changing due to ordinations and deaths.

As to Jesuits, they are not the brightest order of priests in the Church. Love them dearly, but if you want to get a dissenting opinion about a teaching of the Church your best bet is to start with the Jesuits.
 
Your postings are a waste of ones time, for now at least. You have no more of an idea of what Born Again means than your Revelation 18:4 'PARTAKER' relationship Aids infested priest, who gives one communion?? See Isaiah 59:1-2 Wow!

Just do your thing!
 
+JMJ+

Fellow Catholics,

Please observe how John the Baptist has failed to answer a single post. Please take notice at the fact that he has attacked Catholicism and Catholics without proof for his claims. Instead, he uses bold and red font and takes Scripture out of context.

John,

I'm not impressed. I want to see your theology; Not your rhetoric.
 
I agree. The scripture used is really just an attack, not an arguement.

John, did you know that pschologists actually recommended that the children who were abused by priests not come forward because the ensueing legal proceedings were believed to be more stressful then they were worth and would cause more damage? Did you know that the culture was a little different in the 70's than it is now? Back in the 70s, there wouldnt be any gay pride parades. There was nothing to be proud of. People wanted them to stay in the closet. Not so today. Alot has changed. So you continue to crucify a church (and probably mostly the American See of the Catholic Church) because you dont understand the culture. And when a priest has been falsely accused, you'll see that 'breaking news' on page 8, whereas the unproven scandal hit the front page.

Did you know that compared to our protestant brethren, sexual abuse by members of the priesthood is miniscule? Probably not. You attack the Catholic Church, maybe you can get money... You attack the local Assemblies of God church and you get the collected donations of 30 people. (Assemblies of God used only as an example here, not an attack) John, you dont actually say anything. I read your postings, and despite the difficulty i have reading it (due to Adult Attention Deficit and your used of multiple colors and basically anything else to catch the eye) I read it and have to say to myself that there really is nothing...

So yeah... theology, not rhetoric.
 
belovedwolfofgod said:
I agree. The scripture used is really just an attack, not an arguement. ...

*******
John here, you agree to what?? The 'post' has Scripture/less nothing! where is any of its scripture! Do you not know what DOCUMENTATION is?? Your Rome 'testimony' stuff cannot even hold up in a court of man's law.

And if you don't like the colors, (behold your scarlet colored beast of Revelation 17:1-5, zero in on verse 4!) then just do what your church does with the written Word. And your posting below.. on being proud???? :sad SICK!
*******


John, did you know ... culture was a little different in the 70's than it is now? Back in the 70s, there wouldnt be any gay pride parades. There was nothing to be proud of. People wanted them to stay in the closet. Not so today. ... .
 
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