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Interpreting the Bible

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In this post, I'll be talking about the methods of translation, biblical hermeneutics and lastly linguistics. Please note that none of this is my personal opinion. The data is widely available for research and confirmed by various publishing houses. This post may be long, but it is well worth reading over...


The three types of translation methods that are used are: formal equivalence, dynamic equivalence, and paraphrased (some translations mix and match).

Formal Equivalence (FE): this method tries to use a "word for word" approach, but also organizes the sentence structure to reflect the target language. As a result, some of the words may be moved around, added, or omitted in order for the text to make sense. It is the most accurate form of translation into the target language, outside of an interlinear bible. An interlinear bible is a style of FE, but it literally does word for word with total disregard for sentence structure.

The most common translations that fall in the FE category include the KJV (and revisions), ESV, RSV, AMP and the NASB (widely considered the most accurate modern English translation among Christian scholars).

Example: the Hebrew word ner means "oil lamp" at the time that the Bible was written. The FE method will translate ner as oil lamp.

Dynamic Equivalence (DE): this method uses a "thought for thought" approach, while trying to convert the text into a modern way of speaking, in the target language. The result is that some of the meaning may be lost, but the text is easier to understand. There are varied levels of DE, with some that are just a hair beyond the FE method, while others approach the paraphrased category. The DE translations are not quite as acurate as the FE ones.

The most common translations in the DE category include the the NIV, HCSB, NRSV, NET, NJB, NLT, GNT, REB, CEV, CEB and GW.

Example: the Hebrew word ner may be translated as oil lamp, or it may be translated as just lamp, candle, or light.


Paraphrased (PP): the paraphrased method uses a "we think it means this" approach to translation. This method is the least accurate and can actually distort what the Bible really says. One must be very careful when quoting from a PP version, as they often take verses out of context. They are very easy to read and understand, but can also present major problems.

The most common translations that use this method include children's bibles, as well as the LB, TV, TM, TEV, GNB, TLB, ERV and the NWT (on the very extreme end).

Example: the Hebrew word ner may be translated into whatever light source the author can think of (i.e. a Streamlight Stinger XT LED), if they even use it.

The PP is the most "dangerous" form of translation because unique denominations will re-write the Bible into their own version, and paraphrase a lot of the verses to support their unique views or system of beliefs. They often take verses out of context and give them new meaning, which are completely immaterial to the source text.


Moving on...

The common practice for early (or unique) translators and/or scholars (for any translation method) is to claim that they have been anointed and divinely inspired. This goes all the way back to the 1st century CE. To be "anointed" has two meanings:

1. To rub oil on your head/body (an early means to combat lice).
2. To be chosen, as if by God, for a specific purpose.

To be "divinely inspired" is a way of saying "God has/is speaking to me, and wants me to do this." Since no one can refute the claim, it has become the basis for many people (including false prophets) when they want to do something that might go against the grain (so to speak). If anyone claims this, take it with a grain of salt. Chances are, they are trying to gain acceptance, solidify their position, or become dictatorial toward their followers.


Biblical Hermeneutics (BH) is the study of principles of interpretation, with regard to the books (and verses) of the Bible. It covers both verbal and non-verbal communication, and it encompasses multiple views to include:

1. Jewish (which can be broken down into Tanakh commentaries, Talmudical; as well as Orthodox and Messianic views)
2. Christian (to include Christian Biblical exegesis, Roman Catholic principles, Trajectory [RMH] principles)
3. The study of what the words say, what they don't say, and what they might imply.

It is also worthy of noting that within the investigative styles, there are numerous methods and techniques of interpretation. BH is not for the faint of heart, nor is it for the close minded. You have to approach the subject with an open mind, and be willing to think outside of the box, as well as look at the bigger picture. You will learn from different cultures and their views on the Bible, the history behind the chapters, the storylines, etc. It is geared for those who are pursuing a MA or PhD in theology/divinity, and not taught in Sunday School or general church services (though some churches may offer pseudo-classes on it).


Linguistics is the study of languages, and can be further broken down into 3 types: language form, meaning and context. There are also subfields within each type to include grammar, syntax, morphology, phonology and phonetics. Subsets include social and political factors, culture and history, slang and jargon.

It is important for scholars to study linguistics because many languages have multiple meanings for the same word or phrase.

The NT of the Bible comes from the Greek texts. A word in Greek that was used in the Bible could literally have half a dozen different meanings, depending on the context, who was saying it, the time period, etc. Scholars have to pour over resource after resource, and eventually come up with a decision on what something means, usually by way of a group vote (rarely unanimous, there will be dissenters that think differently).


Whew! :crazy


What does all of this mean? Try to be open minded about the Bible, be willing to think outside of the box, look at the bigger picture, and if at all possible quote from a FE translation!
 
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Now for my personal opinion...

To understand the Bible, you have to go beyond what you learn in Sunday School, or what your pastor/priest teaches you. There are so many interpretations of the Bible. You really need to dig down deep, research the material, look at the history of the time, the politics, the philosophies, the culture, the laws, the wars/conflicts, etc. I fully understand that many people will not want to get that involved. It is a lot of work, very time consuming and very confusing. I dare say my approach is extreme. However, I am working toward my PhD in Theology, so for me it is a must.

Having said that, if you read the Bible (especially a FE translation or one of the higher end DE translations such as the NIV, NRSV or HCSB) and understand the message that God/Jesus is trying to tell us, you'll be fine.

Also, I don't remember which thread it was, but someone mentioned that anyone can be a minister/preacher and that they don't need a formal education in theology/divinity. While I agree with that statement to a certain extent, if that person goes beyond "preaching," and starts talking about doctrine, attempting to interpret the Bible, etc. they can quickly become...mistaken.
 
Now for my personal opinion...

To understand the Bible, you have to go beyond what you learn in Sunday School, or what your pastor/priest teaches you. There are so many interpretations of the Bible. You really need to dig down deep, research the material, look at the history of the time, the politics, the philosophies, the culture, the laws, the wars/conflicts, etc. I fully understand that many people will not want to get that involved. It is a lot of work, very time consuming and very confusing. I dare say my approach is extreme. However, I am working toward my PhD in Theology, so for me it is a must.

Having said that, if you read the Bible (especially a FE translation or one of the higher end DE translations such as the NIV, NRSV or HCSB) and understand the message that God/Jesus is trying to tell us, you'll be fine.

Also, I don't remember which thread it was, but someone mentioned that anyone can be a minister/preacher and that they don't need a formal education in theology/divinity. While I agree with that statement to a certain extent, if that person goes beyond "preaching," and starts talking about doctrine, attempting to interpret the Bible, etc. they can quickly become...mistaken.

Good posts, but I think that you really intimidated some people!
 
The first great and essential principle which must be ever present with us, when we study the Word of God, as a whole, is not to treat it as something which we have to interpret, but as being that which God has given in order to interpret Himself and His will to us.

i. This applies to Christ; as the Living Word.
When we speak of the "Word" we can never separate the Living Word, the Lord Jesus Christ; and the written word, the Scriptures of Truth.

Each of these is called the "Word," because the Greek word Logos is used of both.

Logos means the spoken or written word, because it makes manifest, and reveals to us the invisible thoughts.

It is used of Christ, the Living Word, because He reveals the invisible God. "No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, He being in the bosom of the Father, This one [hath] declared [Him]" (John 1:18).

It is not that we have to explain Christ, but that His mission is to explain God to us. He interprets the Father. And we have to believe Him.

The word "declare" in John 1:18 is important in this connection, and deeply interesting. It is from ek (ek), out of, or forth, and hgeomai (hegeomai), to lead. Hence the whole compound verb means to lead forth, to make known, to guide, interpret, unfold, reveal, and expound (Luke 24:35).* It is from this verb that we have the cognate noun Exegesis which means Exposition. Wycliffe renders it "He hath told out." The best Meaning is to make known.

* The word occurs only in Luke 24:35; John 1:18; Acts 10:8, 15:12,14, 21:19.

This is why Christ is called "The Word of God," because He makes known, reveals, and explains the Father.

This is why the Scriptures are called "the Word of God," because they make known the Father and the Son, by the Holy Spirit, the author of the Word.

Christ is "the Way" to the Father (John 14). He makes God known to us in all His attributes, will, and words. "I have given them Thy Word." It is always "THY Word" (John 17:8,14,17).

ii. In like manner the Written Word, the Scripture, is given in order to interpret, and to testify of Christ; and this is why (as we shall see as our next essential principle) Christ is the one great subject of the Word.

This is why the Holy Spirit is the interpreter of both. His mission is to glorify Christ (John 16:14). He receives and shows the "things of Christ" (John 14:15). But He shows them in the Written Word (1 Cor 2:9-14). And this is why it must be He and He alone who enables us to preach that Word.

Thus we have the Word in three manifestations:—

The Incarnate Word,
The Written Word,
The Preached Word.

There is no other. Christ reveals the Father. The Scripture reveals Christ. The Spirit reveals both in the written and in the preached Word (1 Cor 12:7,8).

How wonderfully does this magnify the preached Word; and show the solemnity of the charge in 2 Timothy 4:2, "Preach the Word."

It shows how small and worthless are all the schemes, tricks and contrivances of present-day evangelists and mission preachers with their ever-new fashions and modern methods, when we see what a high and dignified place God has given to the Preached Word.

How careful should we be that nothing in our manner or matter should lower that dignity, or imply in the slightest degree that the Written Word has lost any of its power; or needs any handmaids or helpmeets.


"I HAVE GIVEN THEM THY WORD"
is the all-sufficient assurance of the Lord Jesus Christ, speaking to the Father. He did not say I have given them Aids to devotion. He did not say I have given them a Hymn-book, or I have given them thy Word AND something else.

He did not give anything instead of, or in addition to, that Word.

And that being so, we are assured that the Word which He gave is all-sufficient, in itself, to accomplish all the purposes of God.

The Word that is preached makes known the Written Word; the Word that is written makes known Christ the Living Word; and Christ makes known God our Father.

iii. Hence it is, that the same things are stated of both the Living and the Written Word, as it is well put by Joseph Hart:—

The Scriptures and the Word
Bear one tremendous name,
The Living and the Written Word
In all things are the same.

This may be seen by noting carefully, in our reading, how precisely the same things are predicated of both one and the other.

We give a few by way of example:—

SIMILAR PREDICATES OF "CHRIST" AND "THE SCRIPTURES."
"His name is called THE WORD OF GOD," Rev 19:13.
They "pressed upon Him to hear THE WORD OF GOD," Luke 5:1.


The Prince of PEACE, Isa 9:6.
The Gospel of PEACE, Rom 10:15.


Jesus said,..."No man cometh unto the Father, but BY ME," John 14:6.
"Make me to go in the PATH of Thy Commandments," Psa 119:35.


"Jesus saith unto him, I am THE WAY," John 14:6.
"Teach me, O Lord, THE WAY of Thy statutes," Psa 119:33.


"I am...THE TRUTH," John 14:6.
"Thy Word is TRUTH," John 17:17.


Christ—"Full of grace and TRUTH," John 1:14.
"All Thy Commandments are TRUTH," Psa 119:151.


"These things saith He...that is TRUE," Rev 3:7.
"The Judgments of the Lord are TRUE," Psa 19:9.


"Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal LIFE," 1 John 5:20.
"Holding forth the Word of LIFE," Phil 2:16.


"A bone of Him shall not be broken," John 19:36.
"The scripture cannot be broken," John 10:35.


"I am the Living Bread...if any man eat of this Bread he shall LIVE for ever," John 6:51.
"Man shall not LIVE by bread alone, but by every Word of God," Luke 4:4.


"With Thee is the FOUNTAIN OF LIFE," Psa 36:9.
"Thy Law...is a FOUNTAIN OF LIFE," Prov 13:14.


Jesus said, "I am the LIGHT of the World," John 8:12.
David said, "Thy Word is a LIGHT unto my path," Psa 119:105.


"The Life was the LIGHT," John 1:4.
"The Law is LIGHT," Prov 6:23.


"Thou art my LAMP, O Lord," 2 Sam 22:29.
"Thy Word is a LAMP unto my feet," Psa 119:105.


"I, saith the Lord, will be unto her a wall of FIRE," Zech 2:5.
"Is not My Word like as a FIRE? saith the Lord," Jer 23:29.


"The Light of Israel shall be for a FIRE," Isa 10:17.
"I will make My Words in thy mouth FIRE," Jer 5:14.


"To you which believe, He is PRECIOUS," 1 Peter 2:7.
"Exceeding great and PRECIOUS Promises," 2 Peter 1:4.


"My beloved is...chiefest among ten THOUSAND," Song 5:10.
"The Law of Thy mouth is better unto me than THOUSANDS of gold and silver," Psa 119:72.


"His Mouth is most SWEET," Song 5:16.
"How SWEET are Thy Words unto my taste," Psa 119:103.


"His Name shall be called WONDERFUL," Isa 9:6.
"Thy Testimonies are WONDERFUL," Psa 119:129.


"Christ, the POWER OF GOD," 1 Cor 1:24.
"The Gospel is the POWER OF GOD," Rom 1:16.


Lord, "Thou art GOOD, and doest Good," Psa 119:68.
"GOOD is the Word of the Lord," Isa 39:8.


"Ye have known Him that is FROM THE BEGINNING," 1 John 2:13.
"Thy Word is true FROM THE BEGINNING," Psa 119:160.


"From Everlasting to EVERLASTING Thou art God," Psa 90:2.
"The righteousness of Thy Testimonies is EVERLASTING," Psa 119:144.


"Thy throne, O God, is FOR EVER AND EVER," Heb 1:8.
"Thy testimonies,...Thou hast founded them FOR EVER," Psa 119:152.


"The Lord shall ENDURE for ever," Psa 9:7.
"The Word of the Lord ENDURETH for ever," 1 Peter 1:25.


"Christ ABIDETH for ever," John 12:34.
"The Word of God...ABIDETH for ever," 1 Peter 1:23.


"Worship Him that LIVETH for ever," Rev 4:10.
"The Word of God LIVETH for ever," 1 Peter 1:23.


Christ's Kingdom "shall STAND FOR EVER," Dan 2:44.
"The Word of our God shall STAND FOR EVER," Isa 40:8.


The STONE..."on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder," Luke 20:18.
"Is not my Word...saith the Lord, like a HAMMER that breaketh the rock in pieces?" Jer 23:29.


Christ, "A STUMBLING Stone," Rom 9:33.
They "STUMBLE at the Word," 1 Peter 2:8.


"Lo, I am with you ALWAY, even unto the end of the world," Matt 28:20.
"Thy commandments...are EVER WITH ME," Psa 119:98.


"Christ may DWELL in your hearts by faith," Eph 3:17.
"Let the Word of Christ DWELL in you richly," Col 3:16.


Christ said, "ABIDE in me, and I IN YOU," John 15:4.
"If... my Words ABIDE in you," John 15:7.


"Hereby we know that He ABIDETH in us," 1 John 3:24.
"The Word of God ABIDETH in you," 1 John 2:14.


Christ called, "FAITHFUL and true," Rev 19:11.
"Thy Testimonies...are very FAITHFUL," Psa 119:138.


"Out of His mouth goeth a sharp SWORD," Rev 19:15.
"The Word of God...is sharper than any two-edged SWORD," Heb 4:12.*


* Heb 4:12 probably refers to both the Living Word and the written Word also.

"The Lord TRIETH the Righteous," Psa 11:5.
"The Word of the Lord TRIED him," Psa 105:19.


Christ a "TRIED Stone," Isa 28:16.
"The Word of the Lord is TRIED," Psa 18:30.


 
The only thing I didn't see in this was the reliance on the Holy Spirit to guide interpreters and shed light on the original meaning.
This is not to be regarded as relying on emotions or being arbitrary. WE are told that it is the work of the Holy Spirit to lead
Us into all truth. I am skeptical of the work of translators who are not Christians by their own admission.
 
The only thing I didn't see in this was the reliance on the Holy Spirit to guide interpreters and shed light on the original meaning.
This is not to be regarded as relying on emotions or being arbitrary. WE are told that it is the work of the Holy Spirit to lead
Us into all truth. I am skeptical of the work of translators who are not Christians by their own admission.
Admittedly, there are problems with non-believers and liberals translating the Bible.

However since translating is an exact science, especially in the Greek, due to its grammar, there is a great likelihood of honest scholars agreeing in the translations. Part of the reason for that is that all scholars agree that there is a 99.95% accuracy that using the Critical Apparatus, and comparing Scriptures with Scriptures we know exactly what the original authors wrote, and meant.

The issue is therefore, not having the ancient texts, but believing what they say, especially the part about being born from above.
 
Grace hit it spot on, in that biblical translation is an exact science. Christian or not, the translators will be checked and checked again. Material will be cross referenced. The only thing the committee that is assigned to the translation have to agree/vote on is when a word or phrase can have multiple meanings. That is when they look at the context, the time period, what other sources say, etc. They also have to look at current findings, what archaeology has uncovered, and what various religious governing bodies are saying (such as the U.S. Council of Catholic Bishops, or the Committee on Biblical Translations [NIV] from Zondervan Publishing).

Now, why are there so many different translations/versions of the Bible? Copyrights. The only version that does not have a copyright is the KJV. For one publishing house to use another's translation, they must pay a fee, and those fees are not cheap. There are also royalties off every item sold. It is cheaper in the long run to just do a new translation. Like it or not, there's big money in religion.

The only thing I didn't see in this was the reliance on the Holy Spirit to guide interpreters and shed light on the original meaning.
This is not to be regarded as relying on emotions or being arbitrary. WE are told that it is the work of the Holy Spirit to lead
Us into all truth. I am skeptical of the work of translators who are not Christians by their own admission.

Not everyone that translates for a publishing house is Christian. However, no publisher wants a product that will not sell or at least make a profit. That is why there are so many checks and cross references. If a version turns out to be complete garbage (no offense meant) it will not sell, the publishing house can lose credibility, etc. More times than not, modern scholars are not translating a brand new version, but taking an already published version, changing the format, choosing different words with the same meanings as the source, and thus producing a new work that they can copyright.
 
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Grace hit it spot on, in that biblical translation is an exact science.

Biblical interpretation cannot be an 'exact' science. As there are any number of translations it would appear that there are any number of 'exact' science - which seems contradictory.

Further - who will dare to claim 'exactness' with respect to human language?

Christian or not, the translators will be checked and checked again. Material will be cross referenced. The only thing the committee that is assigned to the translation have to agree/vote on is when a word or phrase can have multiple meanings. That is when they look at the context, the time period, what other sources say, etc. They also have to look at current findings, what archaeology has uncovered, and what various religious governing bodies are saying (such as the U.S. Council of Catholic Bishops, or the Committee on Biblical Translations [NIV] from Zondervan Publishing).

Indeed they do, but such scholarship does not make interpretation 'exact'. Any biblical text will offer alternative readings of particular passages or words. There is still no agreement on the ending to Mark.

Now, why are there so many different translations/versions of the Bible? Copyrights. The only version that does not have a copyright is the KJV. For one publishing house to use another's translation, they must pay a fee, and those fees are not cheap. There are also royalties off every item sold. It is cheaper in the long run to just do a new translation. Like it or not, there's big money in religion.

This has nothing to do with your initial premise and is therefore a strawman argument.
 
Biblical interpretation cannot be an 'exact' science.

No one ever said interpretation was an exact science. You are confusing translation with interpretation. Two entirely different things.

This has nothing to do with your initial premise and is therefore a strawman argument.

It was a follow-up to Carolyn's comment, thus relevant to the thread.
 
I almost forgot and failed to mention...

If you read through your Bible (or www.biblegateway.com), you'll notice little notations such as [a], [1], etc. above/below certain words, phrases and verses. Those are there to direct your attention to alternative meanings and suggestions for that given word, phrase or verse. They may also indicate a cross reference to another verse. The reason for those notations is because modern FE Bibles try to be as accurate as possible, and they give you more than one interpretation on many cases. The most commonly agreed upon will be the main text, but the dissention comments may also be presented. The differences may be minute, such as a single word.

I know this was probably a "duh!" post, but a lot of people don't bother with those little notations.
 
In this post, I'll be talking about the methods of translation, biblical hermeneutics and lastly linguistics. Please note that none of this is my personal opinion. The data is widely available for research and confirmed by various publishing houses. This post may be long, but it is well worth reading over...


The three types of translation methods that are used are: formal equivalence, dynamic equivalence, and paraphrased (some translations mix and match).

...
...

What does all of this mean? Try to be open minded about the Bible, be willing to think outside of the box, look at the bigger picture, and if at all possible quote from a FE translation!

Hurray for a competent explanation of biblical translation and hermeneutical interpretation! Did you write this from your own research or study?

Hopefully the post I just made here in the "God's word in english is true" thread will also be of some use in considering this topic.

God Bless,
~Josh
 
Grace hit it spot on, in that biblical translation is an exact science. Christian or not, the translators will be checked and checked again. Material will be cross referenced. The only thing the committee that is assigned to the translation have to agree/vote on is when a word or phrase can have multiple meanings. That is when they look at the context, the time period, what other sources say, etc. They also have to look at current findings, what archaeology has uncovered, and what various religious governing bodies are saying (such as the U.S. Council of Catholic Bishops, or the Committee on Biblical Translations [NIV] from Zondervan Publishing).

Well there are two things to keep in mind here. First, that a translation can only be as exact as the extent of our knowledge of the original languages (entire fields of study are dedicated to the acquisition of such knowledge and are still producing results), which sometimes changes or improves over time, hence some translational corrections in more modern versions (what you call "checked and checked again" - except over protracted periods of time as well). Thus translation is kind of a moving target over time, but not to the extent that we can't understand the Bible's message.

The other thing to keep in mind is the trouble of translating one language's idioms into another language and retain its meaning. As I wrote in the post that I linked to above:

It is valid to seek the meaning of the actual words in the act of interpretation (this will ultimately be fruitless without the Holy Spirit's work however), but translation should be as faithful and as literal as possible. And while that is the best approach it still yet needs to be kept in mind that a translation should not be too wooden so as to make it incomprehensible, and that the translator can have warrant to change the idioms that are used accordingly into the target language, lest we think that the literal translation of Exodus 17:14, for example, indicates that God commanded Moses to put a scroll into Joshua's ear (the literal Hebrew idiom) whereas it actually means to transfer the scroll's contents (its words) to Joshua by telling/rehearsing it to him. It was the words and not the scroll itself that was intended to be the object to "enter his ear" and reside in his heart & mind.

Thus target languages can never quite capture the sense of the original when it comes to idioms or "-isms" (like "Hebraisms" - expressions used in the Hebrew language but not other languages) with woodenly literal translations, and the best (but certainly not 'exact') equivalent that can be found for translation of its meaning should be sought in the target language if we want it to make sense to the audience in their target language. The "practical" (though certainly not trivial or simple) remedy is to learn the original language(s) and understand all the original idioms and "-isms" in the source language, but that is not viable for many people.

Anyway, just some additional considerations for this discussion.

God Bless,
~Josh
 
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Hurray for a competent explanation of biblical translation and hermeneutical interpretation! Did you write this from your own research or study?

Yes, from my own research and study. Working toward a PhD in theology for when I retire from law enforcement.

Edit: we see eye to eye (just read your other post). Must be an "Alabama" thing! ;)
 
Yes, from my own research and study. Working toward a PhD in theology for when I retire from law enforcement.

Very cool. I wanted to get a masters in theology at Beeson Divinity School at Samford (in Birmingham), but God had other plans for me. :) I have an entire bookshelf of theological and study references to offset a lack of any formal degree though.

Edit: we see eye to eye (just read your other post). Must be an "Alabama" thing! ;)

Haha! Score 2 for the Bible belt! :)

~Josh
 
Formal Equivalence (FE): this method tries to use a "word for word" approach, but also organizes the sentence structure to reflect the target language. As a result, some of the words may be moved around, added, or omitted in order for the text to make sense. It is the most accurate form of translation into the target language, outside of an interlinear bible. An interlinear bible is a style of FE, but it literally does word for word with total disregard for sentence structure.

The most common translations that fall in the FE category include the KJV (and revisions), ESV, RSV, AMP and the NASB (widely considered the most accurate modern English translation among Christian scholars).

Example: the Hebrew word ner means "oil lamp" at the time that the Bible was written. The FE method will translate ner as oil lamp.

Dynamic Equivalence (DE): this method uses a "thought for thought" approach, while trying to convert the text into a modern way of speaking, in the target language. The result is that some of the meaning may be lost, but the text is easier to understand. There are varied levels of DE, with some that are just a hair beyond the FE method, while others approach the paraphrased category. The DE translations are not quite as acurate as the FE ones.

The most common translations in the DE category include the the NIV, HCSB, NRSV, NET, NJB, NLT, GNT, REB, CEV, CEB and GW.

Example: the Hebrew word ner may be translated as oil lamp, or it may be translated as just lamp, candle, or light.



What does all of this mean? Try to be open minded about the Bible, be willing to think outside of the box, look at the bigger picture, and if at all possible quote from a FE translation!
I have some disagreement here but first I think you need to define what you mean by "accurate." If you mean, as I think you do, that the wording is as close as possible to the Greek, hence "word-for-word," then yes, FE translations are generally the most accurate.

However, that does not necessarily equate to accuracy of what is being said in whatever the target language is. Due to the complexities of translating koine Greek into some other language--English for example--there is always something lost in translation. The is where DE translations can do better then FE translations since they attempt to allow the reader to better understand what the author was trying to say. In this way they can be more accurate. With FE translations, the "exact" wording does not necessarily mean that the English reader, for example, is necessarily able to understand what the author was actually saying. Those who really have the best idea are those who fully understand koine Greek and can use Greek texts.

Of course, all translations have their issues, so it's best to use several. Personally, I stay away from paraphrased translations as well as the NLT, as it uses too much paraphrase, IMO. Apart from that, I do believe that the NRSV is considered FE.
 
I have some disagreement here but first I think you need to define what you mean by "accurate." If you mean, as I think you do, that the wording is as close as possible to the Greek, hence "word-for-word," then yes, FE translations are generally the most accurate.

However, that does not necessarily equate to accuracy of what is being said in whatever the target language is.

Yes, the reference was to "word for word accuracy" while using the target language's sentence structure. I also agree that DE translations can convey the message a little easier, but they give up some word for word accuracy (which is why they aim for 'thought for thought'). It's why I use a NASB-NIV parallel Bible.

Apart from that, I do believe that the NRSV is considered FE.

Depending on the chart you look at, the NRSV (and others) may be at the bottom edge of one method, or the top edge of another method. The HCSB is at the very top edge of the DE method, but it is one of the best thought out translations, IMHO. Of course, although it is the "Holman Christian Standard Bible," some refer to it as the "Hard Core Southern Baptist" Bible! :tongue
 
I have some disagreement here but first I think you need to define what you mean by "accurate." If you mean, as I think you do, that the wording is as close as possible to the Greek, hence "word-for-word," then yes, FE translations are generally the most accurate.

However, that does not necessarily equate to accuracy of what is being said in whatever the target language is. Due to the complexities of translating koine Greek into some other language--English for example--there is always something lost in translation. The is where DE translations can do better then FE translations since they attempt to allow the reader to better understand what the author was trying to say. In this way they can be more accurate. With FE translations, the "exact" wording does not necessarily mean that the English reader, for example, is necessarily able to understand what the author was actually saying. Those who really have the best idea are those who fully understand koine Greek and can use Greek texts.

Of course, all translations have their issues, so it's best to use several. Personally, I stay away from paraphrased translations as well as the NLT, as it uses too much paraphrase, IMO. Apart from that, I do believe that the NRSV is considered FE.

I think you are right here about DE capturing somethings that FE cannot. I can't quite get the example of idioms out of my head but it seems terribly meaningful and practical as an example of where a DE approach is needed. With the translation of Scripture in particular there is an extra aura of mystery and obfuscation about the language from the distance at which we are removed from its time, language, and culture because they are dead languages (ancient Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek - not their modern counterparts) which adds an extra dimension of difficulty to translate things. So we may be tempted to just chalk up the problem of translating idiomatic expressions to "well we just don't fully understand the language and culture at that time" because it is a dead language, however the same problem exists today between very modern languages. Since I happen to be learning German currently I can supply an interesting example or two.

A good number of idioms include uses of prepositions, which can wildly differ in their usage between languages and cannot be simply "carried over" even for cognate equivalents in another language. One example might be how in English we say "step by step" whereas in German that expression would be written "Schritt für Schritt". A literal (FE) rendering of that in English might be "step for step" which perhaps could mildly make sense in English but is grammatically/semantically wrong to say, and if we were to try to use the German equivalent for the English "by" in the German phrase it would look like "Schritt bei Schritt" which would be rendered back into English as meaning "Step with/at step" which doesn't make sense to either the German or English speaker.

Now for a more pointed example, consider the following interrogative sentence in English and the figure of speech/idiom that is in bold:

"What kind of car is that?"

In German you must phrase the question like this:

"Was für ein Auto ist das?"

So "What kind of" in English is "Was für" in German. Literally rendered into English with a strict FE method of translation that German sentence would be translated: "What for a car is that?". Try using that one the next time that you are at a store talking to people and see what kind of blank or confused stares you receive.

Their response might be something like:
"What did you just ask?"
Thinking to self: Hmm... maybe they speak broken English.
"Did you mean 'What is that car for'? Driving of course!"


The point is that you absolutely "must not" use a literal translation in some cases if you want it to make any sense when it comes to idioms that do not match between the source and target languages (if it renders it as nonsense). Now some idioms like the Bible's "lift a finger" (as in the Pharisees not lifting a finger to keep the law) may not render as nonsense if carried over literally, so it may be fine to use FE, but still one may have to elaborate on the text to explain what "lift a finger" actually means in the sentence. So my assertion is that sometimes it is "necessary" to use DE, at least in the case of idioms.

So as for a Bible translation example, Matthew 8:27 in English should be rendered:

"What kind of a man is this, that even the winds and the sea obey Him?" (NASB)

But in German should be rendered:

"Was ist das für ein Mann, daß ihm Wind und Meer gehorsam ist?" (Luther Bibel 1545)

"What kind of" and "Was für" ("What for") are not Formally Equivalent, but they are Dynamically Equivalent. And I argue that in this case Dynamically Equivalent wins the toss for what is needed. There is nothing to say that FE and DE can't be (and aren't) mixed in translations, and for as FE as the NASB is I have seen DE translations in it just like the NIV on occasion, so it also mixes FE and DE.

~Josh
 
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Hey Josh I think you might be hitting on an interlinear translation. These typically make no sense.

FE's do try to go word for word, but they also arrange in sentence structure. They are not 100% "literal," but they try to come as close as possible. I also agree that a good DE can provide more insight, however you start running into opinionated interpretations.

There is not a perfect translation, only perfect intentions.
 
Thanks Vanguard!

How do you like the inductive Bible study method? Do you mark and color your Bible?
 

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