E
Eve777
Guest
I find even some Christians I know, disagree on this topic. Most hate abortion but do allow for it on special occasions.
I think it is a Mortal Sin.
I think it is a Mortal Sin.
Christian Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
-
Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
-
-
Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
-
-
How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
-
K
Khristeeanos
Guest
Abortion is murder in 100% of the cases PERIOD!!!
E
evanman
Guest
I disagree with Abortion 100%, however I see no distinctions in the Bible as to sins being either Mortal or Venial.
Sin is Sin and All sin leads to death!
Sin is Sin and All sin leads to death!
Blazin Bones
Member
DIME Ministries said:
Agreed, but since I'm not Catholic can we get another option in the poll. Abortion is still a sin, I just don't think there's a difference between mortal and vienial sins. It's still wrong.
B
bibleberean
Guest
Quath said:
Murder is what God defines murder as. This is a Christian forum!
And don't you forget it...
541-388-6991
If you have a problem with that... give me a call.
Robert W. Hurzeler
Blazin Bones
Member
bibleberean said:
Good Point Berean. I didn't cacth that from Quath's post. Yes, indeed, these are christian forums, So we'll use God's definition if you don't mind.
Vic C.
Member
About the only time I would ever consider abortion is if there is no shadow of a doubt the mother's life (not health) is at risk. And even this would be a rough decision.
Indeed, the chances of this are slim in this day of modern technology.
But what about danger to the mother's life?
Indeed, the chances of this are slim in this day of modern technology.
But what about danger to the mother's life?
Baptists for Life
K
Khristeeanos
Guest
Quath said:
Quath, when an abortion takes place, the mother of the unborn child decides before hand to end the life inside her.
That is premeditated murder.
Blazin Bones
Member
Quath said:
I'd like to refer you to the Pentatuch. Read the whole thing. I don't know if there is a text that defines murder specifically, but there is a distinction between murder and killing look at the offering codes and the information about cities of refuge. If you can't glean a definition from there, no offense, but you must be on an elementry reading level. I know your Not Quath.
Featherbop
Member
Sin. Murder, specifically. One of the worst kinds...they can't even defend themselves...
B
Blue-Lightning
Guest
Some babies are born brain-dead and others are born with inflated heads where ambiotic fluid has gotten inside the skull. These babies risk the mother's health and are either dead or in agony right before they die. In these very rare situations, and in other situations where it is known that the mother or infant will die, I support medical abortion. I uphold that elective abortions that kill a separate, individual human are always sin.
BL
BL
Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary:
Murder:
1 : the crime of unlawfully killing a person especially with malice aforethought
What is the difference between killing and murder? It is whether it is legal.
God is against murder, not killing (obviously). If you believe that God defines murder as killing in a nonlegal manner, how is it different from the word "kill"? Or show me where abortion is defined as murder by the Bible. I am saying it is not there. Since other are saying it is there, just show me the verse.
Look at the following versus and see if God would really care if children or embryos are killed. See what God thinks of children:
Make ready to slaughter his sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants. (Isaiah 14:21 NAB)
The glory of Israel will fly away like a bird, for your children will die at birth or perish in the womb or never even be conceived. Even if your children do survive to grow up, I will take them from you. It will be a terrible day when I turn away and leave you alone. I have watched Israel become as beautiful and pleasant as Tyre. But now Israel will bring out her children to be slaughtered." O LORD, what should I request for your people? I will ask for wombs that don't give birth and breasts that give no milk. The LORD says, "All their wickedness began at Gilgal; there I began to hate them. I will drive them from my land because of their evil actions. I will love them no more because all their leaders are rebels. The people of Israel are stricken. Their roots are dried up; they will bear no more fruit. And if they give birth, I will slaughter their beloved children." (Hosea 9:11-16 NLT)
Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin your task right here at the Temple." So they began by killing the seventy leaders. "Defile the Temple!" the LORD commanded. "Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill! Go!" So they went throughout the city and did as they were told." (Ezekiel 9:5-7 NLT)
And at midnight the LORD killed all the firstborn sons in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn son of the captive in the dungeon. Even the firstborn of their livestock were killed. Pharaoh and his officials and all the people of Egypt woke up during the night, and loud wailing was heard throughout the land of Egypt. There was not a single house where someone had not died. (Exodus 12:29-30 NLT)
"You are my battle-ax and sword," says the LORD. "With you I will shatter nations and destroy many kingdoms. With you I will shatter armies, destroying the horse and rider, the chariot and charioteer. With you I will shatter men and women, old people and children, young men and maidens. With you I will shatter shepherds and flocks, farmers and oxen, captains and rulers. "As you watch, I will repay Babylon and the people of Babylonia for all the wrong they have done to my people in Jerusalem," says the LORD. "Look, O mighty mountain, destroyer of the earth! I am your enemy," says the LORD. "I will raise my fist against you, to roll you down from the heights. When I am finished, you will be nothing but a heap of rubble. You will be desolate forever. Even your stones will never again be used for building. You will be completely wiped out," says the LORD. (Jeremiah 51:20-26)
If even then you remain hostile toward me and refuse to obey, I will inflict you with seven more disasters for your sins. I will release wild animals that will kill your children and destroy your cattle, so your numbers will dwindle and your roads will be deserted. (Leviticus 26:21-22 NLT)
Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children. (Isaiah 13:15-18 NLT)
Quath
Murder:
1 : the crime of unlawfully killing a person especially with malice aforethought
What is the difference between killing and murder? It is whether it is legal.
God is against murder, not killing (obviously). If you believe that God defines murder as killing in a nonlegal manner, how is it different from the word "kill"? Or show me where abortion is defined as murder by the Bible. I am saying it is not there. Since other are saying it is there, just show me the verse.
Look at the following versus and see if God would really care if children or embryos are killed. See what God thinks of children:
Make ready to slaughter his sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants. (Isaiah 14:21 NAB)
The glory of Israel will fly away like a bird, for your children will die at birth or perish in the womb or never even be conceived. Even if your children do survive to grow up, I will take them from you. It will be a terrible day when I turn away and leave you alone. I have watched Israel become as beautiful and pleasant as Tyre. But now Israel will bring out her children to be slaughtered." O LORD, what should I request for your people? I will ask for wombs that don't give birth and breasts that give no milk. The LORD says, "All their wickedness began at Gilgal; there I began to hate them. I will drive them from my land because of their evil actions. I will love them no more because all their leaders are rebels. The people of Israel are stricken. Their roots are dried up; they will bear no more fruit. And if they give birth, I will slaughter their beloved children." (Hosea 9:11-16 NLT)
Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin your task right here at the Temple." So they began by killing the seventy leaders. "Defile the Temple!" the LORD commanded. "Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill! Go!" So they went throughout the city and did as they were told." (Ezekiel 9:5-7 NLT)
And at midnight the LORD killed all the firstborn sons in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn son of the captive in the dungeon. Even the firstborn of their livestock were killed. Pharaoh and his officials and all the people of Egypt woke up during the night, and loud wailing was heard throughout the land of Egypt. There was not a single house where someone had not died. (Exodus 12:29-30 NLT)
"You are my battle-ax and sword," says the LORD. "With you I will shatter nations and destroy many kingdoms. With you I will shatter armies, destroying the horse and rider, the chariot and charioteer. With you I will shatter men and women, old people and children, young men and maidens. With you I will shatter shepherds and flocks, farmers and oxen, captains and rulers. "As you watch, I will repay Babylon and the people of Babylonia for all the wrong they have done to my people in Jerusalem," says the LORD. "Look, O mighty mountain, destroyer of the earth! I am your enemy," says the LORD. "I will raise my fist against you, to roll you down from the heights. When I am finished, you will be nothing but a heap of rubble. You will be desolate forever. Even your stones will never again be used for building. You will be completely wiped out," says the LORD. (Jeremiah 51:20-26)
If even then you remain hostile toward me and refuse to obey, I will inflict you with seven more disasters for your sins. I will release wild animals that will kill your children and destroy your cattle, so your numbers will dwindle and your roads will be deserted. (Leviticus 26:21-22 NLT)
Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children. (Isaiah 13:15-18 NLT)
Quath
Blazin Bones
Member
Quath, Do you know why Jericho was the only city that had it's wall collapse in the way it did? Scientists have discovered the remains of babies inside the bricks of the city wall. This was there abortion. No wonder God punished them as he did.
B
bibleberean
Guest
Killing is permitted when God gives permission to do so.
God established the death penalty for murder... After the flood...
Genesis 9:5 And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man.
It is God who knows all things and is perfectly just who gave mankind the guidelines for this law.
Genesis 9:6 Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.
The first murder by man was when Cain killed his brother Abel.
Cain killed his brother because Abel's sacrifice was accepted by God and His was not accepted.
Genesis 4:6 And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?
Genesis 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.
Genesis 4:8 And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him.
The word slew is the same Hebrew word used for murder in proverbs 10:8
2026. harag
Search for H2026 in KJVSL
grh harag haw-rag'
a primitive root; to smite with deadly intent:--destroy, out of hand, kill, murder(-er), put to (death), make (slaughter), slay(-er), X surely.
Psalms 10:8 He sitteth in the lurking places of the villages: in the secret places doth he murder the innocent: his eyes are privily set against the poor.
Another word that defines murder in the Hebrew is:
7523. ratsach
Search for H7523 in KJVSL
xur ratsach raw-tsakh'
a primitive root; properly, to dash in pieces, i.e. kill (a human being), especially to murder:--put to death, kill, (man-)slay(-er), murder(-er).
God condones killing for the good of mankind and to execute His judgements. He establishes governments and Kingdoms for his own purposes.
Romans 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
Romans 13:2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
Romans 13:4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
God clearly teaches that life begins at conception.
Psalms 139:13 For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb.
Psalms 139:14 I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well.
Psalms 139:15 My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.
Psalms 139:16 Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.
God considers those young people in the womb to be babies.
Luke 1:41 And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:
The first murderer was the Devil.
John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
It is obvious that we have many of the Devil's children in this forum.
They try to murder people by doubting God. That is the way the Serpent operated and his evil children use the same tactics.
These are serpents who spend their pointless lives trying to cast dispersions on a God who is infinitely wiser than they are.
We can just relax and wait until that day God deals with these snakes. (unless they repent of their wickedness)
2 Thessalonians 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2 Thessalonians 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
The children of light have a glorious eternity of unsearchable riches and joy in our God.
1 Corinthians 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
Remember a fool will not receive correction.
Proverbs 17:10 A reproof entereth more into a wise man than an hundred stripes into a fool.
We like children trust in our God even when we don't fully understand everything He in His infinite wisdom brings to pass.
Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
Proverbs 3:6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.
Proverbs 3:7 Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil.
Amen
God established the death penalty for murder... After the flood...
Genesis 9:5 And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man.
It is God who knows all things and is perfectly just who gave mankind the guidelines for this law.
Genesis 9:6 Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.
The first murder by man was when Cain killed his brother Abel.
Cain killed his brother because Abel's sacrifice was accepted by God and His was not accepted.
Genesis 4:6 And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?
Genesis 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.
Genesis 4:8 And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him.
The word slew is the same Hebrew word used for murder in proverbs 10:8
2026. harag
Search for H2026 in KJVSL
grh harag haw-rag'
a primitive root; to smite with deadly intent:--destroy, out of hand, kill, murder(-er), put to (death), make (slaughter), slay(-er), X surely.
Psalms 10:8 He sitteth in the lurking places of the villages: in the secret places doth he murder the innocent: his eyes are privily set against the poor.
Another word that defines murder in the Hebrew is:
7523. ratsach
Search for H7523 in KJVSL
xur ratsach raw-tsakh'
a primitive root; properly, to dash in pieces, i.e. kill (a human being), especially to murder:--put to death, kill, (man-)slay(-er), murder(-er).
God condones killing for the good of mankind and to execute His judgements. He establishes governments and Kingdoms for his own purposes.
Romans 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
Romans 13:2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
Romans 13:4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
God clearly teaches that life begins at conception.
Psalms 139:13 For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb.
Psalms 139:14 I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well.
Psalms 139:15 My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.
Psalms 139:16 Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.
God considers those young people in the womb to be babies.
Luke 1:41 And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:
The first murderer was the Devil.
John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
It is obvious that we have many of the Devil's children in this forum.
They try to murder people by doubting God. That is the way the Serpent operated and his evil children use the same tactics.
These are serpents who spend their pointless lives trying to cast dispersions on a God who is infinitely wiser than they are.
We can just relax and wait until that day God deals with these snakes. (unless they repent of their wickedness)
2 Thessalonians 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2 Thessalonians 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
The children of light have a glorious eternity of unsearchable riches and joy in our God.
1 Corinthians 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
Remember a fool will not receive correction.
Proverbs 17:10 A reproof entereth more into a wise man than an hundred stripes into a fool.
We like children trust in our God even when we don't fully understand everything He in His infinite wisdom brings to pass.
Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
Proverbs 3:6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.
Proverbs 3:7 Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil.
Amen
The Hebrews also use to sacrifice humans to their gods. Why didn't God punish them just as badly?Brutus/HisCatalyst said:
So are you saying that murder is "illegal" in God's system of laws? If so, how do you know which ones are still in effect? Do you pick and choose which OT laws are still in effect?bibleberean said:
Did you read the Bible quotes I wrote? Can you read them and think that God thinks children are precious beings?
Quath
Blazin Bones
Member
Gary, I'm going to borrow your style for a post. 8-)
Brutus:
Quath, Do you know why Jericho was the only city that had it's wall collapse in the way it did? Scientists have discovered the remains of babies inside the bricks of the city wall. This was there abortion. No wonder God punished them as he did.
Quath:The Hebrews also use to sacrifice humans to their gods. Why didn't God punish them just as badly?
Brutus:Humans maybe, but give me proof. Babies, not last time I checked.
Brutus:
Quath, Do you know why Jericho was the only city that had it's wall collapse in the way it did? Scientists have discovered the remains of babies inside the bricks of the city wall. This was there abortion. No wonder God punished them as he did.
Quath:The Hebrews also use to sacrifice humans to their gods. Why didn't God punish them just as badly?
Brutus:Humans maybe, but give me proof. Babies, not last time I checked.
From http://www.fsmitha.com/h1/ch08.htm:Brutus/HisCatalyst said:
The high priest of Yahwism ordered lesser priests to Jerusalem, and he issued a new code that forbade all subjects of Josiah to practice religious rituals of "foreign" origin. According to the Old Testament, the code's proscriptions included religious ordeals of passing through fire. It included practicing witchcraft, sorcery, using omens, worshiping images of gods in wood or stone, and it included a prohibition against orgiastic fertility festivals -- festivals held in the spring and autumn that were accompanied by mass drunkenness and religious frenzy. The new code forbade all religious worship outside of Solomon's temple. Temples outside of Jerusalem were rendered unusable. The new code forbade human sacrifices. According to the Second Book of Kings (23:10), Josiah defiled a place called the "Topheth," a word meaning drums, which had been beaten loudly to drown out the screams of children being burned to death in sacrificial offerings. And the new code forbade the sacred prostitution that had been attached to temples, including the homosexual prostitution that was a part of Ba'al fertility worship.
Quath
Blazin Bones
Member
Quath said:
Now, look at your post, were the Israelites worshiping The One true God, or just the ones they chose? Oh Yes, where in your quotes did you see baby sacrifices?