Is Christ coming in our life time or is it history

[Hope of glory]

No resurrection is mentioned in Mark 13:26-27

Sorry, you couldn't be more wrong!!!

And then He will send His angels, and gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven.

As Paul uses this same term for resurrection -

1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come.


the farthest part of heaven.= even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.


JLB

Still not resurrection.
The context of Mark 13 is Jerusalems destruction (verses 1-4), a first century event
The disciples ask 2 questions regarding Jesus' prophecy (Jerusalems destruction)
Jesus then answers their questions (regarding Jerusalems destruction) in his discourse
Jesus says to his disciples (his generation), "this generation shall not pass until all these things be done". He clearly states that his "coming in the clouds" and the "gathering of
the elect" would be fulfilled within "that generation" (within 40 years of his speaking those words)
Mark 13 has nothing to do with anything after 70ad, the future coming of the Lord, or the resurrection. The words "gather together" do not necessarily mean resurrection.
As a matter of fact, verse 27 says ...."FROM the uttermost part of the TO the uttermost part of heaven.
He gathered the elect Jews FROM an earthly place TO a heavenly place. From mt. Sinai to Mt Zion, from old Jerusslem to new Jerusalem, from the house of Moses to the Church of the living God, from the old order to the kingdom of God, from law to grace...........
This is what 70ad and the 40 transitional period (30ad-70ad) was all about for the elect Jews!

My reasoning stands. No resurrection is mentioned, only a "gathering together of the elect" is mentioned and only in the context of Jerusalems destruction which Jesus said would take place within his generation.

I have answered your questions and responded to your follow up post, please do the same for me and address the following.
1. The language "apo arti" in Math..26:64? (Hereafter means: from now, from the present)
2. Show me a scripture where Ciaphas saw Jesus' second coming in a vision or by the Spirit?

Since the disciples only asked 2 questions, both regarding regarding Jerusalems destruction (mark 13:4), why would Jesus mention "seeing" the OAD (verse 14) and his "coming in the clouds" (verse 26) as part of his answer?

 

[JLB]

No resurrection is mentioned in Mark 13:26-27

Sorry, you couldn't be more wrong!!!

And then He will send His angels, and gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven.

As Paul uses this same term for resurrection -

1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come.


the farthest part of heaven.= even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.


JLB

Still not resurrection.
The context of Mark 13 is Jerusalems destruction (verses 1-4), a first century event
The disciples ask 2 questions regarding Jesus' prophecy (Jerusalems destruction)
Jesus then answers their questions (regarding Jerusalems destruction) in his discourse
Jesus says to his disciples (his generation), "this generation shall not pass until all these things be done". He clearly states that his "coming in the clouds" and the "gathering of the elect" would be fulfilled within "that generation" (within 40 years of his speaking those words)
Mark 13 has nothing to do with anything after 70ad, the future coming of the Lord, or the resurrection.

Question to you JLB.

Since the disciples only asked 2 questions, both regarding regarding Jerusalems destruction (mark 13:4), why would Jesus mention "seeing" the OAD (verse 14) and his "coming in the clouds" (verse 26) as part of his answer?

Show from Mark 13 the phrase destroy the city and sanctuary, and then the context will be about 70 AD.

Show where the fulfillment of the city of Jerusalem is destroyed in Mark 13.

24 "But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; 25 the stars of heaven will fall, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken. 26 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27 And then He will send His angels, and gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven.

The Great Tribulation has nothing to do with 70 AD.

The AoD has nothing to do with 70 AD.

Mark 13 has nothing to do with 70 AD.

There is no language about the destruction of the city in Mark 13.


JLB

 

[Deborah13]

Mark 13 has nothing to do with 70 AD.

There is no language about the destruction of the city in Mark 13.

Never mind the questions I asked you just answered them.

 

[Hope of glory]

OK, going to have to take the 5th on this one. I am not convinced Luke's Account gives enough description about "this Generation shall not pass" Need to look at some other things.

So putting away the scripture cannon for a bit.

Mike.

Brother Mike

I encourage you to take your concordance and look at every time Jesus speaks the phrase "this generation" in the gospels. There are about 15 references and each time it is clear that Jesus is referring to a single generation, his contemporary generation. (there is mo need to interpret "this generation" in Luke 21 differently)
Hopefully this will give you the biblical pattern and support you need to properly interpret "this generation" in Luke 21 as referring to Jesus' contemporary generation.
Blessings brother!

 

[JLB]

OK, going to have to take the 5th on this one. I am not convinced Luke's Account gives enough description about "this Generation shall not pass" Need to look at some other things.

So putting away the scripture cannon for a bit.

Mike.

Brother Mike

I encourage you to take your concordance and look at every time Jesus speaks the phrase "this generation" in the gospels. There are about 15 references and each time it is clear that Jesus is referring to a single generation, his contemporary generation. (there is mo need to interpret "this generation" in Luke 21 differently)
Hopefully this will give you the biblical pattern and support you need to properly interpret "this generation" in Luke 21 as referring to Jesus' contemporary generation.
Blessings brother!

The generation that sees the signs He gave is the generation that will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with power and great glory.

The great Tribulation would be one of those signs.


JLB

 

[Hope of glory]

No resurrection is mentioned in Mark 13:26-27

Sorry, you couldn't be more wrong!!!

And then He will send His angels, and gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven.

As Paul uses this same term for resurrection -

1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come.


the farthest part of heaven.= even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.


JLB

Still not resurrection.
The context of Mark 13 is Jerusalems destruction (verses 1-4), a first century event
The disciples ask 2 questions regarding Jesus' prophecy (Jerusalems destruction)
Jesus then answers their questions (regarding Jerusalems destruction) in his discourse
Jesus says to his disciples (his generation), "this generation shall not pass until all these things be done". He clearly states that his "coming in the clouds" and the "gathering of the elect" would be fulfilled within "that generation" (within 40 years of his speaking those words)
Mark 13 has nothing to do with anything after 70ad, the future coming of the Lord, or the resurrection.

Question to you JLB.

Since the disciples only asked 2 questions, both regarding regarding Jerusalems destruction (mark 13:4), why would Jesus mention "seeing" the OAD (verse 14) and his "coming in the clouds" (verse 26) as part of his answer?

Show from Mark 13 the phrase destroy the city and sanctuary, and then the context will be about 70 AD.

Show where the fulfillment of the city of Jerusalem is destroyed in Mark 13.

24 "But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; 25 the stars of heaven will fall, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken. 26 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27 And then He will send His angels, and gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven.

The Great Tribulation has nothing to do with 70 AD.

The AoD has nothing to do with 70 AD.

Mark 13 has nothing to do with 70 AD.

There is no language about the destruction of the city in Mark 13.


JLB

JLB

Mark 13:1 "As he went out of the temple...."
Question: Was this the temple of Herod? YES or NO?
Was this temple in Jerusalem? YES or NO?

....one of his disciples saith unto him, Master, See what manner of stones and what buildings are here?
Question: Were the disciples referring to the stones of the buildings of Jerusalem and the temple...YES or NO?

Verse 2 "and Jesus answering said unto him, seest thou these great buildings..."?
Question: Jesus was referring to the stones of the buildings of Jetusalem and the temple...YES or NO?
......"there shall not be left one stone upon another that shall not be thrown down"
Question: Jesus was prophesying of Jerusalem and the temples destruction...YES or NO?

Thank you for your honesty

 

[Brother Mike]

I encourage you to take your concordance and look at every time Jesus speaks the phrase "this generation" in the gospels. There are about 15 references and each time it is clear that Jesus is referring to a single generation, his contemporary generation. (there is mo need to interpret "this generation" in Luke 21 differently)

The generation that sees the signs He gave is the generation that will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with power and great glory.

The great Tribulation would be one of those signs.

Red Team or Blue Team?

Mike.

 

[Hope of glory]

OK, going to have to take the 5th on this one. I am not convinced Luke's Account gives enough description about "this Generation shall not pass" Need to look at some other things.

So putting away the scripture cannon for a bit.

Mike.

Brother Mike

I encourage you to take your concordance and look at every time Jesus speaks the phrase "this generation" in the gospels. There are about 15 references and each time it is clear that Jesus is referring to a single generation, his contemporary generation. (there is mo need to interpret "this generation" in Luke 21 differently)
Hopefully this will give you the biblical pattern and support you need to properly interpret "this generation" in Luke 21 as referring to Jesus' contemporary generation.
Blessings brother!

The generation that sees the signs He gave is the generation that will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with power and great glory.

The great Tribulation would be one of those signs.


JLB

JLB
We have been over this and you had no answer for my reasoning.
The scripture says "this generation will not pass until ALL THESE THINGS BE DONE". All these things includes more than just a "few signs". It encompasses ALL those things Jesus spoke!
Both verse 20 (Jerusalems surrounding and destruction) and verse 27 (jesus' coming in the clouds) are included in "all these things"!
The phrase "this generation" refers to one (a single) generation.

Question: How can a single generation "this generation" see both Jerusalems destruction and Jesus' future return?

 

[JLB]

Jesus was prophesying of Jerusalem and the temples destruction...YES or NO?

And Jesus answered and said to him, "Do you see these great buildings? Not one stone shall be left upon another, that shall not be thrown down. Mark 13:2

Matthew also clarifies -

1 Then Jesus went out and departed from the temple, and His disciples came up to show Him the buildings of the temple.

Based on the language of the scriptures and the context, the answer would be NO!

Then when you go to Daniel 9:26 -

26 "And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself; And the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end of it shall be with a flood, And till the end of the war desolations are determined.

We find specific biblical language to describe the events of 70 AD.

When we look for that language in Matthew, Mark and Luke, we don't find that language.

Yet, without the language that is used in Daniel, which Jesus pointed us to, in order to understand, you are trying to tell us the CONTEXT of THIS GENERATION IS link to the events of 70 AD.

How do you link the context of the scriptures to 70 AD, when there is no LANGUAGE OF 70 AD to tie the context to? :naughty




JLB

 

[Hope of glory]

Jesus was prophesying of Jerusalem and the temples destruction...YES or NO?

And Jesus answered and said to him, "Do you see these great buildings? Not one stone shall be left upon another, that shall not be thrown down. Mark 13:2

Matthew also clarifies -

1 Then Jesus went out and departed from the temple, and His disciples came up to show Him
the buildings of the temple.

Based on the language of the scriptures and the context, the answer would be NO!

Then when you go to Daniel 9:26 -

26 "And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself; And the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.
The end of it shall be with a flood, And till the end of the war desolations are determined.

We find specific biblical language to describe the events of 70 AD.

When we look for that language in Matthew, Mark and Luke, we don't find that language.

Yet, without the language that is used in Daniel, which Jesus pointed us to, in order to understand, you are trying to tell us the CONTEXT of THIS GENERATION IS link to the events of 70 AD.

How do you link the context of the scriptures to 70 AD, when there is no LANGUAGE OF 70 AD to tie the context to? :naughty



JLB

Please answer all my question from post 306
Thanks

 

[Hope of glory]

I encourage you to take your concordance and look at every time Jesus speaks the phrase "this generation" in the gospels. There are about 15 references and each time it is clear that Jesus is referring to a single generation, his contemporary generation. (there is mo need to interpret "this generation" in Luke 21 differently)

The generation that sees the signs He gave is the generation that will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with power and great glory.

The great Tribulation would be one of those signs.

Red Team or Blue Team?

Mike.

By the way, the "tribulation" is not even mentioned in Marl 13 and therefore not a "sign". How did a verse from Math.24 get in there?????? Sneaky......

 

[JLB]

I encourage you to take your concordance and look at every time Jesus speaks the phrase "this generation" in the gospels. There are about 15 references and each time it is clear that Jesus is referring to a single generation, his contemporary generation. (there is mo need to interpret "this generation" in Luke 21 differently)

The generation that sees the signs He gave is the generation that will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with power and great glory.

The great Tribulation would be one of those signs.

Red Team or Blue Team?

Mike.

By the way, the "tribulation" is not even mentioned in Marl 13 and therefore not a "sign". How did a verse from Math.24 get in there?????? Sneaky......

19 For in those days there will be tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the creation which God created until this time, nor ever shall be. 20 And unless the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect's sake, whom He chose, He shortened the days. Mark 13:19-20

Maybe you have some "special" bible, and that is why we have such a difference of opinion.


JLB

 

[Hope of glory]

Red Team or Blue Team?

Mike.

By the way, the "tribulation" is not even mentioned in Marl 13 and therefore not a "sign". How did a verse from Math.24
get in there?????? Sneaky......

19 For in those days there will be
tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the creation which God created until this time, nor ever shall be. 20 And unless the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect's sake, whom He chose, He shortened the days. Mark 13:19-20

Maybe you have some "special" bible, and that is why we have such a difference of opinion.


JLB

Sorry, I meant Luke 21. I was discussing Luke 21 with Brother Mike, not math 24 or Mark 13.
Please answer all my question from post 306

Thanks

 

[JLB]

Red Team or Blue Team?

Mike.

By the way, the "tribulation" is not even mentioned in Marl 13 and therefore not a "sign". How did a verse from Math.24
get in there?????? Sneaky......

19 For in those days there will be
tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the creation which God created until this time, nor ever shall be. 20 And unless the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect's sake, whom He chose, He shortened the days. Mark 13:19-20

Maybe you have some "special" bible, and that is why we have such a difference of opinion.


JLB

Sorry, I meant Luke 21. I was discussing Luke 21 with Brother Mike, not math 24 or Mark 13.
Please answer all my question from post 306

Thanks

I did in post 309.


JLB

 

[Brother Mike]

......"there shall not be left one stone upon another that shall not be thrown down"
Question: Jesus was prophesying of Jerusalem and the temples destruction...YES or NO?

Thank you for your honesty

Could I have the scripture about the actual destruction of the temple. I am reading over and formulating. I just want to see what temple that was in scripture. Thank you gentleman.

Mike.

 

[JLB]

......"there shall not be left one stone upon another that shall not be thrown down"
Question: Jesus was prophesying of Jerusalem and the temples destruction...YES or NO?

Thank you for your honesty

Could I have the scripture about the actual destruction of the temple. I am reading over and formulating. I just want to see what temple that was in scripture. Thank you gentleman.

Mike.

25 "Know therefore and understand, That from the going forth of the command To restore and build Jerusalem Until Messiah the Prince, There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; The street shall be built again, and the wall, Even in troublesome times. 26 "And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself; And the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end of it shall be with a flood, And till the end of the war desolations are determined. Daniel 9:25-26


... the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary... Temple destroyed in 70 AD


JLB

 

[Brother Mike]

the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary... Temple destroyed in 70 AD

Luk 21:5 And as some spake of the temple, how it was adorned with goodly stones and gifts, he said,
Luk 21:6 As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

Joh_2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.


Joh 2:20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
Joh 2:21 But he spake of the temple of his body.

Luk 23:45 And the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was rent in the midst.

Rev_3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
Luk 21:16 And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death.

What I am trying to do is find this temple that was supposedly destroyed that was adorned with goodly stones and gifts. Jesus the corner stone and called a gift? The disciples that became a pillar in the temple of God? The temple who lost the entrance door at the Lords death? Is it even mentioned again? Danial, possibly but is it the same temple? Is it the same temple that took like 46 years to build? Looking at other scriptures I can come up with things that at least seem plausible. May not be right, but plausible.

Joh_4:10 Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.

A lot of these post seem to have some sort of temple connected. Find the temple and the rest falls in place or helps explain some things. I want the exact connection of the temple Jesus was talking about in Luke 21 with something concrete to where you would have a hard time proving it was something else.

Blessings.

 

[JLB]

the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary... Temple destroyed in 70 AD

Luk 21:5 And as some spake of the temple, how it was adorned with goodly stones and gifts, he said,
Luk 21:6 As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

Joh_2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.


Joh 2:20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
Joh 2:21 But he spake of the temple of his body.

Luk 23:45 And the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was rent in the midst.

Rev_3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
Luk 21:16 And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death.

What I am trying to do is find this temple that was supposedly destroyed that was adorned with goodly stones and gifts. Jesus the corner stone and called a gift? The disciples that became a pillar in the temple of God? The temple who lost the entrance door at the Lords death? Is it even mentioned again? Danial, possibly but is it the same temple? Is it the same temple that took like 46 years to build? Looking at other scriptures I can come up with things that at least seem plausible. May not be right, but plausible.

Joh_4:10 Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.

A lot of these post seem to have some sort of temple connected. Find the temple and the rest falls in place or helps explain some things. I want the exact connection of the temple Jesus was talking about in Luke 21 with something concrete to where you would have a hard time proving it was something else.

Blessings.

Some things to consider.

Jesus made this pivotal statement in the middle of His Discourse that directs us to Daniel for the purpose of "understanding".

14 "So when you see the 'abomination of desolation,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not" (let the reader understand), "then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. Mark 13:14

Here are some things you will understand -


26 After those 62 weeks the Messiah will be cut off and will have nothing. The people of the coming prince will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come with a flood, and until the end there will be war; desolations are decreed.

• The people of the coming prince will destroy the city and the sanctuary. 70 AD

27 He will make a firm covenant with many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and offering. And the abomination of desolation will be on a wing of the temple until the decreed destruction is poured out on the desolator."

• The 70th week contains a Temple, after the one was destroyed in 70 AD.

• The 70th week is associated with a temple and the Abomination of Desolation.

• In 70 AD the Temple is destroyed and is not associated with the Abomination of Desolation.

Furthermore, both the Messiah cut off and the Temple destroyed happen after the 69th week, yet can not both fit into the 70th week, which is not mentioned until verse 27.

The Abomination of Desolation is hard-linked to the Great Tribulation.

These are just a few things that one will begin to understand when reviewing and studying this prophecy from Daniel the prophet.


JLB

 

[Brother Mike]

The Abomination of Desolation is hard-linked to the Great Tribulation.

I understand the Abomination of Desolation or the Abomination that makes desolate is Linked to something concerning the End.

the 70th week contains a Temple, after the one was destroyed in 70 AD.

Dan 9:26
Almost sounds as if this event a time is determined from that point according to desolations.

Dan_11:31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.
Dan_12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

A sanctuary appears again somewhere. Something set up, stand, that makes a lie is placed in this sanctuary.

In 70 AD the Temple is destroyed and is not associated with the Abomination of Desolation.

This would be After Paul. What scripture is this? I have a Sanctuary destroyed in Danial 9. I have another show up in Dan 11 and 12.

How the heck is Luke 21's Temple connected if at all with this Sanctuary? In Dan 9 or 11, 12 or is it connected at all. As far as I can tell the focus is this detestable thing set up that is a lie in some sanctuary.

Jesus could have just spoken about something that was going to happen, like the temple they were taking about was going to be torn down, don't bother admiring it in Luke 21. However, Jesus Words were selected by the Holy Spirit and the things he said out of many, many things would be for relevance to something else. In other Words, Jesus could have foretold of 10 temples that were not going to make it, but I believe we would only be given the account of ones that were important for some reason.

When was the temple destroyed (Scripture) Is it the same one mentioned in Luke 21? When did this sanctuary show up in Dan 11 and 12?

Why not called a temple hêykâl
Why Danial 9 is a Holy Place not sanctuary qôdesh (Denoting a Holy land or surrounding area that has other buildings besides temples)
Why Dan 11 and 12 Sanctuary? miqdâsh

Why the Holy Spirit switch around these words for the same thing?

Mike.

 

[Deborah13]

......"there shall not be left one stone upon another that shall not be thrown down"
Question: Jesus was prophesying of Jerusalem and the temples destruction...YES or NO?

Thank you for your honesty

Could I have the scripture about the actual destruction of the temple. I am reading over and formulating. I just want to see what temple that was in scripture. Thank you gentleman.

Mike.

25 "Know therefore and understand, That from the going forth of the command To restore and build Jerusalem Until Messiah the Prince, There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; The street shall be built again, and the wall, Even in troublesome times. 26 "And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself; And the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end of it shall be with a flood, And till the end of the war desolations are determined. Daniel 9:25-26


... the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary... Temple destroyed in 70 ADJLB

Daniel 9:25-26 Young's Literal Translation
25 And thou dost know, and dost consider wisely, from the going forth of the word to restore and to build Jerusalem till Messiah the Leader [is] seven weeks, and sixty and two weeks: the broad place hath been built again, and the rampart, even in the distress of the times.
26 And after the sixty and two weeks, cut off is Messiah, and the city and the holy place are not his, the Leader who hath come doth destroy the people; and its end [is] with a flood, and till the end [is] war, determined [are] desolations.

In the Greek/Hebrew Interlinear Bible at http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/dan9.pdf

It says, Messiah the Leader = mshich (anointed-one) ngid (governor)
It says, the Leader = ngid (governor)

Daniel 9:26-27 this is the translation used in [MENTION=90220]JLB[/MENTION] post (which is fine)

25 "Know therefore and understand, That from the going forth of the command To restore and build Jerusalem Until Messiah the Prince, There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; The street shall be built again, and the wall, Even in troublesome times. 26 "And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself; And the people (of the prince who is to come) Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end of it shall be with a flood, And till the end of the war desolations are determined. Daniel 9:25-26

By the rules of grammar in English we see that (of the prince who is to come) is a prepositional phrase. If we are to identify this (prince) we must go back to the last person mentioned, Messiah the Prince. Simple rules of grammar in English. This would be why Young identified the (prince) as the Leader (Messiah the Leader) notice he capitalized both.

It also tells us that the (people) were the people of the Messiah the Prince, the Jews themselves. Not only their practices left the "their house desolate" but they revolted against the Romans bringing on the war with Titus and Rome. We can read about this in the writings of the historians of the time.