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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
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https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
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Is Christmas celebration scriptural?
- Thread starter Classik
- Start date
How about this go and find the origins of your tree and tell me what you find .......... not the last 2 hundred years but the last 3000.
It is from pagan ritual I personally stay away from pagan ritual Why? It you read the second verse of Jeremiah 10 God say so right before He talks about the heathens cutting down the tree standing it up and decorating it. You do with it as you wish
peter
Oh, yes, the post I quoted was in fact your opening post. Sorry about that.
tim-from-pa
Member
Just so that you know, I agree with the stance you take on the Christmas tree. The Jeremiah passage can be used for trees because all the steps are there except the part where they fashion it into an idol. But I always quip that if we decide to skip a step, and just keep the tree intact, it makes it any better? LOL. The principle still applies because the Lord warns us not to learn the ways of the heathen, in which the tree is part (not just idols). There is adequate warning throughout scripture not to mix worship, even if done in sincerity.
The way I handle this holiday with the rest of family who wants to celebrate it is to just consider it a secular holiday with no personal worship but only have the decorations and gifts, akin to having parties and shooting off fireworks on the 4th of July. I go along with them because that's them, but I don't initiate it. In other words, if I lived as a hermit or single, I would not really bother beyond making the others happy but nothing for myself. I think it's a hokey sort of holiday.
As for "picking a date" to celebrate when Christ was born, might as well use the bible since it indicates it was in September, the feast of Trumpets, not a worldly date used in ancient religions. But really, God does not want us to celebrate birthdays, but rather use these same feast days that reveal his redemptive plan of salvation to mankind, be they now in this age, the millennium or the age to come.
Most of the tree, garland, branches, Santa's and whatnot seem to have a Celtic base to much of these, the same as Halloween. They are sibling holidays -- so celebrate one, celebrate both (which means I'm giving kids who want candy for Halloween some latitude when they are warned it's the "devil's holiday"). As a matter of fact, some say the most haunted night of the year is not Halloween night, midnight on November 1, but Christmas eve, December 25 (or more accurately, the winter solstice), thus the "scary ghost stories" that Andy Williams sings about and old Victorian themes like the "Christmas Carol". Halloween seems to just be the initiation of bigger spiritual activity later.
Tim what most people don't know is that this holiday was ban in this country due to its pagan origin till the mid 1800s. I agree about the date. It is an eye opener to know that Dec 25th (winter solstice) (birth of the sun) is also the birthday of All of the known sun-deities were 'born' on December the 25th, these include Mithra, Krishna (Vishnu), Osiris, Horus, Hercules, Dionysus (Bacchus), Tammuz, Indra.
But as I keep saying I don't care what others do. I like the way Chuck put it
CHARLES SPURGEON
QUOTESON CHRISTMAS
QUOTESON CHRISTMAS
We have no superstitious regard for times and seasons. Certainly we do not believe in the present ecclesiastical arrangement called Christmas: first, because we do not believe in the mass at all, but abhor it, whether it be said or sung in Latin or in English; and, secondly, because we find no Scriptural warrant whatever for observing any day as the birthday of the Savior; and, consequently, its observance is a superstition, because not of divine authority. (Charles Spurgeon, Sermon on Dec. 24, 1871).
When it can be proved that the observance of Christmas, Whitsuntide, and other Popish festivals was ever instituted by a divine statute, we also will attend to them, but not till then. It is as much our duty to reject the traditions of men, as to observe the ordinances of the Lord. We ask concerning every rite and rubric, "Is this a law of the God of Jacob?" and if it be not clearly so, it is of no authority with us, who walk in Christian liberty. (from Charles Spurgeon's Treasury of David on Psalm 81:4.)
I love Spurgeon,
peter
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The puritan's did that. But in catholic florida and LouisAna under Spain and France it was celebrated.
I can go either way.if it's a sin to you then simply dont.to me being a jew.celebrating the feast or torah can be a hindrance.it's not uncommon for messianic jews to become just jews.so I have to valence that.channukah is great but gelt,is a copy of Christmas gift giving.
I can go either way.if it's a sin to you then simply dont.to me being a jew.celebrating the feast or torah can be a hindrance.it's not uncommon for messianic jews to become just jews.so I have to valence that.channukah is great but gelt,is a copy of Christmas gift giving.
Not at all:Ph8th said:
http://christianforums.net/Fellowsh...as-celebration-scriptural.62476/#post-1152331
The passage in Jeremiah has no bearing on Christmas trees. You guys are making trees the focus of Jeremiah whereas the focus is clearly the making of idols (it is irrelevant as to what an idol is made of). You really need to stop taking this passage out of context.
turnorburn
Member
Maybe this was one of the reasons it was banned peter?
Santa Claus The Great Impostor..
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False Religions/Other Pagan Mumbo-Jumbo/santa_claus.htm
Corn Pop
Member
christmas is a mix of Jesus Christ and paganism, all people do is acknowledge the truth and throw out the rest. Weeding out the weeds. And saying xmas is not offensive because acknowleging the birth of Christ on the 25th is fine, but it is also a pagan day so it divides the two. One half is truth, the other is pagan festival.
I call it the acknowledging of the birth of Christ day, that is all it is to me, no fancy trees, no santa clause, no presents.
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Be careful brother I stirred up total havoc over a tree............ you my friend spoke badly of the sacred fat man
Obadiah
Member
Ah yes, this is true for parts of the country. I remember reading about this. It was banned by the same misguided people that at the same time banned organs and pianos from church because of their "pagan origins". I thank God daily that I am not required to live among and follow those people.
Obadiah
Member
Yeah, I know parts of it have those origins, but I've never known one single Christian who has ever used Christmas as a celebration of the birth of a sun god or any other such thing, And I've known A LOT of Christians in my time! Most don't even know about this.
I too celebrate it as the birth of Jesus, and I don't care that it's probably not the right day. The celebration is about His birth, not about the exact day it happened on. (Even the very youngest brand new Christians I've known had no problem understanding and accepting this.) To me, this whole controversy over Christians celebrating Christmas is much ado about nothing.
As I said I do not care what you do and as the scripture said that started all of this.
2 Thus saith the Lord, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.
3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest,
As I said I do not care what you do
The puritans not only were escaping the tyranny of the king but also that of the RCC. If you study your history you will see the RCC is responsible for martyring more Christians than any other religion in the world in fact many more that hitler killed jews. During the middle ages as many as 100 million Christians were martyred. This makes it real easy to understand why reformers Wycliff, westly. Luthur, knox and others claimed the papacy was the antichrist. This is the same reason puritans would not want to bring the holiday created by the RCC to America. It
Spurgeon wrote these words over 200 years later and the sentiment reained
CHARLES SPURGEON
We have no superstitious regard for times and seasons. Certainly we do not believe in the present ecclesiastical arrangement called Christmas: first, because we do not believe in the mass at all, but abhor it, whether it be said or sung in Latin or in English; and, secondly, because we find no Scriptural warrant whatever for observing any day as the birthday of the Savior; and, consequently, its observance is a superstition, because not of divine authority. (Charles Spurgeon, Sermon on Dec. 24, 1871).
When it can be proved that the observance of Christmas, Whitsuntide, and other Popish festivals was ever instituted by a divine statute, we also will attend to them, but not till then. It is as much our duty to reject the traditions of men, as to observe the ordinances of the Lord. We ask concerning every rite and rubric, "Is this a law of the God of Jacob?" and if it be not clearly so, it is of no authority with us, who walk in Christian liberty. (from Charles Spurgeon's Treasury of David on Psalm 81:4.)
peter
2 Thus saith the Lord, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.
3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest,
As I said I do not care what you do
The puritans not only were escaping the tyranny of the king but also that of the RCC. If you study your history you will see the RCC is responsible for martyring more Christians than any other religion in the world in fact many more that hitler killed jews. During the middle ages as many as 100 million Christians were martyred. This makes it real easy to understand why reformers Wycliff, westly. Luthur, knox and others claimed the papacy was the antichrist. This is the same reason puritans would not want to bring the holiday created by the RCC to America. It
Spurgeon wrote these words over 200 years later and the sentiment reained
CHARLES SPURGEON
We have no superstitious regard for times and seasons. Certainly we do not believe in the present ecclesiastical arrangement called Christmas: first, because we do not believe in the mass at all, but abhor it, whether it be said or sung in Latin or in English; and, secondly, because we find no Scriptural warrant whatever for observing any day as the birthday of the Savior; and, consequently, its observance is a superstition, because not of divine authority. (Charles Spurgeon, Sermon on Dec. 24, 1871).
When it can be proved that the observance of Christmas, Whitsuntide, and other Popish festivals was ever instituted by a divine statute, we also will attend to them, but not till then. It is as much our duty to reject the traditions of men, as to observe the ordinances of the Lord. We ask concerning every rite and rubric, "Is this a law of the God of Jacob?" and if it be not clearly so, it is of no authority with us, who walk in Christian liberty. (from Charles Spurgeon's Treasury of David on Psalm 81:4.)
peter
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Reba this does not make sense the actions of the pagans God forbids were those rituals done toward pagan Gods. I agree about your self assertion because Self/pride is the origin of all sin.
As I keep saying do what you want ........... you answer to God the same as I.
peter
ezra
Member
legalism at its best ! i do not go all out for Christmas we no longer put up a tree . its not because i consider it pagan.. yes many things are pagan associated . guess what i aint pagan i dont worship the Christmas tree . i have no problem with Santa Claus just tell kids about the Birth of Christ and god uses santa Claus to bring joy to kids. all this thread does is create division and does exactly what the devil wants.
{the actions of the pagans God forbids were those rituals done toward pagan Gods.} are you pagan? do you celebrate pagan style ?
{the actions of the pagans God forbids were those rituals done toward pagan Gods.} are you pagan? do you celebrate pagan style ?
Obadiah
Member
I understood her post perfectly. Just because scripture doesn't specifically tell us to do something doesn't mean we can't do it. And just because a non-christian (pagan?) does something doesn't mean we can't also do it.
Sure, we shouldn't use a Christmas tree (or anything else) as an object of worship of false gods. I don't think that's even a serious question here. If it is, please tell me how many Christians have personally told you they worship a pagan god with a tree on Christmas, or how many have you truthfully seen do this? I'll bet you can't name one. That's why I think this whole thread is all about worrying about something that doesn't exist or at the very least is so rare as to be all but unheard of.
Is using the symbol of the cross OK? The cross is a symbol of torture and suffering. So by your line of reasoning since that's what it originally stood for (just like some kind of tree was originally a pagan worship symbol) and since the gospel that we are to spread is certainly not about promoting or causing torture and suffering, how can you consider the symbol of the cross not to also be sinful? (Or maybe you do?)
I know you keep saying we can all do what we want, but that's really a pretty disingenuous statement when you combine it with scripture and claim by your interpretation of that scripture that those who don't agree with your interpretation of it are sinning against God by worshiping false gods. That's one of the reasons this conversation keeps on going despite your statements that others can do as they want. It's sort of like telling someone they can stick their hand in the fire if they want. Everyone knows you're not really saying it's ok with you. What people are really hearing you say is "Go ahead and do it so when you get burned you will admit how right I am". So the division goes on and on.
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I understood her post perfectly. Just because scripture doesn't specifically tell us to do something doesn't mean we can't do it. And just because a non-christian (pagan?) does something doesn't mean we can't also do it.
So this passage I posted means nothing?
2 Thus saith the Lord, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them
Sure, we shouldn't use a Christmas tree (or anything else) as an object of worship of false gods. I don't think that's even a serious question here. If it is, please tell me how many Christians have personally told you they worship a pagan god with a tree on Christmas, or how many have you truthfully seen do this? I'll bet you can't name one. That's why I think this whole thread is all about worrying about something that doesn't exist or at the very least is so rare as to be all but unheard of.
This is pagan worship you need to know the origin of things you do and not do them because you always have. Here is your example
Now you are trying to incorporate other things to muddy the water and attempting to make me out to be a heretic because I pointed out the pagan origins of a tree used on this holiday..... I would appreciate you stopping to do so.ToS 2.4
I know you keep saying we can all do what we want, but that's really a pretty disingenuous statement when you combine it with scripture and claim by your interpretation of that scripture that those who don't agree with your interpretation of it are sinning against God by worshiping false gods. That's one of the reasons this conversation keeps on going despite your statements that others can do as they want. It's sort of like telling someone they can stick their hand in the fire if they want. Everyone knows you're not really saying it's ok with you. What people are really hearing you say is "Go ahead and do it so when you get burned you will admit how right I am".
Now you are grasping at straws people disregard scripture all the time to suit their lust and wants. They even shape God into someone that is agreement with their sins.
It is a lie to say I wish bad on people. ToS 2.4
So the division goes on and on.
You do seem to keep giving it life
It is as much our duty to reject the traditions of men, as to observe the ordinances of the Lord.
secondly, because we find no Scriptural warrant whatever for observing any day as the birthday of the Savior; and, consequently, its observance is a superstition, because not of divine authority
These two statements of Spurgeon say volumes to the OP which was what my post have been all along with exceptions of defending myself
peter
So this passage I posted means nothing?
2 Thus saith the Lord, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them
Sure, we shouldn't use a Christmas tree (or anything else) as an object of worship of false gods. I don't think that's even a serious question here. If it is, please tell me how many Christians have personally told you they worship a pagan god with a tree on Christmas, or how many have you truthfully seen do this? I'll bet you can't name one. That's why I think this whole thread is all about worrying about something that doesn't exist or at the very least is so rare as to be all but unheard of.
This is pagan worship you need to know the origin of things you do and not do them because you always have. Here is your example
O Christmas Tree! O Christmas Tree!
Thy leaves are so unchanging;
O Christmas Tree! O Christmas Tree!
Thy leaves are so unchanging;
Not only green when summer's here,
But also when 'tis cold and drear.
O Christmas Tree! O Christmas Tree!
Thy leaves are so unchanging!
O Christmas Tree! O Christmas Tree!
Much pleasure thou can'st give me;
O Christmas Tree! O Christmas Tree!
Much pleasure thou can'st give me;
How often has the Christmas tree
Afforded me the greatest glee!
O Christmas Tree! O Christmas Tree!
Much pleasure thou can'st give me.
O Christmas Tree! O Christmas Tree!
Thy candles shine so brightly!
O Christmas Tree! O Christmas Tree!
Thy candles shine so brightly!
From base to summit, gay and bright,
There's only splendor for the sight.
O Christmas Tree! O Christmas Tree!
Thy candles shine so brightly!
O Christmas Tree! O Christmas Tree!
How richly God has decked thee!
O Christmas Tree! O Christmas Tree!
How richly God has decked thee!
Thou bidst us true and faithful be,
And trust in God unchangingly.
O Christmas Tree! O Christmas Tree!
How richly God has decked thee! !"
Is using the symbol of the cross OK? The cross is a symbol of torture and suffering. So by your line of reasoning since that's what it originally stood for (just like some kind of tree was originally a pagan worship symbol) and since the gospel that we are to spread is certainly not about promoting or causing torture and suffering, how can you consider the symbol of the cross not to also be sinful? (Or maybe you do?)Thy leaves are so unchanging;
O Christmas Tree! O Christmas Tree!
Thy leaves are so unchanging;
Not only green when summer's here,
But also when 'tis cold and drear.
O Christmas Tree! O Christmas Tree!
Thy leaves are so unchanging!
O Christmas Tree! O Christmas Tree!
Much pleasure thou can'st give me;
O Christmas Tree! O Christmas Tree!
Much pleasure thou can'st give me;
How often has the Christmas tree
Afforded me the greatest glee!
O Christmas Tree! O Christmas Tree!
Much pleasure thou can'st give me.
O Christmas Tree! O Christmas Tree!
Thy candles shine so brightly!
O Christmas Tree! O Christmas Tree!
Thy candles shine so brightly!
From base to summit, gay and bright,
There's only splendor for the sight.
O Christmas Tree! O Christmas Tree!
Thy candles shine so brightly!
O Christmas Tree! O Christmas Tree!
How richly God has decked thee!
O Christmas Tree! O Christmas Tree!
How richly God has decked thee!
Thou bidst us true and faithful be,
And trust in God unchangingly.
O Christmas Tree! O Christmas Tree!
How richly God has decked thee! !"
Now you are trying to incorporate other things to muddy the water and attempting to make me out to be a heretic because I pointed out the pagan origins of a tree used on this holiday..... I would appreciate you stopping to do so.ToS 2.4
I know you keep saying we can all do what we want, but that's really a pretty disingenuous statement when you combine it with scripture and claim by your interpretation of that scripture that those who don't agree with your interpretation of it are sinning against God by worshiping false gods. That's one of the reasons this conversation keeps on going despite your statements that others can do as they want. It's sort of like telling someone they can stick their hand in the fire if they want. Everyone knows you're not really saying it's ok with you. What people are really hearing you say is "Go ahead and do it so when you get burned you will admit how right I am".
Now you are grasping at straws people disregard scripture all the time to suit their lust and wants. They even shape God into someone that is agreement with their sins.
It is a lie to say I wish bad on people. ToS 2.4
So the division goes on and on.
You do seem to keep giving it life
It is as much our duty to reject the traditions of men, as to observe the ordinances of the Lord.
secondly, because we find no Scriptural warrant whatever for observing any day as the birthday of the Savior; and, consequently, its observance is a superstition, because not of divine authority
These two statements of Spurgeon say volumes to the OP which was what my post have been all along with exceptions of defending myself
peter
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Obadiah
Member
OK. I see how you want to be then. Half of what you posted has nothing to do with worshiping a false God and the other half has nothing to do with what Christians do at Christmas time.
By the way, while I have respect for much of what he had to say on many subjects, Spurgeon was not inspired by God to write scripture.
Have fun with your smokescreens and have a merry Christmas. I have to go and get back to god's work right now. See ya.
By the way, while I have respect for much of what he had to say on many subjects, Spurgeon was not inspired by God to write scripture.
Have fun with your smokescreens and have a merry Christmas. I have to go and get back to god's work right now. See ya.
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