Is death an illusion?

iLOVE · Dec 30, 2012

Is death an illusion for the renewed mind christians?

Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? John 11:25-26

Therefore we do not lose heart. Though outwardly we are wasting away, yet inwardly we are being renewed day by day. For our light and momentary troubles are achieving for us an eternal glory that far outweighs them all. So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen, since what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal. 2 Corinthians 4:16-18

tim-from-pa · Dec 30, 2012

Is death an illusion? ...

Nope. The bible says it is appointed unto man once to die. I.e. Everyone will die at least once.

Then one sleeps until the resurrection. Christians, the firstfruits of Yahweh's salvation are raised a spiritual body to live forever, and thus are born again. Two births, and one death, alternating.

For those who are unrepentant when given a chance, or again, those who never had a chance, will be raised (don't confuse resurrection with the Christian's being born again) either to life eternal, or the second death.

In the latter case, it's one birth and two deaths.

Vanguard · Dec 30, 2012

The cold, hard, truthful answer is...

You won't know until you die, but then it is too late.

Not to sound all negative or anything, but death is the great equalizer as well as the biggest mystery. What happens after death has yet to be materialized for the living. We have beliefs, theories and speculation, but nothing that can be proven 100% beyond a shadow of a doubt. Hold true to your beliefs, live your life, and die in peace.

Mitspa · Dec 30, 2012

iLOVE said:
Is death an illusion for the renewed mind christians?

Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? John 11:25-26

Therefore we do not lose heart. Though outwardly we are wasting away, yet inwardly we are being renewed day by day. For our light and momentary troubles are achieving for us an eternal glory that far outweighs them all. So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen, since what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal. 2 Corinthians 4:16-18

The scriptures take great care to never speak of a "believer" IN CHRIST. dying? They always use the term "sleep"

Because in the Mind of God and the Holy Spirit, we have in fact died with Christ.

Getting a "believer" to understand that, seems to be a great struggle against the carnal mind of flesh.

iLOVE · Dec 30, 2012

Mitspa said:
The scriptures take great care to never speak of a "believer" IN CHRIST. dying? They always use the term "sleep"

Because in the Mind of God and the Holy Spirit, we have in fact died with Christ.

Getting a "believer" to understand that, seems to be a great struggle against the carnal mind of flesh.

I 100% agree with you. The "believers" are all in process. They must give the Spirit time to work and mold each into maturity, but even in maturity, they will not all understand. A example to learn from (not to judge) is monitoring the Current Events & Politics forum.

Mitspa · Dec 30, 2012

iLOVE said:
I 100% agree with you. The "believers" are all in process. They must give the Spirit time to work and mold each into maturity, but even in maturity, they will not all understand. A example to learn from (not to judge) is monitoring the Current Events & Politics forum.

I will take your word for it! I have struggle enough with those who desire to be teachers of the law of sin and death.

Pizzaguy · Dec 30, 2012

Vanguard said:
The cold, hard, truthful answer is...

You won't know until you die, but then it is too late.

Not to sound all negative or anything, but death is the great equalizer as well as the biggest mystery. What happens after death has yet to be materialized for the living. We have beliefs, theories and speculation, but nothing that can be proven 100% beyond a shadow of a doubt. Hold true to your beliefs, live your life, and die in peace.

Die in peace. My dad managed to do that. Sure hope I can when my time comes.
(And, relatively speaking, it won't be all that long for me - I'm 52 already.)

Anyway, you are 100% right and well stated - we simply don't know. But I hold to the words of Jesus as recorded in the New Testament: "... I tell you the truth, this day, you will be with me in paradise."

Of course, maybe that first comma doesn't belong there. But Paul made it sound like HE believed that he'd be with Jesus as soon as he died.

Mitspa · Dec 30, 2012

Edward said:
It is written that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. I suppose this could apply in a spiritual sense also, being dead to the flesh and in Christ.

Wow edward, thats very deep! I will have to meditate on that but I already know in my mind and heart that I am with Him now! Blessings upon those who follow Christ to death and are raised with Him into His life!

Pizzaguy · Dec 30, 2012

That is the problem, Edward. There IS more than one way to take it.

But I wanna know.......

View attachment 2879

Pizzaguy · Dec 30, 2012

These kind of discussions are why my avatar is what it is. The discussion can go on forever, and nothing is settled.
You can pick and choose verses that prove you right... as can the other guy.

Of course, I'd get more from that avatar if I was a Monty Python fan.
("Faulty Towers" was the best BritCom...)

AirDancer · Dec 30, 2012

I was a Monty Python fan, PizzaGuy ... and I definitely appreciate your avatar. Takes me back to younger times.

And while I'm off-topic here.... let me just say that death isn't the illusion. As Joni Mitchell instructed in her hit song "Both Sides Now," the illusions were clouds, love and life.

:topic

totopic

reba · Dec 30, 2012

<dir>Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

When does everlasting life begin?
</dir>

tim-from-pa · Dec 31, 2012

Edward said:
Yeah, that just occurred to me when someone posted the scripture that is is appointed to all men to die once, then I thought what about those alive when the Lord comes and believe? then it just hit me. they have died when the became a believer

It has to apply because scripture can't lie

Well, if you want a pragmatic explanation regarding the flesh body, when one is translated to a glorified body the old flesh body dies doing it. A little Sci-Fi sounding like the person vaporizes and is instantly raised to that form. They never "sleep" in the sense that you have a body there to embalm. Also, they are transferred from one conscious state to another without a gap of time being unconscious (sleep). This is why the dead in Christ rise first. I guess you can say they already completed that step (death).

Mitspa · Dec 31, 2012

reba said:
<dir>Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

When does everlasting life begin?
</dir>

Also A very deep point! I think we see the truth of this "life" as Paul taught? The LAW of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus.

It kinda relates to another thread how do we make what is true in heaven true, here on the earth?

As we walk in the Spirit we walk in Gods Love, peach, joy etc..
All these things are life from heaven.

It all seems to work as the Lord spoke? "to him who has, more will be given" The more we see our true life as being with Him, more of His life, we are given.

iLOVE · Dec 31, 2012

iLOVE said:
Is death an illusion for the renewed mind christians?

Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? John 11:25-26

Therefore we do not lose heart. Though outwardly we are wasting away, yet inwardly we are being renewed day by day. For our light and momentary troubles are achieving for us an eternal glory that far outweighs them all. So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen, since what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal. 2 Corinthians 4:16-18

Once you die your Spirit and Soul either goes to heaven or hell. When Jesus returns those Christians in heaven (Spirit and Soul) will return to their new glorified bodies that sleeps on earth. Those in hell (Spirit and Soul) will remain there until judgement day. Those who rejected Lord Jesus doing the 1000 years and Armageddon will also have a judgement day.

King James · Dec 31, 2012

Those who fear earthly human death love the world too much(world=satan) and are most likely spiritually dead or dying.

Mitspa · Dec 31, 2012

Edward said:
Good point. I used to fear death but have no fear whatsoever anymore of death. I've even prayed for the Lord to take me before during a low point but thought that the Lord may have work to do with me still so followed up with a nevertheless Lord, not my but thine be done.

I understand what you are saying edward! It seems we all must in some way come to the end of all worldly hope? But then when we have past a certain point, we are ready for that which God has before us.

I always think of Peters words when the Lord saw that many refused to go on with Him , because He said you must eat My Body and Drink My Blood.
Peter said where else can we go Lord? You have the Words of life!
I have decided also there is no other option! Its to follow Him and there is no other way for me!
So I think what you are saying is the same thing, in a way?

We have only one desire before us! and all the other things have lost their appeal. For only He has Life!

from dust to life · Dec 31, 2012

iLOVE said:
Once you die your Spirit and Soul either goes to heaven or hell. When Jesus returns those Christians in heaven (Spirit and Soul) will return to their new glorified bodies that sleeps on earth. Those in hell (Spirit and Soul) will remain there until judgement day. Those who rejected Lord Jesus doing the 1000 years and Armageddon will also have a judgement day.

Wow, some interesting quotes and understand it something like that too.

But what is the difference between the spirit and the soul of a man?

When God breathed into man, he became a 'living soul', right? So is that 'spirit' that God breathed into man that enabled him to become a living soul?

We know that the body is dust, and will return to dust, yet we are given a new body, ... yet God has no body or form.... ???

I find this subject very interesting and I also believe it is very crucial for our deeper understanding of God the Creator, and us the 'created', what do you think?

Thanks

Odon

iLOVE · Dec 31, 2012

from dust to life said:
Wow, some interesting quotes and understand it something like that too.

But what is the difference between the spirit and the soul of a man?

When God breathed into man, he became a 'living soul', right? So is that 'spirit' that God breathed into man that enabled him to become a living soul?

We know that the body is dust, and will return to dust, yet we are given a new body, ... yet God has no body or form.... ???

I find this subject very interesting and I also believe it is very crucial for our deeper understanding of God the Creator, and us the 'created', what do you think?

Thanks

Odon

Man is body, soul, and spirit. When you became born-again your spirit died as Lord Jesus died on the cross. God The Holy Spirit (your new spirit) entered your body and soul that will never die or leave you if you remain in the righteousness of God. The body must die someday because of sin...but we are promise by God a new body that is sin free that will never die. Your soul is your mind. The soul is how you recognize your love ones in heaven. The soul=mind...it must be renewed daily by feeding it with the word of God.

Therefore we do not lose heart. Though outwardly we are wasting away, yet inwardly we are being renewed day by day. For our light and momentary troubles are achieving for us an eternal glory that far outweighs them all. So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen, since what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal. 2 Corinthians 4:16-18

You will never die again because you are reborn!!!!!!!!!!!!! Death is an illusion!!!!!!!!!
The Blood of Jesus has done it all for us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

from dust to life · Jan 2, 2013

iLOVE said:
Man is body, soul, and spirit. When you became born-again your spirit died as Lord Jesus died on the cross. God The Holy Spirit (your new spirit) entered your body and soul that will never die or leave you if you remain in the righteousness of God. The body must die someday because of sin...but we are promise by God a new body that is sin free that will never die. Your soul is your mind. The soul is how you recognize your love ones in heaven. The soul=mind...it must be renewed daily by feeding it with the word of God.

Therefore we do not lose heart. Though outwardly we are wasting away, yet inwardly we are being renewed day by day. For our light and momentary troubles are achieving for us an eternal glory that far outweighs them all. So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen, since what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal. 2 Corinthians 4:16-18

You will never die again because you are reborn!!!!!!!!!!!!! Death is an illusion!!!!!!!!!
The Blood of Jesus has done it all for us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I thank you so much for your response Brother.

So let me understand this, you believe that those of us who have accepted Christ that our 'spirit' died (mans spirit, I would think right?) and that now Gods Spirit resides in us? It makes sense, I can see that.

Now please forgive me for thinking out loud, but I am trying to understand this better, so here is what I understand so far:

According to what you said, man is body, soul and spirit, right?

OK, ... so God made the body of dust, so we have this physical body, got it.

Then He breathed into man, and man became a living soul, that makes sense too, so now as you said we are body and soul

Then you say that our soul is our mind, ... that too makes perfect sense, now we are body with a soul/mind as an individual from God, in God yet with a freedom of will.
So is the 'breath of life' that God breathed into us the 'power' (like electricity is to a computer) that drives us, that keeps us going?
Is this why it is written that when we die, our 'spirit' goes back to God from whence it was taken? Now if I understand you right, that too would make perfect sense.

Now here is my next question; if when we become 'born again', our human spirit dies and we become a New Creature that will never die (I understand that our body will eventually die, it is dust of course) ... is that 'New Creature' our mind? Is this why we are to be born in the 'newness of mind' and keep it alive by studying the Word of God?

I could never quite put all this together, but now this makes sense. Reality is really in our 'mind' then, it is here that we create, decide and make choices, the body (the physical body) is the illusion, and as you said; 'death is the illusion'.

Oh... but here is what troubles me, I understand that by 'putting sin out of our mind, we put to death the carnal mind', and that by this we are born again, ... right? Then why does this supposedly 'dead' mind of mine keep coming back to life, it keeps popping up every day!! Hunting me, wanting to LIVE again?

HOW... again, how can I be 'born again' if this 'old man', ... this sinful mind and supposedly dead mind of mine keeps popping up over and over again in me? Wouldn't this mean that it's still alive and not dead? How can something dead continue to be such a burden and DANGER to me?

Thanks again... I wait for your response.

Odon

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