Seems we all have a number of opinions..
crucifixion ends opinions. (or can; the flesh can rear itself up again if permitted)
http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/crossholyspirit.htm
Christian Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
-
Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
-
-
Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
-
-
How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
-
Is Divorce a Sin?
- Thread starter Knotical
- Start date
crucifixion ends opinions. (or can; the flesh can rear itself up again if permitted)
http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/crossholyspirit.htm
Deborah13
Member
Gal 4:3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:
1Co 7:15 But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.
bondage = G1402
douloō
doo-lo'-o
From G1401; to enslave (literally or figuratively): - bring into (be under) bondage, X given, become (make) servant.
A civil divorce means nothing only Biblical divorce counts.
If the believer is still under bondage to this marriage, not free to remarry (take a new person to be in bondage to), then the unbeliever can come back any time they choose for the rest of that believer's life and demand their rights as a husband/wife. As long as you are married in the Lord the spouse has spousal rights. It does not matter what a civil court says.
If we look at Galatians 4:3 we can see Paul using the same word to say an unbeliever is in bondage to sin. But when one becomes a Christian they are no longer in bondage, the are completely set free from that bondage and are now in bondage to Christ.
So when we look at adultery it is the same. Is a husband/wife free (no longer in bondage) to the spouse who committed adultery? Or are they still in bondage and not free to remarry?
Jesus only addressed divorce between Jewish believers. Paul addressed both, between two Christians he stayed with what Jesus said but he also had to address divorce between a non-Christian and a Christian.
So what I see is that in both cases one is either still in bondage to that marriage or they are not.
God's righteous determinations have not changed between the OT and the NT.
1Co 7:15 But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.
bondage = G1402
douloō
doo-lo'-o
From G1401; to enslave (literally or figuratively): - bring into (be under) bondage, X given, become (make) servant.
A civil divorce means nothing only Biblical divorce counts.
If the believer is still under bondage to this marriage, not free to remarry (take a new person to be in bondage to), then the unbeliever can come back any time they choose for the rest of that believer's life and demand their rights as a husband/wife. As long as you are married in the Lord the spouse has spousal rights. It does not matter what a civil court says.
If we look at Galatians 4:3 we can see Paul using the same word to say an unbeliever is in bondage to sin. But when one becomes a Christian they are no longer in bondage, the are completely set free from that bondage and are now in bondage to Christ.
So when we look at adultery it is the same. Is a husband/wife free (no longer in bondage) to the spouse who committed adultery? Or are they still in bondage and not free to remarry?
Jesus only addressed divorce between Jewish believers. Paul addressed both, between two Christians he stayed with what Jesus said but he also had to address divorce between a non-Christian and a Christian.
So what I see is that in both cases one is either still in bondage to that marriage or they are not.
God's righteous determinations have not changed between the OT and the NT.
Edward
2024 Supporter
Gal 4:3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:
1Co 7:15 But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.
bondage = G1402
douloō
doo-lo'-o
From G1401; to enslave (literally or figuratively): - bring into (be under) bondage, X given, become (make) servant.
A civil divorce means nothing only Biblical divorce counts.
If the believer is still under bondage to this marriage, not free to remarry (take a new person to be in bondage to), then the unbeliever can come back any time they choose for the rest of that believer's life and demand their rights as a husband/wife. As long as you are married in the Lord the spouse has spousal rights. It does not matter what a civil court says.
If we look at Galatians 4:3 we can see Paul using the same word to say an unbeliever is in bondage to sin. But when one becomes a Christian they are no longer in bondage, the are completely set free from that bondage and are now in bondage to Christ.
So when we look at adultery it is the same. Is a husband/wife free (no longer in bondage) to the spouse who committed adultery? Or are they still in bondage and not free to remarry?
Jesus only addressed divorce between Jewish believers. Paul addressed both, between two Christians he stayed with what Jesus said but he also had to address divorce between a non-Christian and a Christian.
So what I see is that in both cases one is either still in bondage to that marriage or they are not.
God's righteous determinations have not changed between the OT and the NT.
Wow, Deb, good post. i agree completely, but have one question...
"I" believe that this would apply to us also, because we have been grafted into the vine.
Would you agree with that? If not why not?
Deborah13
Member
I should have been more clear. I should have said they were Jewish Pharisees and believers in Judaism. They followed Moses Law, Moses as their mediator of the Law. So Jesus is addressing what the two schools were arguing about. He says that Moses allowed divorce for any cause because of the hardness of their hearts but it should have been allowed only in the case of fornication, sexual sins.
We are not grafted into Judaism or the natural, flesh nation of Israel. We are grafted into the Body of Christ being both Jew and Gentile, in Christ.
Paul taught what Jesus taught that when two people of the same faith whether it be Judaism (under the Law of Moses) or Christian (the Law of Christ) they are bound in a marriage covenant, they are in bondage to each other unless of coarse there is the same exception that Jesus made under the Law for fornication.
Of coarse this is just my opinion of what the scriptures show us.
Edward
2024 Supporter
Oh ok. I understand now and do agree. Definitely in Christ.
We do have the permission to divorce because of the hardness of our hearts for sure, as you say, but this does not mean that one would have to exercise it if there is any hope whatsoever. I continually am amazed at how the Lord is able to take a bad situation and turn it completely around into a blessing for us, if we will but let Him. So there is more hope than most people realize. Not only that, but staying and dealing with such a situation has the potential to cause enormous personal spiritual growth for oneself.
Divorcing, on the other hand, has the effect of delay, distraction (from the Lord) and almost always inhibits spiritual growth because one is off searching for the new helpmeet or learning and developing a relationship with the new one.
Hang in there if you can, brothers and sisters!
Deborah13
Member
Oh ok. I understand now and do agree. Definitely in Christ.
We do have the permission to divorce because of the hardness of our hearts for sure, as you say, but this does not mean that one would have to exercise it if there is any hope whatsoever. I continually am amazed at how the Lord is able to take a bad situation and turn it completely around into a blessing for us, if we will but let Him. So there is more hope than most people realize. Not only that, but staying and dealing with such a situation has the potential to cause enormous personal spiritual growth for oneself.
Divorcing, on the other hand, has the effect of delay, distraction (from the Lord) and almost always inhibits spiritual growth because one is off searching for the new helpmeet or learning and developing a relationship with the new one.
Hang in there if you can, brothers and sisters!
Jesus said they did NOT have permission to divorce because of hardness of the heart (for ANY cause) Moses said that Not Jesus. Jesus said ONLY for fornication.
Edward
2024 Supporter
Themessengeroftruth
Member
I believe she should separate but not divorce so she could be blameless if he was hitting her.
Let coals of fire be on his head by her righteousness
Yes,for the meantime not divorce.But....if he will not go to counseling to improve or does not want to be a better husband or father divorce would eventually be the outcome.
Themessengeroftruth
Member
You are correct for many do not understand the power of god. The way the scripture is written is how The Lord wants it to be
For many have eyes and can't see and many can hear but do not understand
Themessengeroftruth
Member
Maybe but why should she sin because of him? If he hits her and don't cheat and she divorce she sinned why should she fall n sin because of him
Think The Lord does not have power to deal with him according to his foolishness? He does. When time comes The Lord will remove him
For if he hits her he might cheat as well then she can put him away with divorce and she sinned not
But handled the situation wisely in the eyes of The Lord Christ
If this man wants to give his life to God and repent then....Amen
She would not sin for divorcing an abusive man.Do you think God wants a woman and her children to be abused?No He does not.
Themessengeroftruth
Member
How do you know? Do not be ignorant of this one thing brethren and sisters in The Lord it is god who sets one man against another as it is written
Ecclesiastes 7:14
In the day of prosperity be joyful, but in the day of adversity consider: God also hath set the one over against the other, to the end that man should find nothing after him.
This could be a test seeing if she would keep his commandments concerning marriage or not.
For like u told me if a man or women divorce except for sexual immorality that man or women sinned
He did not say for beating. But if he beats are chances are he cheats as well but The Lord could be testing her if he just beats her to see if she would keep his commandments and handle the matter wisely in the eyes of the lord
sorry Edward , go read what Yeshua said again. He didn't give us permission. He said Moses granted it because of their hardness of heart back then, then He said that (in the original language and customs of the Jews) they could only divorce if one of the betrothed was unfaithful during the engagement period. Not after the marriage was consumated.
(laymens page)
the marriage bed upside down is a webpage that explains in much more specific and biblical detail.
practically no english/western peoples understand.
Last edited by a moderator:
if you have time, (and if you don't), look through Scripture and the N.T. especially , how many times believers are told to endure quietly bad treatment.
even slaves are told to, and not to run away. (they may perhaps buy their freedom, but they are told to endure even the harsh owners treatment and to still obey as if they were obeying Yeshua Himself; also not to run from suffering , but to embrace it).
this requires grace, yes. and it is required in Scripture, and grace is given.
even slaves are told to, and not to run away. (they may perhaps buy their freedom, but they are told to endure even the harsh owners treatment and to still obey as if they were obeying Yeshua Himself; also not to run from suffering , but to embrace it).
this requires grace, yes. and it is required in Scripture, and grace is given.
Edward
2024 Supporter
I know, but he didn't really take away that option for fornication did He? I was going from memory but am pretty sure He didn't.
Like I said, still shouldn't. The power of God is great. Women are too fast to divorce nowadays. They want to be able to slap the crap out of their husbands, but if he lifts a hand to her she wants to run out the door. A bad mindset if you ask me.
Last edited by a moderator:
yes, He did. He limited it to only the engagement period, the betrothal time, before the marriage would be consumated. to the Jews, very well known, their betrothal period was binding and could be (i think) up to 2 years long, and during that time (we call engagement) they were considered married, but not living together nor having consumated the marriage.