Is Everything In the Bible Doctrinally to You Today?

[AVBunyan]

Is it all for you today - Yes or no?

God bless

 

[Heidi]

Is it all for you today - Yes or no?

God bless

If any of the bible is untrue, then how can we trust any of it? Just a guess? :o

 

[AVBunyan]

Is it all for you today - Yes or no?

God bless

If any of the bible is untrue, then how can we trust any of it? Just a guess? :o

I did not use the word "untrue" - I said doctrinally

Do you folks understand what the word doctrine means vs. what the word practical means? :o :o :o :-? :-? :-?

 

[ChristineES]

While I doubt seriously that I will be made a queen or anything, I think the basics of King David et. al. are still in use by myself. Things such as praising God, praying or whatever. I read about Noah's faith, Abraham's faith, Joshua's faith, and David's faith, (and very many others) and they inspire me. They had it so much tougher than I ever did. Plus they had to go by lots of things from the Torah, that Jesus fulfilled for us!!
Things in the NT still apply today. There are people who still worship idols, still have sexual immorality, and such. We have to live among these folks and still maintain our own faith.
So I say yes, it still applies!!!!!

 

[AVBunyan]

So I say yes, it still applies!!!!!

Do you still sacrifice lambs?

God bless

 

[Georges]

So I say yes, it still applies!!!!!

Do you still sacrifice lambs?

God bless

She doesn't have to....

1. She is a Gentile Christian.....only held (by James authority) to observe the Laws for Gentile Christians as of Acts 15...

2. There is no Temple so your question is moot....

Now if there were a Temple or a Mishkan (sp?). then as a Gentile Christian....ideally proselyting to Judaism...(As all God Fearers should aspired to) then yes, she would be expected to observe Mosaic Law as did the Apostles did post resurrection.

AV you keep asking the same questions in different threads.....how many more times before you understand that principle? At least once more....I know that....

 

[Heidi]

Is it all for you today - Yes or no?

God bless

If any of the bible is untrue, then how can we trust any of it? Just a guess? :o

I did not use the word "untrue" - I said doctrinally

Do you folks understand what the word doctrine means vs. what the word practical means? :o :o :o :-? :-? :-?

Why follow a doctrine if one doesn't think it's true? So it's very definitely about what's true and what's false.

 

[ChristineES]

So I say yes, it still applies!!!!!

Do you still sacrifice lambs?

God bless

Jesus was sacrificed in place of any lambs, so, as Heidi says, I do not need to any more.
On top of that I did say that Jesus fulfilled the law.
You do love to argue, don't you? :wink:

 

[Relic]

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Matthew 7:28
And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:

Mark 4:2
2 And he taught them many things by parables, and said unto them in his doctrine,

Mark 12:38
And he said unto them in his doctrine, Beware of the scribes, which love to go in long clothing, and love salutations in the marketplaces,

John 7:16-17
Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.

17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.


John 18:19
The high priest then asked Jesus of his disciples, and of his doctrine.


1 Timothy 4:6
If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained.

1 Timothy 6:1-6
1 Let as many servants as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honour, that the name of God and his doctrine be not blasphemed.
2 And they that have believing masters, let them not despise them, because they are brethren; but rather do them service, because they are faithful and beloved, partakers of the benefit. These things teach and exhort.
3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

6 But godliness with contentment is great gain.


2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

2 Timothy 4:2
Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

Titus 1:9
Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.

Titus 2:10
10 Not purloining, but shewing all good fidelity; that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Saviour in all things.

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Strong's Number: 1322 didaxh/

Original Word Word Origin
didaxh/ from (1321)

Transliterated Word Phonetic Spelling
Didache did-akh-ay'

Parts of Speech TDNT
Noun Feminine 2:163,161

Definition
1. teaching
a. that which is taught
b. doctrine, teaching, concerning something

2. the act of teaching, instruction
a. in religious assemblies of the Christians, to speak in the way of teaching, in distinction from other modes of speaking in public

Translated Words
KJV (30) - doctrine, 29; has been taught, 1;
NAS (30) - instruction, 2; teaching, 27; teachings, 1;
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[Relic]

So I say yes, it still applies!!!!!

Do you still sacrifice lambs?

God bless

She doesn't have to....

1. She is a Gentile Christian.....only held (by James authority) to observe the Laws for Gentile Christians as of Acts 15...

2. There is no Temple so your question is moot....

Now if there were a Temple or a Mishkan (sp?). then as a Gentile Christian....ideally proselyting to Judaism...(As all God Fearers should aspired to) then yes, she would be expected to observe Mosaic Law as did the Apostles did post resurrection.

AV you keep asking the same questions in different threads.....how many more times before you understand that principle? At least once more....I know that....

And Jesus will return as a Rabbi! He left as a Rabbi and will return as one! I truly believe that!

Mosaic law is for those who did not have a messiah redeemer. Christ is now the Holy Redeemer. But that does not mean he is not still a Rabbi!
Christ came to fulfill the law not to condemn it. I still believe we are to honor tradition. Christ did so in observing Passover and the wedding feasts. There is nothing wrong with tradition, it is good for embedding memories and giving honor from which we came and are going.


Doctrine is not completely wiped out, even though parts of it have been fulfilled/changed through our messiah Christ our Holy Redeemer, we must still honor that which applies and is of sound godly advice.
Seems to me most of what was taken care of is that the atonement of sins through the sacrificial lamb who takes away the sins of the world... meaning there is now no need for a lamb sacrifice to atone for sins, because Christ did that for us once and for all.
That however, does not change the examples given for us pertaining to moral doctrines which define the integrity in and of Godly character. These are for us to follow through Christ living in us, through us. This is a daily bread we all must eat.


.

 

[ChristineES]

Thanks Relic, you put into words what I could not.

 

[Relic]

Thanks Relic, you put into words what I could not.

And God put words into my mouth what I could not! :

I just thank God when it comes out right. And I still do expect to receive correction when I missed it. Humble pie never hurt anyone :wink:

.

 

[Heidi]

So I say yes, it still applies!!!!!

Do you still sacrifice lambs?

God bless

She doesn't have to....

1. She is a Gentile Christian.....only held (by James authority) to observe the Laws for Gentile Christians as of Acts 15...

2. There is no Temple so your question is moot....

Now if there were a Temple or a Mishkan (sp?). then as a Gentile Christian....ideally proselyting to Judaism...(As all God Fearers should aspired to) then yes, she would be expected to observe Mosaic Law as did the Apostles did post resurrection.

AV you keep asking the same questions in different threads.....how many more times before you understand that principle? At least once more....I know that....

And Jesus will return as a Rabbi! He left as a Rabbi and will return as one! I truly believe that!

Mosaic law is for those who did not have a messiah redeemer. Christ is now the Holy Redeemer. But that does not mean he is not still a Rabbi!
Christ came to fulfill the law not to condemn it. I still believe we are to honor tradition. Christ did so in observing Passover and the wedding feasts. There is nothing wrong with tradition, it is good for embedding memories and giving honor from which we came and are going.


Doctrine is not completely wiped out, even though parts of it have been fulfilled/changed through our messiah Christ our Holy Redeemer, we must still honor that which applies and is of sound godly advice.
Seems to me most of what was taken care of is that the atonement of sins through the sacrificial lamb who takes away the sins of the world... meaning there is now no need for a lamb sacrifice to atone for sins, because Christ did that for us once and for all.
That however, does not change the examples given for us pertaining to moral doctrines which define the integrity in and of Godly character. These are for us to follow through Christ living in us, through us. This is a daily bread we all must eat.


.

The new covenant doctrine is what we must follow.

Hebrews 8: 6-6, "But the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the convenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one, and it is found on better promises. For if there had been nothing wrong with the first covenant, no place would have been sought for another."

Colossians 2:13-14, "Wehn you were dead in your sins, and in the uncircumsicion of your nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that what was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took away, nailing it to the cross."

Colossians 2:16-16, "Therefore, do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a Shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ."

Again, the OT is merely a shadow of what Jesus would do with his blood. The reality can be found in Christ. The law now only exists to convict us of sin and we come Jesus for forgiveness which wipes them away. instead of being a slave to the law. That is why it's called "resting in Christ." This is the New covenant given to us by Christ's sacrifice on the cross.

 

[Georges]

So I say yes, it still applies!!!!!

Do you still sacrifice lambs?

God bless

She doesn't have to....

1. She is a Gentile Christian.....only held (by James authority) to observe the Laws for Gentile Christians as of Acts 15...

2. There is no Temple so your question is moot....

Now if there were a Temple or a Mishkan (sp?). then as a Gentile Christian....ideally proselyting to Judaism...(As all God Fearers should aspired to) then yes, she would be expected to observe Mosaic Law as did the Apostles did post resurrection.

AV you keep asking the same questions in different threads.....how many more times before you understand that principle? At least once more....I know that....

And Jesus will return as a Rabbi! He left as a Rabbi and will return as one! I truly believe that!

Mosaic law is for those who did not have a messiah redeemer. Christ is now the Holy Redeemer. But that does not mean he is not still a Rabbi!
Christ came to fulfill the law not to condemn it. I still believe we are to honor tradition. Christ did so in observing Passover and the wedding feasts. There is nothing wrong with tradition, it is good for embedding memories and giving honor from which we came and are going.


Doctrine is not completely wiped out, even though parts of it have been fulfilled/changed through our messiah Christ our Holy Redeemer, we must still honor that which applies and is of sound godly advice.
Seems to me most of what was taken care of is that the atonement of sins through the sacrificial lamb who takes away the sins of the world... meaning there is now no need for a lamb sacrifice to atone for sins, because Christ did that for us once and for all.
That however, does not change the examples given for us pertaining to moral doctrines which define the integrity in and of Godly character. These are for us to follow through Christ living in us, through us. This is a daily bread we all must eat.


.

Better Check Ezekiel 40-46 on that.....Messiah (the Prince) will be officating sacrifices and teaching Torah during the Messianic Millennium.....That is when the New Covenent takes effect....Even Christ himself at the last supper said he wouldn't patake of the New Covenant until the Kingdom period.

 

[AVBunyan]

The new covenant doctrine is what we must follow.

Are you Israel?
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

Ok then follow it:
Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

Then don't tell people about the Lord anymore..

Mercy Heidi - vs. 11 is dealing with the coming earthly kingdom after the tribulation where Christ will be physically and visibly on the throne - everybody will know that! :o

God bless

 

[Relic]

Better Check Ezekiel 40-46 on that.....Messiah (the Prince) will be officating sacrifices and teaching Torah during the Messianic Millennium.....That is when the New Covenent takes effect....Even Christ himself at the last supper said he wouldn't patake of the New Covenant until the Kingdom period.

Nothing like throwing in a monkey wrench here and there :-?

However, there is still much debate/speculation about the "re-built" temple Ezekiel saw in his vision. I am not the expert on such subjects as Ezekiel's vision and have not yet come to a conclusion because I am still learning on this matter.

But I must say, isn't it interesting that Ezekiel's vision happened after King Nebuchadnezzar burned the city of Jerusalem and destroyed the temple, and then the second temple was built afterwards.
King Nebuchadnezzar, circa 587 BCE ( on the 9th of AV )
Eziekiel's vision circa 573 BCE ( a new temple will be built )
Second temple built Started circa 541 BCE ( completed after a 15 year delay in 515 BCE )



Georges, you may find these following articles interesting:

Highlights in the History of Jerusalem and the Temple Mount
by Lambert Dolphin
http://www.templemount.org/history.htm

The Temple Of Ezekiel
by Lambert Dolphin
http://www.templemount.org/ezektmp.html

ISRAEL'S FUTURE THIRD AND FOURTH TEMPLES
by Lambert Dolphin
http://www.templemount.org/TM34.html



As far as rituals and the offereings of lambs and bullocks (meat offereings) for burnt offering and peace offerings...
Well, I am still not clear as to why one would think Jesus would still perform those types of rituals when He is considered the sacrificial Lamb of God and it is already done with. :smt017
Georges, Can you explain to me why would Jesus would do such a thing after he returns to rule from the temple mount in Jerusalem?

Since Jesus is the atonement, why would there be any more need for such practices? To continue to kill animals for atonement... Seems there is something amiss here. :smt017

People still observe Passover,
but yet they don't literally put blood on their door posts any longer, do they? :o :smt102


Much still needs to be studied, so back to the books for me concerning this vision of Ezekiel!

So for now, I stand on what I have presented, and, until the Lord shows me differently....
I believe the moral laws will never be changed. But the sacrificial laws HAVE been transformed by the sacrificial blood of Jesus Christ.
We have taken up our own crosses and follow Him. Now we are crucified along with him. We are dead to sin, alive in Christ Jesus.
No more need to make atonement for sins or for peace through the sacrifice of animals.

What say you about Hebrews 9:1-28, Georges?

• Hebrews 9:1-28
  1 Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.
  2 For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary.
  3 And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all;
  4 Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant;
  5 And over it the cherubims of glory shadowing the mercyseat; of which we cannot now speak particularly.
  6 Now when these things were thus ordained, the priests went always into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the service of God.
  7 But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people:
  
  8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:
  9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
  10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.
  11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
  12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
  13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
  14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
  
  15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
  16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
  17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
  18 Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood.
  19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people, 20 Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.
  21 Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.
  22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
  
  23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
  24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us: 25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;
  26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
  27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
  28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Also, what say ye about Hebrews 10:1-18 , Georges?

• Hebrews 10:1-18
  1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
  2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
  3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
  4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
  5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
  6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
  
  7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
  8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
  9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
  10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
  11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
  12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
  13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
  14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
  15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
  16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
  17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
  18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

Georges, It is already a done deal. :bday:



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[ChristineES]

About the passover, A Jewish Christian rabbi/preacher explained it like something along the lines of this- Jesus was the passover lamb, in place of putting blood on the door stop, Jesus drank with His Apostles wine in place of the blood. In eating of the bread, it was in place of eating the lamb that the Israelites ate at passover, since they could not eat Jesus' flesh. Jesus said that the bread was His Body.
It makes sense when it is described that way.

Also, The Law (The Torah) is the Old Covenant, and Jesus is the New Covenant.
When Jesus died and was raised again he fulfilled the Old Covenant. He did not do away with it, but instead put punishments on Himself, instead of the lambs men had to sacrifice before. In that way instead of The Law redeeming us, Jesus redeemed us.

 

[Debtfree]

Is it all for you today - Yes or no?

God bless

No!


Why? Because just because it is in the Bible doesn't mean it is the truth.

Forexample: Job said the Lord gave and the Lord took away. However, if one reads the entire book of Job, one can see that Satan is the one who took away.

God gave Job all his possessions, and then gave Him double what he had prior to the trial he experienced.

Job's statement was not true, but it is true that he did make that statement.

I know some will argue this point to no end. But, I challenge any who disagree to read the following article and then comment further.
http://www.studytheword.net/sermons/view_lesson.php?title_no=148


Debtfree
Jesus IS Lord!

 

[Georges]

About the passover, A Jewish Christian rabbi/preacher explained it like something along the lines of this- Jesus was the passover lamb, in place of putting blood on the door stop, Jesus drank with His Apostles wine in place of the blood. In eating of the bread, it was in place of eating the lamb that the Israelites ate at passover, since they could not eat Jesus' flesh. Jesus said that the bread was His Body.
It makes sense when it is described that way.

Also, The Law (The Torah) is the Old Covenant, and Jesus is the New Covenant.
When Jesus died and was raised again he fulfilled the Old Covenant. He did not do away with it, but instead put punishments on Himself, instead of the lambs men had to sacrifice before. In that way instead of The Law redeeming us, Jesus redeemed us.

Christine...some questions to ponder....

1) Where does it say (specifically) that Jesus fulfilled the Old Covenant?
2) Where is it written that God requires a human sacirifice for sin?
3) Where is it stated that God required a human sacrifice to cover the sins of anyone?
4) Was the Passover lamb a (Passover) or an (Atonement)?

Do the research in the OT regarding Atoning sacrifices....how many involve blood of anykind....

Jesus is the fulfillment of the Tanach....but that fulfillment will not be complete until the end of the Messianic Kingdom....

 

[Heidi]

About the passover, A Jewish Christian rabbi/preacher explained it like something along the lines of this- Jesus was the passover lamb, in place of putting blood on the door stop, Jesus drank with His Apostles wine in place of the blood. In eating of the bread, it was in place of eating the lamb that the Israelites ate at passover, since they could not eat Jesus' flesh. Jesus said that the bread was His Body.
It makes sense when it is described that way.

Also, The Law (The Torah) is the Old Covenant, and Jesus is the New Covenant.
When Jesus died and was raised again he fulfilled the Old Covenant. He did not do away with it, but instead put punishments on Himself, instead of the lambs men had to sacrifice before. In that way instead of The Law redeeming us, Jesus redeemed us.

Christine...some questions to ponder....

1) Where does it say (specifically) that Jesus fulfilled the Old Covenant?
2) Where is it written that God requires a human sacirifice for sin?
3) Where is it stated that God required a human sacrifice to cover the sins of anyone?
4) Was the Passover lamb a (Passover) or an (Atonement)?

Do the research in the OT regarding Atoning sacrifices....how many involve blood of anykind....

Jesus is the fulfillment of the Tanach....but that fulfillment will not be complete until the end of the Messianic Kingdom....

You need to read the bible. The Old covenant is OT law. "I have not come to abolish the law but to fulfill it."

Colossians 2:13, "He forgave us all our sins, having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it awya, nailing it to the cross.

Hebrews 8: 8-10, "The time is coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah. It will not be like the covenant I made with their forefathers when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they did not remain faithful to my covenant, and I turned awayf from them, declares the Lord. This is the covenant I will make with Israel after that time, declares the Lord. I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts."

Before Jesus came and set us the Holy Spirit, the Jews simply obeyed the "rules that are taught by men." But since Jesus came and sent the Holy Spirit to wash our hearts, the law is now written on our hearts instead of simply rules and regulations. That is the new convenant. Jesus fulfilled the law by being our unblemished lamb, our permanent sacrifice once and for all so that we now no longer have to obey the rules and regulations of the OT. Because He loved us, we can now love our neighbors. That is the new convenant written on our hearts.

"It is finished." His sacrifice is comletel. He cannot die again. All one has to do is believe that and he will be saved.