Is God Interested, in More than Just.....

[bibleberean]

Your example is not a good one to make your point.

Just as you argue, I will claim that the following statement "couldn't be clearer":

"Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat....."

How is this not clear? Based on North American language usage, this is an unambiguous declaration that being admitted to the kingdom is a direct consequence of the actions of feeding the poor, etc.

If you are going to counter-argue, you need to draw some kind of distinction and actually argue for that distinction. In other words, what is your reason to not take the above at "face value" on the one hand, and yet take at face value Jesus words from Matthew 10:28 on the other.

It's simple, I take the fact that those who are alive after the tribulation period and have done good to the Jews are going to inherit an earthly Kingdom. I don't believe this teaches salvation by works but earthly reward.

These are not resurrected dead people going to heaven but earthly flesh and blood people inheriting an earthly Kingdom.

When Jesus say's this... He is clearly referring to those who are dead....

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

I take both examples literally and in their context.

And the two topics are not related to each other.

 

[Drew]

Here is Matthew 10:28 again:

"And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."

Note: The following is bascially a rehash of something I recently posted in the "annihilation" thread.

As I have said in the past, I have "non-Biblical" reasons for being skeptical about the existence of an immaterial soul. My basic problem with the immaterial soul is the "interaction" problem - how can a non-physical soul animate a physical body? How can something utterly non-physical "cross over" into the physical domain and act causally? The whole idea seems incoherent (and I believe this is why the whole idea of an immaterial soul has fallen into some disrepute in philosophical academia).

So I am leaning towards thinking of the soul as "phenomena" rather than a "thing". When brains operate, the manifold of conscious experiences that result is the soul. This is not to take a position that "its over when we die". Very loosely, God "stores" knowledge of our physical state and re-constitutes us physically at the time of the general resurrection. In short, there is no soul without a body (in my opinion).

But getting back to some of the Biblical stuff:

Matt 10:28 seems to draw a very strong distinction between soul and body. A supporter of the "immaterial soul" argument may well say that this text clearly shows how a soul can live in the absence of a living body. However, I submit the following possibility for consideration: a human can kill another human but not ultimately kill their soul, even though the soul is (on my view) "phenomenology" of the physical.

Here is how this could work: When A is killed by B, A's soul disappears (on my understanding that soul is "phenomenology" of the physical). However, God somehow has stored knowledge of A's body and is eventually able to reconstitute him physically - and his soul then reappears. So B can can "kill the body but not the soul" as per the verse. On the other hand, God can effectively kill both by electing not to reconstitute A at the time of resurrection, effectively annihilating him.

My assertion is, therefore, that Matt 10:28 can be consistent with both a "no immaterial soul separate from the body" position.

How, specifically, is such an interpretation ruled out?

 

[Samos]

"Heaven and earth shall pass away, etc" was merely intended to express than that these two will cease to exist as separate states.

Yes, of course! And then there can be heaven on earth. Thanks for explaining this. :angel:

 

[DivineNames]

To the point where, God has told us what to eat, and not to eat.

Some people think, that that is taking God's truths just a little to far, by telling us what we can eat and not eat.

So...the question becomes....Does God have the right, to tell us such things at that ?

Did God really tell people what to eat? I thought that he made an agreement with a certain people to keep a certain law in exchange for him (God) keeping certain promises??

 

[DivineNames]

My basic problem with the immaterial soul is the "interaction" problem - how can a non-physical soul animate a physical body? How can something utterly non-physical "cross over" into the physical domain and act causally?

Would God have the same problem?

 

[Drew]

My basic problem with the immaterial soul is the "interaction" problem - how can a non-physical soul animate a physical body? How can something utterly non-physical "cross over" into the physical domain and act causally?

Would God have the same problem?

Ya got me! :-D .

I was aware of this very problem as I formulated my ideas, and it is indeed a challenge to my view. I think that a little focussed thinking would cause anyone to realize that any worldview is going to have some "magic" in it. I tend to favour explanations that minimize having to accept seemingly impossible things (like the non-physical affecting the physical). However, the issue of a non-physical God acting in the world is indeed a challenge to my position.

Back to the drawing board!

 

[Lonelyguide]

"Heaven and earth shall pass away, etc" was merely intended to express that these two will cease to exist as separate states.

Yes, of course! And then there can be heaven on earth. Thanks for explaining this. :angel:

Precisely!

So now you also understand why Jesus promised that "the meek will inherit the earth."

:fadein:

 

[Geo]

Let's view the Complete creation of Spirit and Soul and Body

And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly;
and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body
be preserved blameless unto the coming of our
Lord Jesus Christ. (1 Thess. 5.23)

In the history of man’s creation we read, ‘The Lord God formed man
of the dust of the ground’—thus was his body made—‘and breathed
into his nostrils the breath’ or spirit ‘of life’: thus his spirit came from God;
‘and man became a living soul.’ The spirit quickening the body made man
a living soul, a living person with the consciousness of himself. The soul
was the meeting-place, the point of union between body and spirit.
Through the body, man, the living soul, stood related to the external
world of sense; could influence it, or be influenced by it.

Through the spirit he stood related to the spiritual world and the
Spirit of God, whence he had his origin; could be the recipient and the
minister of its life and power. Standing thus midway between two worlds,
belonging to both, the soul had the power of determining itself, of
choosing or refusing the objects by which it was surrounded, and to
which it stood related. In the constitution of these three parts of man’s
nature, the spirit, as linking him with the Divine, was the highest;
the body, connecting him with the sensible and animal, the lowest;
intermediate stood the soul, partaker of the nature of the others,
the bond that united them and through which they could act on each other.

Its work, as the central power, was to maintain them in their due relation;
to keep the body, as the lowest, in subjection to the spirit; itself to receive
through the spirit, as the higher, from the Divine Spirit what was waiting it
for its perfection: and so to pass down, even to the body, that by which it
might be partaker of the Spirit’s perfection and become a spiritual body.

[Andrew Murray, The Spirit of Christ.]