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Is God the Cause of sin and evil in the world ?

S

savedbygrace57

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The answer to the question is absolutely Yes ! All things are made or created for God's good pleasure Rev 4:11

11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

If we believe in the True and Living God, then we ought know He is the First Cause of all causes.

He created the devil for His Pleasure and ordained his activities, He created Adam for His pleasure and ordained his activities and the subsequent consequences.

From the time God said this Gen 1:1-3

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

It put into effect this Eph 1:11


In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

If we do not believe this, rest in this, and we do debate it, reject it, we are no better off than an athiest ! We are as David wrote Ps 14:1

The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Hello SavedByGrace57.

I was reading your thread and wondering how you
arrived at your proposition. This is what you stated;

"He created the devil for His Pleasure and ordained his activities, He created Adam for His pleasure and ordained his activities and the subsequent consequences."

I am aware of only one verse in the OT that you could
employ to deduce this most remarkable opinion.
 
Your argument that God created Satan is actually misleading. God created Lucifer whose role was as an Arch Angel in God's kingdom. Satan decided he no longer needed God and chose to be Lord of his own life. God would not allow evil in His kingdom and expelled Lucifer who He now called Satan.

So did God create evil? The answer is both yes and no. Yes because He allowed His creations the privilege of free will and the ability to choose which allowed Lucifer to choose self-determination outside God thus evil was created because pride leads to self-interest and self interest puts you ahead of others even at the expense of good.

The No answer is because God's character is perfect and without sin and thus without evil.


So God created the possibility of evil (allowing its consequences) so that He would have a creation (us) that would choose Him not because of who He(ie The all powerful God) was but because they recognized and acknowledged that His grace and mercy were towards His creation, that He was faithful in all areas and His word was always true. The response to this was and is love and acceptance of His Lordship because they acknowledge that this is what they both needed and wanted.

John O
 
John O said:
Your argument that God created Satan is actually misleading. God created Lucifer whose role was as an Arch Angel in God's kingdom. Satan decided he no longer needed God and chose to be Lord of his own life. God would not allow evil in His kingdom and expelled Lucifer who He now called Satan.

So did God create evil? The answer is both yes and no. Yes because He allowed His creations the privilege of free will and the ability to choose which allowed Lucifer to choose self-determination outside God thus evil was created because pride leads to self-interest and self interest puts you ahead of others even at the expense of good.

The No answer is because God's character is perfect and without sin and thus without evil.


So God created the possibility of evil (allowing its consequences) so that He would have a creation (us) that would choose Him not because of who He(ie The all powerful God) was but because they recognized and acknowledged that His grace and mercy were towards His creation, that He was faithful in all areas and His word was always true. The response to this was and is love and acceptance of His Lordship because they acknowledge that this is what they both needed and wanted.

John O
Click to expand...

Very well said as I see it also. Lucifer was created perfect. And will be destroyed with the other ministering 'evil' spirits. But that did not need to happen.
 
This world was Created for the Purpose of the Cross, that the lamb slain from the foundation would be actually slain in time by hands of wicked men Acts 2:23

23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

God purposed sin and wickedness to fulfill the purpose for which this world was Created,The Cross of Christ !
 
savedbygrace57 said:
This world was Created for the Purpose of the Cross, that the lamb slain from the foundation would be actually slain in time by hands of wicked men Acts 2:23

23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

God purposed sin and wickedness to fulfill the purpose for which this world was Created,The Cross of Christ !
Click to expand...


God did not purpose sin and wickedness, before the world began God planned that Christ would die for the sins of man-kind. God did not cause the Jews to murder Christ else God is the one Who committed murder with wicked hands. God foreknew that if the Jews had the opportunity, they of their own will would choose to murder the Messiah. God simply used their free will choices to accomplish His own will, God did not cause anyone to do things violating their free will.
 
23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

This verse does not imply that God creates evil savedbyGrace.

Jesus Christ was predestined from eternity to reconcile us.

God is Holy, Holy, Holy, repetition forces the understanding
that no darkness dwells within God.

Mankind was not created in an evil state, man chose disobedience.
 
savedbygrace57 said:
This world was Created for the Purpose of the Cross, that the lamb slain from the foundation would be actually slain in time by hands of wicked men Acts 2:23

23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

God purposed sin and wickedness to fulfill the purpose for which this world was Created,The Cross of Christ !
Click to expand...

You have not quite grasped the just how great our God is (not that the wisest of us could fully understand Him). God's characteristics include that He is Omnipotent (all powerful), Omniscient (all knowing), Omnipresent (all present not limited by space or time).

These characteristics help us to understand that He knows the beginning from the end and that nothing is a surprise to Him. God created Lucifer knowing that He would lead a rebellion against Him, He created Adam knowing that He would choose self over Him, He knew that a penalty for that sin must be paid and He chose to be that sacrificial lamb. Why do this? Because God was looking for a family of sons and daughters to share His life with. It brought Him pleasure to see the family He will have to live eternity with Him.
 
bass

God did not purpose sin and wickedness
Click to expand...


Yes He did, how could He had Purposed Christ to be slain before the foundation if He did not ? He purposed that He be slained by wicked hands Rev 13:8

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the Book of Life of the Lamb, slain from the foundation of the world.

Acts 2:23

23 Him, being delivered by the determinate will and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken and by wicked hands have crucified and slain.
 
savedbygrace57 said:
bass




Yes He did, how could He had Purposed Christ to be slain before the foundation if He did not ? He purposed that He be slained by wicked hands Rev 13:8

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the Book of Life of the Lamb, slain from the foundation of the world.

Acts 2:23

23 Him, being delivered by the determinate will and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken and by wicked hands have crucified and slain.
Click to expand...


See my previous reply. I wonder what your attitude to God is as it appears from your replies and posts that "its all God's fault" which takes a wat from us the creation any responsibility and puts it all back on the creator.

So if it is all God's fault why did He create us? I struggle with your logic on this topic.

John O
 
So if it is all God's fault
Click to expand...

Ain't no faults, God's Glorious Purpose is being fulfilled from A to Z ! Everything God wanted to happen has happened, what God did not want to happen did not happen !
 
savedbygrace57 said:
Ain't no faults, God's Glorious Purpose is being fulfilled from A to Z ! Everything God wanted to happen has happened, what God did not want to happen did not happen !
Click to expand...

So if I understand what you are saying, you are saying that everything that happens is because God wants it to happen?

John O
 
This looks like hyper calvinism.

God has preordained all sinful events from before
creation. God has selected some to be saved
the rest burn for eternity.

I am a robot under complete control of my
master, I have no will.

I am not responsible for my sin it is God doing it to
me for His glory.

I may only turn to Christ if it is God's will.

No one can know if they are saved until
judgement day. Now that is reassuring
I must say.

God is sovereign, even the devil does God's
bidding.

Beep, beep, beep.
 
rainbows said:
This looks like hyper calvinism.

God has preordained all sinful events from before
creation. God has selected some to be saved
the rest burn for eternity.

I am a robot under complete control of my
master, I have no will.

I am not responsible for my sin it is God doing it to
me for His glory.

I may only turn to Christ if it is God's will.

No one can know if they are saved until
judgement day. Now that is reassuring
I must say.

God is sovereign, even the devil does God's
bidding.

Beep, beep, beep.
Click to expand...


It is important that we look at the critical issue of salvation for the lost rather than being caught up in the faith/works debate. I do not have the ability to make a person think in a particular way unless under duress. For hundreds of years people have drawn a line in the sand and stood on one side or the other of it.

The debate draws us a way from the important things of life being the redemption of a lost people destined to separation from God unless they hear the gospel and make a decision to repent.

John O
 
In a way the OP is correct. According to Isaiah 45:7 all things come from God, including evil.

I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the Lord, do all these things.

God didn't create sin, mankind did through the rebellion originating with Adam and Eve. Genesis 3:1-7 clearly shows that sin was caused by Adam and Eve. Now a certain viewpoint can present an argument that God knew they would sin against Him and they would be correct. However, God saw both outcomes of that interaction with Adam and Eve maintaining the Lord's command against eating the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, including the Tree of Life if they had done that. He knew this the moment He acted to create everything.
 
God did not create man with an evil disposition.

God said that His creation was good.

Man became evil in disobedience to God.

Just because Christ was predestined to die for us
does not in any way imply God creates evil.
God knows the outcome of all events, God knew
in love what needed to be done.

God sacrificed His son to redeem the fallen images.

Isaiah 45: The One forming light and creating darkness,Causing well-being and creating calamity;
I am the Lord who does all these.

Isaiah says God creates light and darkness, not evil.
God is the source of life, love and peace, God is not the
author of evil. Yes, God does create calamity when He
judges mans wicked behavior.

The following verse is proof that God does not cause people to sin.

Jeremiah 19:5
and have built the high places of Baal to burn their sons in the fire as burnt offerings to Baal, a thing which I never commanded or spoke of, nor did it ever enter My mind;

You would notice that the sin committed was not in God's thoughts.
So how is it possible for man to commit this dreadful crime
when it is outside the thoughts of God?

Burning children is a dark, sinister, out working of fallen natures.

If you want God to be the author of evil you had better
quote the verses that prove this!
 
savedbygrace57 said:
This world was Created for the Purpose of the Cross, that the lamb slain from the foundation would be actually slain in time by hands of wicked men Acts 2:23

23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

God purposed sin and wickedness to fulfill the purpose for which this world was Created,The Cross of Christ !
Click to expand...

I find that Heb. 13:20 had Eternally the [PLAN] when needed to come on board. They.. the Godhead knew what Freedom/of /Will would in time cost. Lucufer is an example for that.
[20] Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the [[everlasting covenant]],

Yet freedom in allowing any of their creation to sin is no where close to 'causing' one to sin! This should actually let one understand how Freedom of Choice is the REQUIREMENT that God has got to have. Love has got to be the MOTIVE for Salvation!

And one more truth is found in Isa. 42
[21] The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.

This is exactly what Christ did. He lived out the required law perfectly as the second Adam could have. Proving that the Godhead were in NO WAY the cause of sin!
If fact Christ came after mankind were around 2000 years into the sin decayed of mankinds body & still KEPT HIS ETERNAL requirements [[Perfectly!]]

And yes, He came also to save some from their depraved self if they would adhere toTheir CONDITIONAL PLAN. Acts 5:32

--Elijah
 
rainbows said:
God did not create man with an evil disposition.

God said that His creation was good.

Man became evil in disobedience to God.

Just because Christ was predestined to die for us
does not in any way imply God creates evil.
God knows the outcome of all events, God knew
in love what needed to be done.

God sacrificed His son to redeem the fallen images.

Isaiah 45: The One forming light and creating darkness,Causing well-being and creating calamity;
I am the Lord who does all these.

Isaiah says God creates light and darkness, not evil.
God is the source of life, love and peace, God is not the
author of evil. Yes, God does create calamity when He
judges mans wicked behavior.

The following verse is proof that God does not cause people to sin.

Jeremiah 19:5
and have built the high places of Baal to burn their sons in the fire as burnt offerings to Baal, a thing which I never commanded or spoke of, nor did it ever enter My mind;

You would notice that the sin committed was not in God's thoughts.
So how is it possible for man to commit this dreadful crime
when it is outside the thoughts of God?

Burning children is a dark, sinister, out working of fallen natures.

If you want God to be the author of evil you had better
quote the verses that prove this!
Click to expand...

Except you're ignoring the book of Job. In the book of Job, Satan needed the Lord's permission to do the things to Job in order to prove Job's righteousness. Job had lived a righteous life, so calamity is not just in God's judgment. All things that happen must happen with God's approval of it. This is why when Jesus and the apostles taught about this very subject they all said that the Lord will not give more troubles and trials then what you can bear.
 
rain

God did not create man with an evil disposition.
Click to expand...

Yes He did. If He did'nt why did eve yield to the lust of the flesh ?
 
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