Is God the Cause of sin and evil in the world ?

[Ernest T. Bass]

bass




Yes He did, how could He had Purposed Christ to be slain before the foundation if He did not ? He purposed that He be slained by wicked hands Rev 13:8

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the Book of Life of the Lamb, slain from the foundation of the world.

Acts 2:23

23 Him, being delivered by the determinate will and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken and by wicked hands have crucified and slain.

What you are misimplying about God goes completely against His perfect holy and righteous nature. You are in essence trying to make God a sinner, God murdered with His own wicked hands. All Acts 2:23 tells us is that God predetemined and foreknew that Christ would die for the sins of mankind. It does not say God caused the Jews to murder the Messiah against their will. God has foreknowledge so He foreknows what choices people will make and He used the free will choice of the Jews that He foreknew they would make (as He used Judas's free will choice to betray Christ) to accomplish His own will. It is a serious offence to accuse God of committing sin.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

In a way the OP is correct. According to Isaiah 45:7 all things come from God, including evil.

I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the Lord, do all these things.

God didn't create sin, mankind did through the rebellion originating with Adam and Eve. Genesis 3:1-7 clearly shows that sin was caused by Adam and Eve. Now a certain viewpoint can present an argument that God knew they would sin against Him and they would be correct. However, God saw both outcomes of that interaction with Adam and Eve maintaining the Lord's command against eating the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, including the Tree of Life if they had done that. He knew this the moment He acted to create everything.

Above you posted: (my emp)

In a way the OP is correct. According to Isaiah 45:7 all things come from God, including evil.

I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the Lord, do all these things.

God did not create the evil, moral wickedness as the OP may think.


__________________________________________________________________________________________________

Does God "Create" Evil?

by Wayne Jackson, M.A.

[[SIZE=-1]NOTE:[/SIZE] During the February 12, 2009 Darwin Day debate with Kyle Butt, Dan Barker listed 14 alleged Bible discrepancies as evidence against God’s existence. He insisted (seven minutes and 25 seconds into his opening speech) that the Bible gives contradictory descriptions of God’s being good, yet creating evil. His allegation is refuted in the following article written by Wayne Jackson in 1982.]
​

[SIZE=+2]Q.[/SIZE]

The text of Isaiah 45:7 seems to indicate that God “creates evil.” Is this correct?
A.
In Isaiah 45:7, the prophet wrote of God: “I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil; I am Jehovah, that doeth all these things.” On occasion, unbelievers appeal to this verse in an attempt to involve the Bible in a moral difficulty, since the text seems to suggest that God “created” evil. How should a Christian respond to such a charge?

First of all, the verse can have no reference to moral evil (wickedness) for such is opposed to the infinitely holy nature of God (Isaiah 6:3). Jehovah is a “God of faithfulness and without iniquity”(Deuteronomy 32:4). He is “not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness” (Psalm 5:4). Nor can it be supposed that this verse has to do with Jehovah’s original creation, for at the termination of the creation week, the Lord saw “everything that he had made, and, behold, it was very good” (Genesis 1:31).

The context of Isaiah 45:7, along with several passages of similar import, reveals the truth of the matter. Jehovah—through the prophet Isaiah—prophetically announced to King Cyrus of Persia (a century-and-a-half before the monarch’s birth!) His intention of using this pagan king as an instrument of His holy will. Within Isaiah 45:1-7 is a majestic affirmation of the universal sovereignty of the Almighty God; indeed, there is none like Him (vs. 5). He thus affirms: “I form light, and create darkness [i.e., control nature]; I make peace, and create evil [i.e., exercise control over the nations]; I am Jehovah that doeth all these things.”

Notice how the word “evil” is used in obvious contrast to “peace.” Isaiah simply was stating that Jehovah has the power to cause peaceful conditions to exist, or to bring about evil (i.e., destruction). Consider another verse. God warned the Israelites that if they made an alliance with Egypt, He would bring evil upon them [i.e., punishment (cf. Isaiah 31:1-2)]. Again, in describing the coming judgment upon ancient Babylon, the prophet declared: “Therefore shall evil come upon thee; thou shall not know the dawning thereof and mischief shall fall upon thee; thou shalt not be able to put it away; and desolation shall come upon thee suddenly, which thou knoweth not” (Isaiah 47:11). Thus, the evil that God sent was a desolation—a desolation due on account of their wickedness!

Scholars have observed that “evil” can be used with a purely secular meaning to denote physical injury (Jeremiah 39:12), or times of distress (Amos 6:3)—which is its significance in Isaiah 45:7 (see Harris, et al., 1980, 2:855).

REFERENCES​

Harris, R.L. G.L. Archer, and B.K. Waltke, (1980), Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament (Chicago, IL: Moody).

http://www.apologeticspress.com/APContent.aspx?category=11&article=1157

Publisher: Apologetics Press

 

[savedbygrace57]

called

God didn't create sin, mankind did

Well who created mankind ?

 

[savedbygrace57]

What you are misimplying about God goes completely against His perfect holy and righteous nature. You are in essence trying to make God a sinner, God murdered with His own wicked hands. All Acts 2:23 tells us is that God predetemined and foreknew that Christ would die for the sins of mankind. It does not say God caused the Jews to murder the Messiah against their will. God has foreknowledge so He foreknows what choices people will make and He used the free will choice of the Jews that He foreknew they would make (as He used Judas's free will choice to betray Christ) to accomplish His own will. It is a serious offence to accuse God of committing sin.

This world was Created for the Death of Christ, a Redemptive Purpose !

 

[savedbygrace57]

The reason why people do not believe that God caused sin and evil in His World is because they do not understand God's Eternal Purpose in Christ Jesus ! Eph 3:11

11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

This Purpose is Redemptive ! Redemptive from sin. So everything God created, must serve towards that Purpose, yes even Adam and Eve !

What do you think, that God created this world for a Redemptive Purpose and then after creating Adam hoped Adam would not sin so the Redemptive Purpose from sin would not be needed ?

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

This world was Created for the Death of Christ, a Redemptive Purpose !

What God created was good, Gen 1:31. It was man that chose to abuse his free will gift by choosing to sin, so man is from where moral evil came. God is not responsible for the choice Adam and Eve made. God also has foreknowledge and did not have to guess if Adam would ever sin or not. If God foreknew that man of his own free will would choose to sin, then God would also foreknow that man would need a Saviour to save him from that sin Acts 2:23.

 

[savedbygrace57]

et

What God created was good, Gen 1:31

Of course it was, it was just right for His Redemptive Purpose in Christ Jesus Eph 3:11

11According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

Do you know what redemption means ?

 

[savedbygrace57]

The Wicked for the Day of Evil !

Prov 16:4

4 The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

Before the World was made, God in and for His Eternal Purpose in Christ Eph 3:11, God purposed to make the Wicked for the day of evil !

Now why does scripture Say God made the wicked for this day of evil if He did not want a Day of Evil or wicked people for it ? Could not God had made it like it;s going to be, a sinless World, a Sinless people in the New Heavens and New Earth were Righteousness will reign 2 Pet 3:13

13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Or will man in the New Heaven and Earth have yet his freewill to sin and cause evil and death into it also ?

But for the simple fact that God did make the wicked for the day of evil, is proof enough for any reasonable soul that God did purpose and cause sin into His World for the preordained day of evil !

 

[Elijah674]

The Wicked for the Day of Evil !

Prov 16:4

4 The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

Before the World was made, God in and for His Eternal Purpose in Christ Eph 3:11, God purposed to make the Wicked for the day of evil !

Now why does scripture Say God made the wicked for this day of evil if He did not want a Day of Evil or wicked people for it ? Could not God had made it like it;s going to be, a sinless World, a Sinless people in the New Heavens and New Earth were Righteousness will reign 2 Pet 3:13

13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Or will man in the New Heaven and Earth have yet his freewill to sin and cause evil and death into it also ?

But for the simple fact that God did make the wicked for the day of evil, is proof enough for any reasonable soul that God did purpose and cause sin into His World for the preordained day of evil !

_________

That is your take?? Then if so? here is how I see it, anyone with this 'teaching' has never known God in the first place, & will just flat out not be there! Nah. 1:9, Obad. 1:16, Eze. 18:32, Eze. 33:18-19, Josh. 24:15, & just one more of a Bible fully scattered with others, as seen in Deut. 30:19

Deut. 30
[11] For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off.
[12] It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, [[and do it?]]
[13] Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
[14] But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou [[mayest]] do it.

[15] See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;
[16] In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it.
[17] But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them;
[18] I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it.

[19] I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: [[[therefore choose]]] life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
[20] That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.

It is always hard work which is against a Christian's nature (mine) to say that a person is clearly found in Acts 9:5-6 fighting against Christ as was Saul. (Paul) Even to the point of... 'breathing out threatenings and slaughter..' (ibid 1) but at present, your posting [[that 'God is the CAUSE OF SIN' comes on as satans work]].

The killings are just thefirst death, your many false teachings are the cause of the second Eternal death for many! And this one thread supersed's them all! A God of HATE!

--Elijah

Acts 9
[3] And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:
[4] And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
[5] And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
[6] And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.

 

[savedbygrace57]

Prepared from the foundation !


Matt 25:34

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

The Kingdom prepared for the redeemed, the elect of God, the Church and Bride of Christ from the foundation of the world or before, this truth should give any with spiritual understanding to know that God created Adam to sin and to bring into fruition the Eternal Redemptive Purpose of Christ Jesus Our Lord Eph 3:11- For this Kingdom was never intended to be for for men and women of flesh and blood, but for them born again of the Spirit. Does not scripture teach that flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God ? 1 Cor 15:50

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

Yes, even Adam in his state of innocence was corruptible and needed to be born again !

Folks God is immutable, for God had ordained before the world was created and began, that His Elect created naturally in Adam, were not fit for nor would enter the Kingdom of God by flesh and blood. God made us meet through New Birth for the Kingdom of God Col 1:12-14

12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:

13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

God designed that being made fit for the Kingdom would be through Redemption by Christ's Blood.

It was through this means God would bring them to this Inheritance Matt 25:41

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

This is the same inheritance of Col 1:12 and the same one of 1 Pet 1:3-4

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

And this was through being begotten again by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the Dead ! This was all an Eternal Purpose, of which Adam must sin according to this Purpose of Christ ! Now if this is not something we see in scripture, then we are blind to the Truth !

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

et



Of course it was, it was just right for His Redemptive Purpose in Christ Jesus Eph 3:11

11According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

Do you know what redemption means ?

Do you realize that Eph 3:11 does not say God is the cause of moral wickedness and that you, not the bible, is trying to make God out to be a wicked sinner?

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

The Wicked for the Day of Evil !

Prov 16:4

4 The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

Before the World was made, God in and for His Eternal Purpose in Christ Eph 3:11, God purposed to make the Wicked for the day of evil !

Now why does scripture Say God made the wicked for this day of evil if He did not want a Day of Evil or wicked people for it ? Could not God had made it like it;s going to be, a sinless World, a Sinless people in the New Heavens and New Earth were Righteousness will reign 2 Pet 3:13

13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Or will man in the New Heaven and Earth have yet his freewill to sin and cause evil and death into it also ?

But for the simple fact that God did make the wicked for the day of evil, is proof enough for any reasonable soul that God did purpose and cause sin into His World for the preordained day of evil !

Prov 16:4 does not mean God created certain men wicked, for if He did then God is the author of sin.


Adam Clarke said of Prov 16:4:

Even the wicked for the day of evil.

vegam rasha leyom raah. The whole verse is translated by the Chaldee thus: "All the works of the LORD are for those who obey him; and the wicked is reserved for the evil day."


As raah literally signifies to feed, it has been conjectured that the clause might be read, yea, even the wicked he feeds by the day, or daily.
If we take the words as they stand in our present version, they mean no more than what is expressed by the Chaldee and Syriac: and as far as we can learn from their present confused state, by the Septuagint and Arabic, that "the wicked are reserved for the day of punishment." Coverdale has given, as he generally does, a good sense: "The Lorde doth all thinges for his owne sake; yea, and when he kepeth the ungodly for the daye of wrath." He does not make the wicked or ungodly man; but when man has made himself such, even then God bears with him. But if he repent not, when the measure of his iniquity is filled up, he shall fall under the wrath of God his Maker."






http://evidentialfaith.blogspot.com/2008/05/does-proverbs-164-teach-that-god-made.html

Proverbs 16:3-5 NKJV, (3) Commit your works to the LORD, And your thoughts will be established. (4) The LORD has made all for Himself, Yes, even the wicked for the day of doom. (5) Everyone proud in heart is an abomination to the LORD; Though they join forces,[1] none will go unpunished."
​

Some people have noted this proverb and suggest that God created evil, and certain people for evil as well. Notice that the tenor here seems to be that we should "commit" our works to the Lord, even the wicked will be punished, and that a "proud heart is an abomination" and that all these will not go unpunished.


The Hebrew people had a very unique and majestic style of writing. Verse four, the verse in question, is actually a an example of synthetic parallelism. This is when one line of text affirms a truth, and the subsequent line expands on it with a specific application. In this case, about the wicked, whatever disaster comes their way is an appropriate correspondent for their life.

This proverb means that God has an end, object, or purpose for everything. There is a result for every cause, a reward or punishment for every act. He has ordained a day of trouble or evil for the wicked, just as He has prepared heaven for those who love Him. The Today's English Version renders verse four:

“Everything the Lord has made has its destiny; and the destiny of the wicked man is destruction” (Proverbs 16:4 TEV).
​

Though this may be difficult to understand and accept, punishment for the unrepentant is in keeping with God’s justice.The UBS Handbook Series suggests this as an alternate reading:

"The Lord has decided how everything he created should be, and he has decided the wicked should be destroyed." (Reyburn, W. D., & Fry, E. M. (2000). A handbook on Proverbs. UBS handbook series; Helps for translators (348). New York: United Bible Societies.)
​

This doesn't necessarily mean that God created the "wicked" in that state. It means that the wicked have an end--punishment. Even the wicked are subservient to His eternal purposes. They are destined to experience the day of wrath and receive their well-merited punishment.

 

[savedbygrace57]

Do you realize that Eph 3:11 does not say God is the cause of moral wickedness and that you, not the bible, is trying to make God out to be a wicked sinner?

God Created this World for a Redemptive Purpose in Christ Jesus Eph 3:11

[edited]

 

[rainbows]

Redemption in your view would be a paradox.

Redeemed from the will of God??

I have trouble understanding the lines of logic in Calvinism.

Jesus Christ was predestined to die for our sin.

Because Jesus Christ was predestined then God must have
created man with an evil disposition.

God will judge sin and God could not hold anyone accountable
if God was the author?

How do hyper Calvinists explain why God would judge anyone?

 

[Elijah674]

Re: Is God the Cause of sin and evil in the world ?

Prov 16:4 does not mean God created certain men wicked,
______________________________________________

Oh yes it does !

After reading this post, you make a good case for yourself.
​

 

[rainbows]

Because Jesus Christ was predestined then God must have
created man with an evil disposition.

God will judge sin and God could not hold anyone accountable
if God was the author?

How do hyper Calvinists explain why God would judge anyone?

Redeemed from what? It was all God's will, we cannot be held
responsible.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Oh yes it does !

So homosexuals, according to you, would be right in saying God made them that way. James says God does not tempt man but man of his own lust is enticed, yet you have God temptimg man with sin by making them wicked, then God will punish them for the way He made them to be. You have created a god who is unloving, unmerciful, ungraceful and a sinner himself.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Redemption in your view would be a paradox.

Redeemed from the will of God??

I have trouble understanding the lines of logic in Calvinism.

Jesus Christ was predestined to die for our sin.

Because Jesus Christ was predestined then God must have
created man with an evil disposition.

God will judge sin and God could not hold anyone accountable
if God was the author?

How do hyper Calvinists explain why God would judge anyone?

Apparently savedbygrace57 thinks since God predetermined Christ would die for man's sins God had to create evil men to insure there would be sinners for Christ to die for. Yet Calvinism says those that God created sinners were the ones not chosen before the world began to be saved, so even if Christ died for them, it was already predetermined they would not be saved anyway. Mixed up mess indeed.

 

[Elijah674]

So homosexuals, according to you, would be right in saying God made them that way. James says God does not tempt man but man of his own lust is enticed, yet you have God temptimg man with sin by making them wicked, then God will punish them for the way He made them to be. You have created a god who is unloving, unmerciful, ungraceful and a sinner himself.

+ a 'g'od that does not exist!

 

[dadof10]

You do not understand that God created this world for a Redemptive Purpose ! Do you know what the bible teaches about redemption ? Redemption from what ?

Redemption from sin. Where you are mistaken is buying into Calvinism's double predestination. We are definitely predestined by God for heaven, but due to our free will, we can choose the path that leads to hell. I'd you will look at the verses of Scripture that mention predestination closely, you'll find they don't teach negative predestination, only positive. We are redeemed because we choose sin.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2