Bible Study Is hell eternal torment or just the end of existance?

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I believe that it refers to the death of death, the end of Hades, the end of sinful men. There will be no more sinners when the second death does its work, leading to the eventual restoration of all who have been lost. God bless.
 
What I have to say on this topic may go beyond the scope of posting on this thread. If anyone wants to know more biblical proof that the traditional view of hell and the immortality of the soul is false, send me a message and we can dialogue.

The Bible does not support going to a fiery hell at death. This has occurred because of the mistranslation of the English word "hell" to represent 3 different hells in the Bible. The belief that when a wicked person dies, his "soul" goes to hell and he burns for eternity is a midieval amalgamation of three different hells into one hell. There are four words used in the scriptures which are wrongly translated " hell". They are Sheol, Hades, Gehenna and Tartarus.

Sheol - All OT texts in the scriptures use the word Sheol where we see hell. Sheol is translated the 'pit' or grave. ALL people went to Sheol whether good or bad.

a. The Nature of Sheol
The OT which uses only Sheol for our translation "hell", shows that there is no consciousness in Sheol. In Sheol there is no consciousness (Ecclesiastes 9:5,6). When one dies, both body and soul (life) dies and awaits resurrection.

“Whatsoever they hand findeth to do, do it with all thy might; for there is not work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom in hell (Sheol) wither thou goest†- Ecclesiastes 9:10

“For the living know that they shall die, but the dead know not any thing. Neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion forever in anything that is done under the sun†- Ecclesiastes 9:5.6

“So man lieth down and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep....Oh that thou would hide me in Sheol (the grave)...If a man die, shall he live again? All the days of my appointed time will I wait till my change come†- Job 14:12, 13a, 14 (see also 1 Corinthians 15:51-56 for the NT reference of this event)

“The dead praise not the Lord, nor any that go down into silence†- Psalms 115:17

Notice that going to hell when man dies applies to both the righteous and the wicked. To all man. This cannot mean the burning hell that everyone thinks.

Hades The only Greek word that could convey the meaning of Sheol in the Greek was Hades. It is used in 11 places in the NT and conveys again the same meaning as Sheol. Sheol is the Hebrew word for the "abode of the dead", and Hades is it's Greek equivalent. These words mean "the grave".
In only one place in the scripture does it seem otherwise (in the parable of the Rich man and Lazarus in Luke 16 which will be looked at later). Many see the texts using Hades and interpret it as a fiery torment because there is only one word used to translate Hades: hell. Some texts that use Hades are Matthew 10:28, Luke 10:15, Acts 2:31 (which by quoting an OT passage directly links Hades and Sheol as the same thing).

Gehenna – Comes from the name of the burning pit outside of Jerusalem, the Valley of Hinnom, where bodies were burned. This was a place of absolute abhorrence and destruction to the Jews. Imagery such as "the worm dieth not†and the “fire is not quenched" came from the descriptions of the Valley of Hinnom. This was used by Christ many times in the NT to show the similarities of Gehenna at the end of time to what the disciples were familiar with in their time. He used this analogy to show the horror and nastiness of it all and that the end fires were a place of total destruction, not eternal torment. The texts that use Gehenna are from where most people get the idea of fiery torment from. However, Gehenna is NOT the same as Hades. You cannot take both words and amalgamate them into one meaning, which has been done with the English ‘hell’. These texts are used to describe the punishment AT THE END OF TIME not at death. Many have taken Hades and Gehenna to be the same thing i.e. When you die you go to hell (Hades) and burn forever in hell (Gehenna).
At death one goes to Hades (the grave), at the end of time, one receives Gehenna (eternal fire). (See Matthew 13:40-42, and Revelation 20:9,10 to see when one receives Gehenna).

Tatarus - Used only once in the Bible to show the realm of the demons beyond our dimension.

2 Peter 2:4 - For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell (Tatarus), and delivered them into chains of darkness to be reserved unto judgment

There is reference to this place in Jude 6

And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, He hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgement of the great day.

The demons and Satan are not in a fiery pit, nor are they torturing sinners. Most likely, this place of “darkness they are chained to†is metaphorical for their banishment to this earth, but in a dimension that we cannot see (Tartarus). The Bible says that "Satan is a roaring lion roaming the earth, seeking whom he may devour". He is not underground in some fiery hell. His doom is met at the end of time as well. (See Revelation 20:9.10)
You see how the medieval concept and today’s concept of hell came about? The word 'hell' mushes them all together but they are not the same. Now we have this:

“When a sinner dies, he goes to hell. In hell he is tormented forever by Satan and his demons who are in hell.â€Â

Now substitute it with the real words and see if it makes sense:

When a sinner dies, he goes to Hades. In Gehenna he is tormented forever by Satan and his demons who are in Tatarus.

It doesn't make sense because they are totally unrelated. Here is how it should read:

When sinners die, they go to Hades or the grave where they are unconscious until the end where they will be resurrected and experience gehenna which will totally annihilate them. The demons who are residing in another dimension called Tatarus, will be cast into gehenna as well.

Any Christian who tries to hang on to the old belief of dying and experiencing burning fire at the hands of demons is fooling themselves and mocking the loving character of God.

Many Christians believe that the wicked will burn in hell for all eternity. some even believe that God and the saved watch with delight at the suffering! What damage this false belief has caused in turning people into atheists!
 
"Many Christians believe that the wicked will burn in hell for all eternity."

The bible declares that there will be everlasting punishment. It talks about this in the book of Matt 25:32-46 2Thes 1:8-9

"What damage this false belief has caused in turning people into atheists!"

The fact is that by nature all mankind is in unbelief. How can we make someone not believe when they are in unbelief already by nature and we sure cannot make someone a believer, that is God's work to convert someone to be a believer.

Romans 11:30-32 explains that God saves us when we are in unbelief(because we are dead in sins, spiritually speaking)
 
Hi guibox,

A good post! I agree with you. I believed and taught eternal torture for the first 16 years of my walk. But the very first time I sat and studied the annihilation scriptures my eyes were opened. That has been about 14 years ago.

It is the right balance of the wrath and yet the justice of God. The only thing I question is when you said:


quote:

Some texts that use Hades are Matthew 10:28, Luke 10:15, Acts 2:31 (which by quoting an OT passage directly links Hades and Sheol as the same thing).

Me:

Actually Matt. 10:28 says "geena" in the Greek according to the Blue Letter Bible. And by the way THAT is the scripture that riveted me into this study.



[/quote]
 
Michael A Disciple said:
quote:Some texts that use Hades are Matthew 10:28, Luke 10:15, Acts 2:31 (which by quoting an OT passage directly links Hades and Sheol as the same thing).

Me:

Actually Matt. 10:28 says "geena" in the Greek according to the Blue Letter Bible. And by the way THAT is the scripture that riveted me into this study.
[/quote]

Hi, Michael. Yes, you are correct, Matt 10:28 is gehenna. Don't know what I was thinking there. Unfortunately, what I'm finding here on this forum is that either traditionalists aren't even interested in debating it (which tells you how much they truly believe in eternal torment) or annihilationist arguments are being tainted by the universalist thinking on this subject (Sorry to our universalist brethren but it is true).

The universalists have some correct points on the lake of fire and the use of the word 'eternal'. The problem is, is that most of the people here don't take them seriously and therefore throw out these reasonable explanations because of the universalists' positions on other texts. Basically, convincing people of the rationality of annihilationism is suffering due to 'guilt by association' with the URists.

Another funny thing, it seems that the only people who have made any effort to dispute the biblically sound reasoning of annihilationism are not the traditionalists, but the universalists! :-D
 
The universalists have some correct points on the lake of fire and the use of the word 'eternal'. The problem is, is that most of the people here don't take them seriously and therefore throw out these reasonable explanations because of the universalists' positions on other texts. Basically, convincing people of the rationality of annihilationism is suffering due to 'guilt by association' with the URists.
Interesting you would say that. It is their position and understanding of various words and passages (despite my debating with them) that has strengthened my understanding and belief in annihilation. Annihilation and being eternally or perpetually seperated from God go hand in hand and doesn't violate the attributes of a loving and just Creator.
 
Malachi 4:1---For look! The day is coming that is burning like the furnace, and all the proud ones and all those doing wickedness must become as stubble, and the day that is coming will certainly devour them, Jehovah of armies has said, so that it will not leave to them either root or branch.


Malachi 4:3---And you people will certainly tread down the wicked ones for they will become as ashes under the soles of your feet.


"The above verses certainly make it seem like the souls of the unsaved will be thrown into a fire (the lake of fire) and end up totally and completely destroyed with absolutely no chance of ever being resurrected.



Psalms 37:20 "But the wicked shall perish; And the enemies of the Lord, Like the splendor of the meadows, shall vanish. Into smoke they shall vanish away."

Ezekiel 28:18-19 "By the multitude of your iniquities, in the unrighteousness of your trade, you profaned your sanctuaries. So I brought out fire from within you; it consumed you, and I turned you to ashes on the earth in the sight of all who saw you. All who know you among the peoples are appalled at you; you have come to a dreadful end and shall be no more forever".


Many people ask, how can an all loving God possibly allow people to end up being eternally destroyed by sending them into the lake of fire? But what we have to remember is that we send ourselves into that lake of fire. No child of God's will experience that terrible lake of fire, because the lake of fire is for sin and for those unrepentant sinners who practice sin, and for all those who reject God.


"shall be no more forever".
 
Here the universalists' position on 'death being destroyed' is weakened. They say, "If death is the last enemy to be destroyed, then the wicked can't be dead because then this is false as there is still dead."

Even though this is talking about dying in the future in God's new heaven and new earth, and not talking about the wicked already destroyed, we see that this annihilation of the wicked means that they become 'non-existent' and not merely just dead. It will be as if they had never been, for 'the memory of them is forgotten' (Ecclesiastes 9:5)

Then God can 'make all things new for the former things have passed away' Revelation 21:1-4. Sin, sinners, death, a sinful world, all are non-existent in God's new heaven and earth.
 
Fellow Annihilationists,

Lost my Motherboard back on 12-26-04 so could not get back to the conversation here. I have been on a good number of message boards but here seems to be the strongest outpost fot annihilation I have seen yet! This truth is growing. peace, michael
 
Michael A Disciple said:
Fellow Annihilationists,

Lost my Motherboard back on 12-26-04 so could not get back to the conversation here. I have been on a good number of message boards but here seems to be the strongest outpost fot annihilation I have seen yet! This truth is growing. peace, michael

Hi Michael! It has been a constant struggle. With the amount of posts defending the eternal torment doctrine, you'd think most of the people here reject it. Those that have tried to defend it are seemingly ignoring the strong language in the Bible and the use of metaphorical language cross referenced between Revelation and the OT to show that destruction of God's enemies and not eternal torment. By far, the annihilationist perspective and conditional mortality is the most supported view in the Bible. The traditional hell followers believe that words like 'destruction', 'perishing', 'death', 'contempt', 'wasting away', 'consume' and 'second death' mean 'eternal conscious ruin and torment in hell'.

On the other side, we have the universalists who believe that words like 'destruction', 'perishing', 'death', 'contempt', 'wasting away', 'consume' and 'second death' mean 'eternal life when all is said and done'.

Neither argument holds water unless you twist the scriptures into something completely different to fit man made philosophies.

Annihilation promotes God as loving in that He respects freedom of choice and does not force anyone to choose to serve Him, and just and merciful in that the wages of sin is death and He follows His code. He doesn't want anyone to suffer needlessly but must be destroyed with the sinful earth they have chosen to hang on to.

So we have two choices. A mushy God who forces everyone to serve Him and winks at sin and freedom of choice, or a blood thirsty monster who loved sinners enough to come and die for them to give them a choice, and yet created a hell specifically to punish sinners allowing them to suffer continuous third degree burns for trillions of years. All for a mere 70+ of life on earth.

I choose the third one: the God of the Bible. He who respects freedom of choice and loves sinners so much that He is willing to let them go, but is merciful enough to put them out of their misery so 'the memory of them is forgotten' and He can make all things new.