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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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IS HELL FOREVER?
- Thread starter DRS81
- Start date
turnorburn
Member
- Nov 21, 2007
- 8,713
- 462
Is Hell Forever is the name of this thread.. we live in a temporal world everything outside of our temporal world is eternal.. in order to understand eternity we must be born again we can't see it with our temporal minds.. doesn't scripture teach us that which is seen is temporal and that which is unseen is eternal therefore if we can't see hell that brings us to one conclusion and that is Hell Is Forever..
O.k. Timothy its your turn
tob
O.k. Timothy its your turn
tob
turnorburn
Member
- Nov 21, 2007
- 8,713
- 462
What Kathi said was heart felt DRS81.. I'd like you to read something, this happened when an atheist doctor had a patient on an operating table sliding in and out of death..
We're going to examine the place the Bible calls hell. We'll present documented evidence for a place called hell. Don't take what you're going to read lightly. If what you read is true — YOU COULD BE IN SERIOUS DANGER!
Several years ago a book was published, entitled Beyond Death's Door by Dr. Maurice Rawlings. Dr. Rawlings, a specialist in Internal Medicine and Cardiovascular Disease, resuscitated many people who had been clinically dead. Dr. Rawlings, a devout atheist, "considered all religion "hocus-pocus" and death nothing more than a painless extinction". But something happened in 1977 that brought a dramatic change in the life of Dr. Rawlings! He was resuscitating a man, terrified and screaming — descending down into the flames of hell: "Each time he regained heartbeat and respiration, the patient screamed, "I am in hell!"
He was terrified and pleaded with me to help him. I was scared to death. . . Then I noticed a genuinely alarmed look on his face. He had a terrified look worse than the expression seen in death! This patient had a grotesque grimace expressing sheer horror! His pupils were dilated, and he was perspiring and trembling — he looked as if his hair was "on end."
Then still another strange thing happened. He said,"Don't you understand? I am in hell. . . Don't let me go back to hell!". . .the man was serious, and it finally occurred to me that he was indeed in trouble. He was in a panic like I had never seen before."
(Maurice Rawlings, Beyond Death's Door,(Thomas Nelson Inc., 1979) p. 3). Dr. Rawlings said, no one, who could have heard his screams and saw the look of terror on his face could doubt for a single minute that he was actually in a place called hell!
The Bible continually warns of a place called hell. There are over 162 references in the New Testament alone which warns of hell. And over 70 of these references were uttered by the Lord Jesus Christ!
http://www.av1611.org/hell.html
tob
We're going to examine the place the Bible calls hell. We'll present documented evidence for a place called hell. Don't take what you're going to read lightly. If what you read is true — YOU COULD BE IN SERIOUS DANGER!
Several years ago a book was published, entitled Beyond Death's Door by Dr. Maurice Rawlings. Dr. Rawlings, a specialist in Internal Medicine and Cardiovascular Disease, resuscitated many people who had been clinically dead. Dr. Rawlings, a devout atheist, "considered all religion "hocus-pocus" and death nothing more than a painless extinction". But something happened in 1977 that brought a dramatic change in the life of Dr. Rawlings! He was resuscitating a man, terrified and screaming — descending down into the flames of hell: "Each time he regained heartbeat and respiration, the patient screamed, "I am in hell!"
He was terrified and pleaded with me to help him. I was scared to death. . . Then I noticed a genuinely alarmed look on his face. He had a terrified look worse than the expression seen in death! This patient had a grotesque grimace expressing sheer horror! His pupils were dilated, and he was perspiring and trembling — he looked as if his hair was "on end."
Then still another strange thing happened. He said,"Don't you understand? I am in hell. . . Don't let me go back to hell!". . .the man was serious, and it finally occurred to me that he was indeed in trouble. He was in a panic like I had never seen before."
(Maurice Rawlings, Beyond Death's Door,(Thomas Nelson Inc., 1979) p. 3). Dr. Rawlings said, no one, who could have heard his screams and saw the look of terror on his face could doubt for a single minute that he was actually in a place called hell!
The Bible continually warns of a place called hell. There are over 162 references in the New Testament alone which warns of hell. And over 70 of these references were uttered by the Lord Jesus Christ!
http://www.av1611.org/hell.html
tob
I have heard of instances of this before.It is more rare for you to hear of this than a heavenly experience.I know a Cardiologist who has a speciality in treating heart arrythmias.He has treated many many people who have had cardiac arrests.He started doing some research on it because of some of the experiences he encountered.Not alot because apparently not everyone has these experiences.Some just say they remember nothing and woke up in a hospital.
- Thread starter
- #147
I think people are desperate for attention and money, so they write books that are hopefully published and sold, and make corny youtube videos. People who write about the afterlife as if they have this deeper truth of what it's like or they've "been there", it's all a scam to get your money in their pocket. These authors are no better than the medium in 1 Sam 28:3-25, or people praying to Mary because they think Mary's ghost is alive in heaven. There is only one resurrection for your body and soul, and that's the first resurrection. The first resurrection is biblical, spirit ghosts are not. The third heaven where Jesus resides right now is not reserved for human spirits. It is only reserved for the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit to heal, convict and obtain sovereignty over the world. Nothing more. Eccl 12:7 and Rev 20:4-6 does not say that after you die you automatically spring to life. No, it's saying they come to life specifically after the first resurrection and the great white throne. This is your time line. The Bible gives us a time line of when this occurs, but everybody seems to want to ignore this.
Eccl 12:7 is referring to your spirit. Your spirit is the breath of God, it is breath. It is not ghostly figures walking around like Hollywood movies portray it. God is not saying that when you die you are walking around the third heaven as breath, that's ludicrous. Breath is a substance FROM GOD that gave your soul and body life! Without your body, breath does not exist. Eccl 12:7 is simply God taking back what is his, and that is HIS breath given to us as a gift. If people say you go straight to heaven after you die then wouldn't you need a brain to talk to Jesus? Wouldn't you need arms and legs to run and hug Jesus?? Wouldn't you need eyes and ears to SEE and HEAR Jesus! You need a brain, eyes, ears, arms and legs to do these things. And our brain, eyes, ears, arms and legs are connected to our body which will be resurrected at the first resurrection.
Eccl 12:7 and the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.
Rev 20:4-6 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.
TimothyW
Member
- May 1, 2013
- 817
- 26
Hello TOB. How are you doing?
I believe that hell is forever, and I agree with Jesus Christ who said "Fear the one who is able to destroy both body and soul in hell (Gehenna)."
This brings us to the conclusion that hell is forever and those who are sent there will be destroyed there.
Thank you for providing your source of information, but after reading what he/she said in the sermon, I have serious questions about what he wrote. BTW just because he/she uploaded his sermons to a data base, it does not mean that he/she is either Evangelical or recognized by others as a serious scholar. As a matter of fact, I tried to fins some data about this person, such as a bio on the site, and I was not able to do that. I CAN say that his/her style of sermon writing is very much in the pattern that the Mormons use, and I can say that his usage of words seems more to impress others than to be an accurate description of things e.g. "Clouds and angels are promiscuously the chariots of God. " and "His appearance upon the mount was a kind of specimen of the resurrection " and "Calvary is the theme of celestial rapture "and " the presence of his retinue of angels is understood"
BTW "celestial" is a code-word for the Mormonic three levels of heaven doctrine.
Plus, your comment is really not in keeping with the facts of the Transfiguration: "Moses and Elijah are just symbols that describe future events. " You seem not to remember the connection between the two: Elijah was the ONLY person living on Earth, who never died, and Lucifer attempted to claim the dead body of Moses.
Cabal, T., Brand, C. O., Clendenen, E. R., Copan, P., Moreland, J. P., & Powell, D. (2007). The Apologetics Study Bible: Real Questions, Straight Answers, Stronger Faith (p. 1531). Nashville, TN: Holman Bible Publishers.
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Perhaps the most egregious errors that your source makes are these:
1) "But the apostles are all dead, and the kingdom is still future." It seems as your source has not read Acts, and the rest of the NT. the Apostles ALL were very much alive when the Transfiguration happened
2) "In the visions of the prophets the two advents of Messiah are blended "
3) "Of this glory there were remarkable prophetic anticipations in the glorious Divine forms or similitudes of Old Testament times." Since when does God share His unique glory with anyone?
Additionally, your statement
"The transfiguration is specifically describing
(1) the rapture and
(2) the first resurrection.
[3] Moses represents those who are dead in their grave, Elijah represents those that are still alive."
is not found in any part of the teaching that Jesus explained about the Transfiguration. Since Jesus did make it a point to explain the parables to His disciples, is it not conceivable that He would have used some of the same terminology that your source any you are using? the conspicuous absence of such teachings is compelling evidence that makes your teachings (and the author's) highly unlikely..
With what group does your source affiliate?
BTW "celestial" is a code-word for the Mormonic three levels of heaven doctrine.
Plus, your comment is really not in keeping with the facts of the Transfiguration: "Moses and Elijah are just symbols that describe future events. " You seem not to remember the connection between the two: Elijah was the ONLY person living on Earth, who never died, and Lucifer attempted to claim the dead body of Moses.
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The historicity of the transfiguration is doubted by some because of its supernatural elements. It is often thought to be a post-resurrection story read back into the life of Jesus. But the story bears no real resemblance to other resurrection appearances (Moses, Elijah, and the glory of Jesus do not appear in any resurrection story). And reference to it in 2 Pt 1:16–18 indicates that the transfiguration was always seen as occurring before Jesus’ passion and not after
The historicity of the transfiguration is doubted by some because of its supernatural elements. It is often thought to be a post-resurrection story read back into the life of Jesus. But the story bears no real resemblance to other resurrection appearances (Moses, Elijah, and the glory of Jesus do not appear in any resurrection story). And reference to it in 2 Pt 1:16–18 indicates that the transfiguration was always seen as occurring before Jesus’ passion and not after
Cabal, T., Brand, C. O., Clendenen, E. R., Copan, P., Moreland, J. P., & Powell, D. (2007). The Apologetics Study Bible: Real Questions, Straight Answers, Stronger Faith (p. 1531). Nashville, TN: Holman Bible Publishers.
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Perhaps the most egregious errors that your source makes are these:
1) "But the apostles are all dead, and the kingdom is still future." It seems as your source has not read Acts, and the rest of the NT. the Apostles ALL were very much alive when the Transfiguration happened
2) "In the visions of the prophets the two advents of Messiah are blended "
3) "Of this glory there were remarkable prophetic anticipations in the glorious Divine forms or similitudes of Old Testament times." Since when does God share His unique glory with anyone?
Additionally, your statement
"The transfiguration is specifically describing
(1) the rapture and
(2) the first resurrection.
[3] Moses represents those who are dead in their grave, Elijah represents those that are still alive."
is not found in any part of the teaching that Jesus explained about the Transfiguration. Since Jesus did make it a point to explain the parables to His disciples, is it not conceivable that He would have used some of the same terminology that your source any you are using? the conspicuous absence of such teachings is compelling evidence that makes your teachings (and the author's) highly unlikely..
With what group does your source affiliate?