D
Dave Slayer
Guest
Is it a sin to sue people?
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handy
Member
I believe that it is a sin for a Christian to sue a Christian. Brothers and sisters in the Lord can and should be able to work out an issue with each other without involving the courts. Paul addressed this, I just cannot remember the text, but the Spirit was quite strong on him as he wrote to us to never drag one of the brethren to a worldly court.
However, when dealing with legal issues with non-Christians and with corporations, then suing can be an option. I don't think anyone should needlessly litigate. But, I don't believe that there is any prohibition to suing a non-Christian or corporation if there are real legal grievances to be addressed.
And, yes, for full disclosure, my hubby was involved in a lawsuit against his former employers who forced him to work off the clock then fired him when he refused to do so.
However, when dealing with legal issues with non-Christians and with corporations, then suing can be an option. I don't think anyone should needlessly litigate. But, I don't believe that there is any prohibition to suing a non-Christian or corporation if there are real legal grievances to be addressed.
And, yes, for full disclosure, my hubby was involved in a lawsuit against his former employers who forced him to work off the clock then fired him when he refused to do so.
J
justvisiting
Guest
I think Paul was talking about receptive Christians...and disputes being settled by a Spiritual leader. Remember the church leaders were very respected in the time of Paul.
In the case of non-receptive Christians.Today, half of them don't even listen to their pastors. In fact, probably half the pastors don't even listen to God, the way they should.
It may have to come to court. Obviously, not the desirable route. I'm sure any good Christian would weigh the matter with God before proceeding.
There are a lot of things today that don't measure up to the early church. As we get closer and closer to the end, we probably will become more and more like them...or totally worse again.
Hopefully, better for most of us.
In the case of non-receptive Christians.Today, half of them don't even listen to their pastors. In fact, probably half the pastors don't even listen to God, the way they should.
It may have to come to court. Obviously, not the desirable route. I'm sure any good Christian would weigh the matter with God before proceeding.
There are a lot of things today that don't measure up to the early church. As we get closer and closer to the end, we probably will become more and more like them...or totally worse again.
Hopefully, better for most of us.
G
Grams
Guest
I do not believe it is . The way people are today , as
I have seen such a difference in this world since I was a young lady.
I keep thinking I have seen and heard it all. And the next day, there seems to be more and even
worse then yesterday.
Lewis
Member
There is Scripture for that 1 Cor 6:1-2, but those verses are for the saved against each other. We are supposed to go before men of God so that they could judge our matters, but that does not happen anymore. And because we don't do that anymore, we have to go to the heathen court system. To sue the saved and the non saved. And even though the secular court system comes from the Bible it does not obey the laws from which it came.
Think somewhere is scripture it does refer to it as a sin. If not, it is discouraged. Think it should not just apply to our brothers and sisters in faith...but all....sueing someone is done with the intent of retaliation....which could be interpretted or seen as a form of vengence.
Then....one can only turn the other cheek for so long before losing one's patience.
Then....one can only turn the other cheek for so long before losing one's patience.
LostLamb said:
I know it looks as if I am always looking to correct people , but this is a Christian forum and I am always interested in WHY people think the things they think
So forgive me, but I have to ask: Do you think that we may say that to God ? That we can only turn the other cheek for so long? I just to want to get your take on it, because it seems like you are saying that , that verse, has a hidden clause? The hidden clause being that its OK not to turn the other cheek, IF you at least gave it your best for a while. Is that correct, or am I misunderstanding you ?C
jasoncran
Member
in my situation i settled for 30 grand, my national guard career could been over thanks to god , none of that happened, the business had insurance and settled for that amount, but for a brief period 5yrs later my back went south.
what if i lost my national guard career,potential retirement of 1000 usd a month at age 60 for me. Is that fair? what if i lost my ability to work, i did it so that i could have something for my injuries which are real and have been healed. I would then since 98 be on ssi. a wopping 900 usd a month, if i were to be disabled. Insurance is what that's for , homeowners, auto,liability, bonds, workers comp. unfortunalelty people make mistakes and hurt others, is it fair to the injured that he or she must go without income for something they didnt do. Yes , i believe in settling the affair before going to court, but sometimes that route is necessary, christians often act in the flesh and wont pay a dime for soemthing like that unless forced to.
should the modern church have courts now? how would that be legally binding, think about if the church did that, the church would become a defacto state, a small autonomy within the said coutry were are in.
Do i think that we christians should settle this with another before going to court, of course, but what if said party refuse to compensate? or the amount would put him or her out of job or home if paid in cash , (if the party had no insurance) in many jobs(self-employed) require some type insurance bonding etc.
jason
what if i lost my national guard career,potential retirement of 1000 usd a month at age 60 for me. Is that fair? what if i lost my ability to work, i did it so that i could have something for my injuries which are real and have been healed. I would then since 98 be on ssi. a wopping 900 usd a month, if i were to be disabled. Insurance is what that's for , homeowners, auto,liability, bonds, workers comp. unfortunalelty people make mistakes and hurt others, is it fair to the injured that he or she must go without income for something they didnt do. Yes , i believe in settling the affair before going to court, but sometimes that route is necessary, christians often act in the flesh and wont pay a dime for soemthing like that unless forced to.
should the modern church have courts now? how would that be legally binding, think about if the church did that, the church would become a defacto state, a small autonomy within the said coutry were are in.
Do i think that we christians should settle this with another before going to court, of course, but what if said party refuse to compensate? or the amount would put him or her out of job or home if paid in cash , (if the party had no insurance) in many jobs(self-employed) require some type insurance bonding etc.
jason
Cornelius said:I know it looks as if I am always looking to correct people , but this is a Christian forum and I am always interested in WHY people think the things they think
C
I think you misunderstand me. I am not at all saying it is alright. Rather I am saying I can understand how it can be very difficult to turn the other cheek sometimes. That is all, I am by no means trying to justify the act itself.
LostLamb said:Cornelius said:I know it looks as if I am always looking to correct people , but this is a Christian forum and I am always interested in WHY people think the things they think
C
I think you misunderstand me. I am not at all saying it is alright. Rather I am saying I can understand how it can be very difficult to turn the other cheek sometimes. That is all, I am by no means trying to justify the act itself.
Thank you for clarifying .
jasoncran said:
Do you think this scripture might shed some light?
1Pe 3:14 But even if ye should suffer for righteousness' sake, blessed are ye: and fear not their fear, neither be troubled;
1Pe 3:17 For it is better, if the will of God should so will, that ye suffer for well-doing than for evil-doing.
I understand it to mean, that it may be better to give up when you are indeed in the right. You are within your right to demand payment, and then decide to lay down that right, for righteousness sake. Difficult to do, but it is a higher road.
What do you think?
C
jasoncran
Member
suffer yes, but sometimes if ones has kids what do you do? I was hit by a driver who feel asleep at the wheel and worked for a large ag business. I felt for him, but i sued the company not him. I believe sometimes one must stand for your rights, i dont think that we should be sue happy, no , but we are required by law to carry insurance for this reason. Is that law then unbiblical? I dont think that fight is worth it(to change, pick a fight that is worth it).
I have been fender benders since with no injury and just got a check for the repairs.
I know that you don believe in the military, what if that person killed me(by accident) and i was married and my wife is now having to pick up the slack. I sued the company becasue i thought it was an accident and to me it's no different than going to you and say pay me for the loss you caused and you agree. It's done this way as i dont have that amount to give to a person(s) if i cause an accident. That's what insurance is. I sue the company and his insurance. If I settled out of court which i did ,and i can no longer collect on this. However, if i collected what ever he could give me, just because you own an ag company you maynt have that cash for treatment so you settle and i take it , either it's to little for my expenses or my back injuries is worse and he lied what then.
Does the church in america make laws then on this? is this what the bible really says. It would then become a de facto state and pastors arbritators, and those who would advocate lawyers.
what say you on that. Not an easy answer on this as this is how it works in the no fault state of florida
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I have been fender benders since with no injury and just got a check for the repairs.
I know that you don believe in the military, what if that person killed me(by accident) and i was married and my wife is now having to pick up the slack. I sued the company becasue i thought it was an accident and to me it's no different than going to you and say pay me for the loss you caused and you agree. It's done this way as i dont have that amount to give to a person(s) if i cause an accident. That's what insurance is. I sue the company and his insurance. If I settled out of court which i did ,and i can no longer collect on this. However, if i collected what ever he could give me, just because you own an ag company you maynt have that cash for treatment so you settle and i take it , either it's to little for my expenses or my back injuries is worse and he lied what then.
Does the church in america make laws then on this? is this what the bible really says. It would then become a de facto state and pastors arbritators, and those who would advocate lawyers.
what say you on that. Not an easy answer on this as this is how it works in the no fault state of florida
continue
I agree, its difficult.
I think when dealing with a Christian brother or sister, I would let it go. I have lost out on what legally was mine a few times in my life, because of what I believe. The other day, a Christian commissioned some of my work, I delivered . He paid half of about $9000 and then silence. I phoned and was ignored. Then I felt that maybe he was in financial trouble (it was during the start of last year's meltdown and he is in property) So I text him on his phone that I am going to write off the $4500 outstanding. He immediately phoned back this time, saying no, he will pay , but I must give a discount (I though I did ......100% LOL ) so I did and then he paid $2000. Then silence again. LOL So I wrote it off and left it.
The other night his partner told me how good the work looked in this guys house and how good business is at the moment. I had to bite my tongue LOL , but did not say anything (this guy was the person who told the other person about me, and placed us together in this work situation ) That brother has never bothered to contact me again regarding any of this, but I have really forgiven him and to be honest this is the first time I am really telling the story , because none of you know this person.
I think when dealing with a Christian brother or sister, I would let it go. I have lost out on what legally was mine a few times in my life, because of what I believe. The other day, a Christian commissioned some of my work, I delivered . He paid half of about $9000 and then silence. I phoned and was ignored. Then I felt that maybe he was in financial trouble (it was during the start of last year's meltdown and he is in property) So I text him on his phone that I am going to write off the $4500 outstanding. He immediately phoned back this time, saying no, he will pay , but I must give a discount (I though I did ......100% LOL ) so I did and then he paid $2000. Then silence again. LOL So I wrote it off and left it.
The other night his partner told me how good the work looked in this guys house and how good business is at the moment. I had to bite my tongue LOL , but did not say anything (this guy was the person who told the other person about me, and placed us together in this work situation ) That brother has never bothered to contact me again regarding any of this, but I have really forgiven him and to be honest this is the first time I am really telling the story , because none of you know this person.
jasoncran
Member
then no fault law is required to cover the passenger in the car and the pedistrians and certain insurance coverage miniuims.
not to get off topic, cornelius, you live in a third world country and dont have these things.
If i was to hit a person and were to seriously injure him or her and just prayed for the healing and NOT CALL 911 AND THAT PERSON WERE TO DIE, I WOULD BE LIABLE FOR CIVIL AND CRIMINAL LAWS. so i would be wise to pray and call 911( that first) i can admin first aid as i have the knowledge to do that.
most christians know this and would comply and it isnt evil or wrong or unbiblical. I know that you believe that is wrong, but i dont and many others in the west dont. None of these things are directly stated against in the bible. Would you tempt the lord if he told you that go to hospital and i will heal you by surgery, insurance isnt in the bible nor is voting and i end here. Just because it isnt there doesnt mean that its bad.Neither is the aquaducts that churches in ephesus and galatians and collose used either, but there were there and built by the roman empire were they evil? I'll bet 1000 usd that those christians used them.
not to get off topic, cornelius, you live in a third world country and dont have these things.
If i was to hit a person and were to seriously injure him or her and just prayed for the healing and NOT CALL 911 AND THAT PERSON WERE TO DIE, I WOULD BE LIABLE FOR CIVIL AND CRIMINAL LAWS. so i would be wise to pray and call 911( that first) i can admin first aid as i have the knowledge to do that.
most christians know this and would comply and it isnt evil or wrong or unbiblical. I know that you believe that is wrong, but i dont and many others in the west dont. None of these things are directly stated against in the bible. Would you tempt the lord if he told you that go to hospital and i will heal you by surgery, insurance isnt in the bible nor is voting and i end here. Just because it isnt there doesnt mean that its bad.Neither is the aquaducts that churches in ephesus and galatians and collose used either, but there were there and built by the roman empire were they evil? I'll bet 1000 usd that those christians used them.
J
justvisiting
Guest
I agree with Jason. It would be great if things were settled out of court. This whole issue really goes to the heart of the justice system period. Should we use it? I have no problem with using it. I have called the police on many car thieves. No regrets. I have called the police over spousal abuse, when I see others being mistreated. No regrets. If the injustice is done against us personally. God has put the governments in power. He rules over even the basest of men...not saying we should always do what they say. Peter and John said...it is better to obey God than men.
The first resort should always be through the church if possible...but if it's not possible...that's why the ruling powers are there...to be subject unto them...and to use them for protection.
If you had 100 employees relying on you for their paycheques...and you couldn't, because some insidious person wanted to run off the with the money, would you sue him. I would.
This actually happened in my brother's company.
I think we have to weigh the matter with God...considering the whole situation.
...even Paul said "I appeal unto Caesar".
The first resort should always be through the church if possible...but if it's not possible...that's why the ruling powers are there...to be subject unto them...and to use them for protection.
If you had 100 employees relying on you for their paycheques...and you couldn't, because some insidious person wanted to run off the with the money, would you sue him. I would.
This actually happened in my brother's company.
I think we have to weigh the matter with God...considering the whole situation.
...even Paul said "I appeal unto Caesar".
handy
Member
A big part of the reason why we decided to join in the lawsuit against my husband's former employer, was not only recoup what my husband lost in fair wages, but to also work towards putting a stop to their illegal activity. What they were doing was out and out illegal. They cowed people into working off the clock and working unpaid through lunch hours by simply firing anyone who didn't do so. Within 2 weeks of my husband deciding that he was no longer going to work off the clock, he was walked out the door.
I worked there and my husband was fired there so I know for a fact that they forced people into this illegal and immoral situation. Sometimes, mothers and fathers would not get off until well after 10:00 at night, long after kids were in bed, were expected to be there by 8:00 am in the following morning, even though they were no longer paid after 8 hours of work. If one was even 5 minutes late in the morning, the threat of being fired was always brought up. My husband was even threatened with firing when he was late because I was having a miscarriage. That wreaks havoc on a family life.
Monetarily, we only gained pretty much what my husband lost in fair wages in the lawsuit, if even that, but the lawsuit put a stop to the practice.
It wasn't as if this was a church or a Christian co-operation. It was a large business who had a crack legal team and would not have listened one whit to a religious leader.
I worked there and my husband was fired there so I know for a fact that they forced people into this illegal and immoral situation. Sometimes, mothers and fathers would not get off until well after 10:00 at night, long after kids were in bed, were expected to be there by 8:00 am in the following morning, even though they were no longer paid after 8 hours of work. If one was even 5 minutes late in the morning, the threat of being fired was always brought up. My husband was even threatened with firing when he was late because I was having a miscarriage. That wreaks havoc on a family life.
Monetarily, we only gained pretty much what my husband lost in fair wages in the lawsuit, if even that, but the lawsuit put a stop to the practice.
It wasn't as if this was a church or a Christian co-operation. It was a large business who had a crack legal team and would not have listened one whit to a religious leader.
jasoncran
Member
dora, you reminded of when i worked for a church that used its employees, they worked overtime and were paid straigh time, not legal, i just felt that it was wrong and it is but said nothing. and someone else reported them and i got the money owed me. so christians do injure another. The dept of labor came down on them hard!
jason
jason
J
justvisiting
Guest
I agree with what you did Handy. It's not like Christians are trying to play some insidious game of setting someone up. Most of us are only seeking justice. If by easier means, then we go that route. If that isn't possible...after carefully weighing with God, what we should do...I see no problem with using the laws of the land.
There are times when we can forgive a personal debt...but when the well being of our families or friends are in jeopardy... or even to make sure injustice does not continue...I see no problem with using the laws of the land.
There are times when we can forgive a personal debt...but when the well being of our families or friends are in jeopardy... or even to make sure injustice does not continue...I see no problem with using the laws of the land.