Is it a sin to take medications?

[Cornelius]

Thank you for clarifying. But, Cornelius, I would request that you refrain from continuously making comments like, "if you read the Bible." I do read the Bible.

When a child gets sick, is it a sin to get medical help for him? On the other hand, is it a sin to refuse medical treatment and allow your child to die? These are rhetorical questions; something to think about.

Sorry JoJo, that was not meant to sound as if you do not read it ! For me that is just the way I talk. I know you read your Bible. I should say: When you go back and study this that would be more to the point.

About a sick child: It ultimately depends on your faith, does it not? Now being on forums for a few years, I know that "faith" does not mean the same thing to all Christians. In this , it would mean: If the person TRULY have faith, that the verse in 1 Pet 2:24 is indeed true and they are convinced that it means that we WERE healed, they would react differently, that the person who do not believe it.

That said.......Faith is a journey that must first be started. God is not a monster and He loves it when we start to trust Him in all things, and He will lead us gently when we tell Him to teach us about His view on faith. His view just might turn out a little different from our view.

Faith that brings a person to the point where they just accept the Word and not try and reason it away, is a faith that places you in a spot. Its difficult for all Christians who want to walk this way. God seems to take you further and further away from what we would see as a natural solution to a problem. He keeps on gently pushing us towards trusting Him with everything.

At first, we are scared. What if, what if , what if, is all that goes through one's mind. What if I die. What if I get a stroke. All these things went through my mind a few years back, when I stepped off the prescription drugs. I truly failed the first time, through fear. The first time my blood pressure went through the roof, I panicked and took my meds again. I was walking into the walls LOL. I did not have faith, I was legalistic and wanted to make God heal me, because I was doing "the right thing" God did not hate me for it, He helped me. It took six month for me to unlearn some things, and then God prepared me and then gave me the faith for it. Again, I walked into the walls, but this time,no fear. Then it went away. Today I am healed.

God healed my leg. I am a painter and I stand all day in front of an easle (standing for twenty year now LOL) and suddenly my one leg started giving in. Something with the blood vessels that were obviously saying "We had enough". I had somebody pray for the leg and then I started believing the Word and I was indeed healed (although I could not see it YET ) It took time, and during that time, I went through fear as well. I HAVE to stand and work, I cannot sit and paint. But the truth about God and what He promised kept me standing (literally too ! ) Today I am totally healed and have no problems with my legs at all.

Same with my eyes. I am 53 and do not wear glasses (glory to God) although I did as a child. God also healed my eyes from constant pain when I was posting here on the Internet, or watching a movie. All gone, through prayer and faith in His Word.

God heals more than just our bodies through prayer. He heals our pets, he fixes things too. He "healed" a water pipe the other day. The pipe outside my house leaked and made a huge wet spot . A friend said: Let pray and trust God to heal it (I thought: Yea well, I have no faith that it will happen) I reluctantly agreed, and we prayed the prayer of agreement (when two agree, it shall be done) I had doubts , I must admit, but when I opened the pipe (because the spot was still wet, I thought it did not work) the hole was not there anymore. I left it open for two weeks , so that I could look at it to make sure LOL. This is about two years ago and never a leak again from that pipe !

I could go on, but this is getting too long

C

 

[JoJo]

Sorry JoJo, that was not meant to sound as if you do not read it ! For me that is just the way I talk. I know you read your Bible. I should say: When you go back and study this that would be more to the point.

Thanks!

I really do understand what you're trying to say throughout this thread. If we have faith as small as a mustard seed, we can move a mountain. But most of us look at that mountain and think "there is no way I can move that mountain." And then sometimes I wonder if Jesus was specifically speaking to his disciples or if he meant all of us. He did refer to a "faithless and perverse generation" (Matt. 17:17)

 

[Cornelius]

I really do understand what you're trying to say throughout this thread. If we have faith as small as a mustard seed, we can move a mountain. But most of us look at that mountain and think "there is no way I can move that mountain." And then sometimes I wonder if Jesus was specifically speaking to his disciples or if he meant all of us. He did refer to a "faithless and perverse generation" (Matt. 17:17)

God wrote the Bible to you personally, because all you need to know is in there. The same faith in you, will do the same as it did through Jesus. He gave us the Word, so that we could ALL learn to have His faith.

Al "tests of faith" look impossible (they are suppose to look like that, or else where would be the test LOL ) I sometimes say" Oh God, why did you choose this as a test, I really, really do not feel like this one!" (I truly do that sometimes, and then I always realize that a test is a test and its always uncomfortable ) For us , it always seem to be the wring thing at the wrong time.

Yesterday, my right hand which I paint with, developed a needle pain under the middle finger. I thought: Oh this is not a good place to put a pain for a test, I must paint with this hand. But this time I have no fear, because something happened during all the other tests: I seem to have grown a bit and my faith is not so weak as in the first test. This time I KNOW, that its only a matter of time, before it goes away.Why? Because I learned that I was actually healed at the cross already !Praise God, He is wonderful.

blessings
C

 

[sheshisown]

Cornelius~

Dear brother, please let me better explain what I meant, and clarify faith in turth the very best I am able.

I used Lazarus as an example of how the Lord may chose to delay our healing... even to our death... when He has a purpose to do so. And we are in His hands, pierced for us, and we seek to submit under His will. Both you and me.

Who healed every single time He sought to? Christ alone. WHY?
God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, who went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him. Acts 10:38

Because... Jesus was always~ anointed by Spirit and went about doing good.
He never did an evil thing, He hated evil.
He always did the right thing.
He alone qualifies for acceptance by the Father in every single prayer request...

I praise God for this exact same Christ , is living in me too. In fact, it is this same Christ, that still brings healing to our bodies.

Yes and He lives in all of us who have recieved His work of redemption on the cross, isn't that true? However, just as you openly admit, we all fail sometimes to trust, sometimes we question His tests... In this as in many other minor things we fail to allow Christ to live through us, to be the power of God to the world about us. Therefore since Jesus NEVER failed to represent the perfect pleasing will of His Father in heaven... HIS PRAYERS were always perfectly answered. Which is different from ours.

The Bible teaches us that we do not always know what to ask for, that we err in asking amiss, in a wrong manner or with a wrong motive, that we may feed our lusts. Now I am not talking about you, or any single person, rather about all Christians who are BEING perfected... completed... until the Day of Christ. :yes

How we look forward to THAT blessed day, and no reason why we should not, for it not only draws nearer every day, but it that day we will see Him face to face! In fact we are told to do so, to look for His appearing. :D

So in short; It depends where one's faith it. Sometimes the same person will stand in victory today and tomorrow they fall again. It’s about the growth, without condemnation. But never think that faith cannot grow to: Mat 17:20 And he saith unto them,... for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed...................... nothing shall be impossible unto you.

Nothing , means healing too, will not be impossible if you have faith as a grain of mustard seed.

Truly my dear brother we are growing into His likeness as we are looking to Him. You and me.

But lets look at the scripture in context...

Then Jesus answered and said, "O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? How long shall I bear with you? Bring him here to Me." And Jesus rebuked the demon, and it came out of him; and the child was cured from that very hour. Then the disciples came to Jesus privately and said, "Why could we not cast it out?" So Jesus said to them, "Because of your unbelief; for assuredly, I say to you, if you have faith as a mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move; and nothing will be impossible for you. However, this kind does not go out except by prayer and fasting."

Jesus laid the inability of the disciples to cast out the demon at their unbelief. To be successful in casting out demons, there must be trust in the Lord God who has total authority over the demons.


The faith that we must have is a faith that has more to do with what kind of faith it is than with how much faith there is. A small amount of faith ~ as much as a mustard seed (a very small seed) ~ can accomplish great things, if that small amount of faith is placed in a great and mighty God. :shades

Little faith can accomplish great things; but great faith can accomplish even greater things. What matters most is what our faith is in, the Greatness is in the OBJECT of our faith. Never in faith itself.

"The eye cannot see itself. Did you ever see your own eye? In a mirror you may have done so, but that was only a reflection of it. And you may, in like manner, see the evidence of your faith, but you cannot look at the faith itself. Faith looks away from itself to the object of faith, even to Christ." (Spurgeon)

In His name, by His will, I can accomplish ALL things. :amen bonnie

 

[Cornelius]

Dear brother, please let me better explain what I meant, and clarify faith in turth the very best I am able.

I used Lazarus as an example of how the Lord may chose to delay our healing... even to our death... when He has a purpose to do so. And we are in His hands, pierced for us, and we seek to submit under His will. Both you and me.

The reason I said not to use it as an example "unto death" is because it was not unto death, but this was "unto life" Lazarus had a "blip" where his lights went out , until Life arrived.

So we cannot use Lazarus to tell people to make peace with their sickness .

Yes and He lives in all of us who have recieved His work of redemption on the cross, isn't that true? However, just as you openly admit, we all fail sometimes to trust, sometimes we question His tests... In this as in many other minor things we fail to allow Christ to live through us, to be the power of God to the world about us. Therefore since Jesus NEVER failed to represent the perfect pleasing will of His Father in heaven... HIS PRAYERS were always perfectly answered. Which is different from ours.

Agreed, but we are not to use our failure as an excuse not to press on to perfection in faith:Php 3:13 Brethren, I count not myself yet to have laid hold: but one thing I do, forgetting the things which are behind, and stretching forward to the things which are before,
Php 3:14 I press on toward the goal unto the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
Php 3:15 Let us therefore, as many as are perfect, be thus minded: and if in anything ye are otherwise minded, this also shall God reveal unto you:

The Bible teaches us that we do not always know what to ask for, that we err in asking amiss, in a wrong manner or with a wrong motive, that we may feed our lusts. Now I am not talking about you, or any single person, rather about all Christians who are BEING perfected... completed... until the Day of Christ. :yes

Yes, as long as you do not see health as a lust, we are in agreement.The Bible is clear that sickness is part of the curse and as such not in God's will for His redeemed (from the curse)

How we look forward to THAT blessed day, and no reason why we should not, for it not only draws nearer every day, but it that day we will see Him face to face! In fact we are told to do so, to look for His appearing. :D

Amen, I also look forward to that day. But my health I have today.


Tr

uly my dear brother we are growing into His likeness as we are looking to Him. You and me.

But lets look at the scripture in context...

Then Jesus answered and said, "O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? How long shall I bear with you? Bring him here to Me." And Jesus rebuked the demon, and it came out of him; and the child was cured from that very hour. Then the disciples came to Jesus privately and said, "Why could we not cast it out?" So Jesus said to them, "Because of your unbelief; for assuredly, I say to you, if you have faith as a mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move; and nothing will be impossible for you. However, this kind does not go out except by prayer and fasting."

Jesus laid the inability of the disciples to cast out the demon at their unbelief. To be successful in casting out demons, there must be trust in the Lord God who has total authority over the demons.

Yes we all must have faith, that is clear and possible. If not possible, then Jesus would not have mentioned that we would do greater works than Him.

The faith that we must have is a faith that has more to do with what kind of faith it is than with how much faith there is. A small amount of faith ~ as much as a mustard seed (a very small seed) ~ can accomplish great things, if that small amount of faith is placed in a great and mighty God. :shades

Little faith can accomplish great things; but great faith can accomplish even greater things. What matters most is what our faith is in, the Greatness is in the OBJECT of our faith. Never in faith itself.

Yes, so faith in WHAT God says is a good thing. When God says you WERE healed, do you believe you WERE healed, or do you wait for your eyes to see the healing? Do you want to see everything like Thomas, or is God good on His Word alone?

In His name, by His will, I can accomplish ALL things. :amen bonnie

Amen, all things are possible to him that believe. Even health.

We have to rethink our doctrines because many of what we have been taught disagrees with the Bible.

blessings
C

 

[sheshisown]

Dearest Brother~ :waving

In today's culture, in America, I find there are many more people willing to jump on the HUGE bandwagon of faith in faith, rather than the very small band wagon of faith by sight. Most American's know that faith requires belief without tangible proof. :yes Perhaps it is different in your country?

Certainly, there are always those who doubt, but we are not to exhort or rebuke them for doubting, but train them and help them learn to excercise their spiritual faith muscles! Weak Christains rarely bring in erronous doctrines, though they may cling to them in error. Rather it is the strong minded who most often are sheep shearers, those who can talk circles around others... like me sometimes...

Lazarus was absolutely dead, four days his body laid wrapped in grave clothes rotting and stinking. That is not a blip... His family members had given up hope for his return though Jesus sought to stir the faith of both his sisters. His death and resurrection so close to our Lord's was a test to prepare them for Jesus' Resurrection very soon afterwards. :nod

We cannot tell people to look to this biblical story of death and the call of Christ from the tomb, to make peace with being sick? Hmmm..... perhaps. But what of the Hebrews chapter 11 hall of faith? These are people who did not see the work of God in this life, yet they believed.

:infinity Hebrews 11:35-40 Women received their dead raised to life again. Others were tortured, not accepting deliverance, that they might obtain a better resurrection. Still others had trial of mockings and scourgings, yes, and of chains and imprisonment. They were stoned, they were sawn in two, were tempted, were slain with the sword. They wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins, being destitute, afflicted, tormented-- of whom the world was not worthy. They wandered in deserts and mountains, in dens and caves of the earth. And all these, having obtained a good testimony through faith, did not receive the promise, God having provided something better for us, that they should not be made perfect apart from us.

What of the Christians whose living bodies were thrown to the lions, or John, boiled in oil, or Paul, beaten, ship-wreaked, imprisoned, hungry, cold, and even our Lord Jesus went without a home.


I find much joy in knowing that my mom's body will rise again... and be transformed into her glorious body!
I find much faith in trusting along-side my brothers and sisters, in this mighty cloud of witnesses to the power of God to keep His children in illness, in dying, in grave trials and persecutions. Many will enter heaven after having their heads cut off brother.

Yes, sickness is part of the curse, but so is toil, ought we to reject to labor by the sweat of our brows then? The curse will be removed~ when Christ returns my dear brother, we hope in that, and we trust Him to make us able to bear whatever He brings. And pray that Jesus will give us hearts like Job who said: "Though He slay me, yet will I trust Him." :

Lord make us strong in the innermost person, able to endure in faith until we meet You face to face. :shades
bonnie

 

[Cornelius]

Dearest Brother~ :waving

In today's culture, in America, I find there are many more people willing to jump on the HUGE bandwagon of faith in faith, rather than the very small band wagon of faith by sight. Most American's know that faith requires belief without tangible proof. :yes Perhaps it is different in your country?

Here we believe :Heb 11:1 Now faith is assurance of things hoped for, a conviction of things not seen.
Its never faith in faith, its faith in what God has promised, and alsoHeb 10:23 let us hold fast the confession of our hope that it waver not; for he is faithful that promised:

We also know that if we want to receive healing, (which is also a promise in 1Peter 2:24) .... Heb 6:12 that ye be not sluggish, but imitators of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.
So we stay in faith and add patience and then we inherit the promise.

Certainly, there are always those who doubt, but we are not to exhort or rebuke them for doubting, but train them and help them learn to excercise their spiritual faith muscles! Weak Christains rarely bring in erronous doctrines, though they may cling to them in error. Rather it is the strong minded who most often are sheep shearers, those who can talk circles around others... like me sometimes...

1Pe 4:11 if any man speaketh, speaking as it were oracles of God (the oracles of God is the Word )

Lazarus was absolutely dead, four days his body laid wrapped in grave clothes rotting and stinking. That is not a blip... His family members had given up hope for his return though Jesus sought to stir the faith of both his sisters. His death and resurrection so close to our Lord's was a test to prepare them for Jesus' Resurrection very soon afterwards. :nod

We cannot tell people to look to this biblical story of death and the call of Christ from the tomb, to make peace with being sick? Hmmm..... perhaps. But what of the Hebrews chapter 11 hall of faith? These are people who did not see the work of God in this life, yet they believed.

The difference is that the people in the hall of faith, did not preach that it was something to wait for until death. They are indeed in the hall of faith for doing the opposite ! Like believing God even if it did not come their way immediately. It did not come in some of their lives, because we all know that some of those promises were indeed meant for later. Not like healing, which is a benefit for God's redeemed.

Gal 3:13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us; for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: Unless you view sickness a blessing ?, Jesus redeemed you from the curse.

:infinity Hebrews 11:35-40 Women received their dead raised to life again. Others were tortured, not accepting deliverance, that they might obtain a better resurrection. Still others had trial of mockings and scourgings, yes, and of chains and imprisonment. They were stoned, they were sawn in two, were tempted, were slain with the sword. They wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins, being destitute, afflicted, tormented-- of whom the world was not worthy. They wandered in deserts and mountains, in dens and caves of the earth. And all these, having obtained a good testimony through faith, did not receive the promise, God having provided something better for us, that they should not be made perfect apart from us.
What of the Christians whose living bodies were thrown to the lions, or John, boiled in oil, or Paul, beaten, ship-wreaked, imprisoned, hungry, cold, and even our Lord Jesus went without a home.

Amen, and sickness is not on the list ! These are trails , where God wants us to be weak in, so that He can be strong in. Paul told about these buffeting of the flesh. 2Co 4:8 we are pressed on every side, yet not straitened; perplexed, yet not unto despair;
2Co 4:9 pursued, yet not forsaken; smitten down, yet not destroyed;
2Co 4:10 always bearing about in the body the dying of Jesus, that the life also of Jesus may be manifested in our body. You will notice that they came through and the life of Jesus was manifested. Sickness is not manifesting the life of Jesus, it manifests the curse.

I find much joy in knowing that my mom's body will rise again... and be transformed into her glorious body!
I find much faith in trusting along-side my brothers and sisters, in this mighty cloud of witnesses to the power of God to keep His children in illness, in dying, in grave trials and persecutions. Many will enter heaven after having their heads cut off brother.

Loosing our heads is a result that comes to those who did not die to self in this life. Not all will die, some will life victoriously through the tribulation. Some (those who did not die to self) are destined for the sword, because no flesh can enter the Kingdom. Some will have to enter through physical death (but not all) Rev 13:10 If any man is for captivity, into captivity he goeth: if any man shall kill with the sword, with the sword must he be killed. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
Again this is not talking about healing of the body, but the destiny of those Christians who lived in a certain way outside the Word.

Yes, sickness is part of the curse, but so is toil, ought we to reject to labor by the sweat of our brows then?

We do not have to "sweat of our brow" anymore , we now :Col 3:23 whatsoever ye do, work heartily, as unto the Lord, and not unto men; and Eph 6:5 Servants, be obedient unto them that according to the flesh are your masters, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ;
Eph 6:6 not in the way of eyeservice, as men-pleasers; but as servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart;
Eph 6:7 with good will doing service, as unto the Lord, and not unto men:

but see also, now God added this promise that will take care of those who believe this. Particularly in these time when people are loosing homes and jobs . So must really pray the curse has indeed been taken care of, because we are all going to need this promise NOW, in heaven it will be useless : Php 4:19 And my God shall supply every need of yours according to his riches in glory in Christ Jesus.

By the way, "every need" also includes healing.

The curse will be removed~ when Christ returns my dear brother, we hope in that, and we trust Him to make us able to bear whatever He brings. And pray that Jesus will give us hearts like Job who said: "Though He slay me, yet will I trust Him." : Lord make us strong in the innermost person, able to endure in faith until we meet You face to face. :shades
bonnie

Forgive me dear sister, but that is not Scriptural, although it sounds religious. Its really the opposite of the true gospel. It means you do not believe that Jesus indeed took the curse upon Himself for you IN THIS LIFE. The church has lied to you, as it has to many others.

Jer 12:10 Many shepherds have destroyed my vineyard, they have trodden my portion under foot, they have made my pleasant portion a desolate wilderness.
Jer 12:11 They have made it a desolation; it mourneth unto me, being desolate; the whole land is made desolate, because no man layeth it to heart.

 

[Relic]

.

[all emphasis in bold mine]

The Lord God wants us to experience heaven on earth. (spiritual/heaven made manifest in the material/earth )

Medicine does a good.

Exerpt:

Proverbs 17:22
A merry heart doeth good like a medicine: ...

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On earth as it is in heaven. (earth is the spiritual made manifest in the material) Hence, thy kingdom come, they will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. (spiritual made manifest made manifest in the material... this day... daily)

Exerpt:

Matthew 6:9-13
They Kingdom come,
Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread. ...

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In heaven.... tree of life - leaves are for the healing for the nations. (Now keep in mind The Lords Prayer.... "they Kingdom come, they will be done on earth as it is in heaven, Give us this day, our daily bread..." Daily bread = provision, daily, this day. )

Exerpt:

Revelation 22:2
... the leaves on the tree of life were for the healing of the nations.

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Exerpt:

Matthew 10:7
And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.

The Kingdom IS at hand, not was, not will be, but IS.

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The leaves are for the healing of the nations. (Medicine)

They kingdome come, they will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.


Never give up the HOPE, KEEP THE FAITH, IT WILL BE DONE, IT IS DONE. One thousand is like one day to the Lord. Time is not ours to judge as if it were not so, but as if it is done. Our earthly eyes see only the glimpse of what is, what was, and what is to come as being already done, made manifest in the material/on earth as it is in heaven.

Now go take your medicine (good medicine/not the junk stuff) , and do not take too much or too little. A daily dose will do just fine. Spiritual/heaven made manifest in the material/earth... Heaven on earth.... God knows it is already done. There is no new thing under the sun.... What was will be, still. :yes

.

 

[Cornelius]

Thank you relic

C