is it always the devil?

[JLB]

We've had this conversation many times, and obviously see differently. I do not view the evil present with me or any person as themselves, but an inhabitation of the spirit of disobedience in the flesh. Most believers will claim they do not engage the spirit of disobedience in their own flesh/mind/heart.

I just happen to know better, from experience and believing Gods Words on these matters. But I, like you, for a long enough time, thought the same way. It was not until I saw that adverse thoughts were not from me, did I recognize the reality of Gods Words in the conveyances of these matters of our adversary.

Everyone engages evil present in their own minds. It is not an option. And since this working is not forensic and not a "material" fact that can be scientifically proven, then it moves to the realm of "disobedient spirits." This is what the Word of God tells us.

There is not a man of us who doesn't excuse "adulterous" thoughts. We blindly think that if we do not "act" on them or entertain them, then we're OK with Jesus.

That's NOT how God in Christ sees it. It is an action of evil present with us, of sin dwelling in our flesh. And these things remain under the condemnation of God in Christ, even if not acted upon or entertained.

Believers just don't care to face this fact, and instead, cover it up, falsely thinking God doesn't know every thought we've ever had. Even before we have them.

Yes we see things differently.

Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you. James 4:7

We have been given authority over the devil and his emissary's, as we have this glorious treasure of Christ within our body, as His temple.

But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellence of the power may be of God and not of us. 2 Corinthians 4:7

19 Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spiritwho is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own? 20 For you were bought at a price; therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God’s. 1 Corinthians 6:19-20


14 Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness? 15 And what accord has Christ with Belial? Or what part has a believer with an unbeliever? 16 And what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For you are the temple of the living God. As God has said:

“I will dwell in them
And walk among them.
I will be their God,
And they shall be My people.”
2 Corinthians 6:14-16

and again

We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him. 1 John 5:18

Unlike the unbelievers, we are set apart unto God, as our body is the Temple of God.


JLB

 

[smaller]

And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, Ephesians 2:1-2

The scripture says the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience.

It does not say the "spirit of disobedience".

JLB

We can claim anything we want to about the evil present with us and the sin dwelling in our flesh. I can not honestly claim these things to be obedient, because they are not. They are in fact condemned. Romans 8:3.

I accept Christ's condemnation of these workings. Not really interested in giving Jesus excuses (or denials or coverups) for what He condemns.

 

[JLB]

We can claim anything we want to about the evil present with us and the sin dwelling in our flesh. I can not honestly claim these things to be obedient, because they are not. They are in fact condemned. Romans 8:3.

I accept Christ's condemnation of these workings. Not really interested in giving Jesus excuses (or denials or coverups) for what He condemns.

I'm referring to what you said from Ephesians 2.

Here is the scripture, written out to examine.

And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, Ephesians 2:1-2

The scripture says the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience.

It does not say the "spirit of disobedience".

It also says... in which you once walked according to the course of this world.

This spirit is said to work in the sons of disobedience, not the sons of God, those who have been given the Holy Spirit, and are the Temple of God.

Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you. James 4:7

We have been given authority over the devil and his emissary's, as we have this glorious treasure of Christ within our body, as His temple.

But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellence of the power may be of God and not of us. 2 Corinthians 4:7

19 Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spiritwho is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own? 20 For you were bought at a price; therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God’s. 1 Corinthians 6:19-20


14 Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness? 15 And what accord has Christ with Belial? Or what part has a believer with an unbeliever? 16 And what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For you are the temple of the living God. As God has said:

“I will dwell in them
And walk among them.
I will be their God,
And they shall be My people.”
2 Corinthians 6:14-16

and again

We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him.1 John 5:18

Unlike the unbelievers, we are set apart unto God, as our body is the Temple of God.



JLB

 

[Edward]

I did do it, it's my fault. As a result of the Sin nature? What can we trace it back to?

The original sin in Eden.

 

[smaller]

Unlike the unbelievers, we are set apart unto God, as our body is the Temple of God.

IF we are following Jesus, IF we are following His Apostles, they will march us straight to the cross in this fashion:

Romans 8:
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

To walk in/with Christ within us, is to walk in condemnation of indwelling sin and evil present with us, in our own flesh. Just as Jesus did/does with sinners (excepting Himself, while in flesh). Just as the Apostles did "for themselves" and their own flesh. They TOOK His CONDEMNATION to their own flesh.

Those believers who do so, FEW as they are, will be rewarded with understandings:

Luke 14:26
If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

John 12:25
He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.

Far be it from me to convince anyone that Jesus condemns indwelling sin in the flesh and evil present with us. It has never been otherwise with God in Christ. There is no argument to be had. Not any legitimate argument anyway.

Believers are just not used to seeing themselves as condemned in the flesh because of the reality of indwelling sin and evil present, which is "spiritual disobedience." The reality doesn't change for any flesh. Gal. 5:17. People just don't care to hear about it, that's all. And that is courtesy of those adverse workings in the flesh, which actively, often times vehemently "resists" the disclosures of Gods Word.

 

[JLB]

IF we are following Jesus, IF we are following His Apostles, they will march us straight to the cross in this fashion:

Romans 8:
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

To walk in/with Christ within us, is to walk in condemnation of indwelling sin and evil present with us, in our own flesh. Just as Jesus did/does with sinners (excepting Himself, while in flesh). Just as the Apostles did "for themselves" and their own flesh. They TOOK His CONDEMNATION to their own flesh.

Those believers who do so, FEW as they are, will be rewarded with understandings:

Luke 14:26
If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

John 12:25
He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.

Far be it from me to convince anyone that Jesus condemns indwelling sin in the flesh and evil present with us. It has never been otherwise with God in Christ. There is no argument to be had. Not any legitimate argument anyway.

Believers are just not used to seeing themselves as condemned in the flesh because of the reality of indwelling sin and evil present, which is "spiritual disobedience." The reality doesn't change for any flesh. Gal. 5:17. People just don't care to hear about it, that's all. And that is courtesy of those adverse workings in the flesh, which actively, often times vehemently "resists" the disclosures of Gods Word.

Unlike the unbelievers, we are set apart unto God, as our body is the Temple of God.

Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you. James 4:7

We have been given authority over the devil and his emissary's, as we have this glorious treasure of Christ within our body, as His temple.

But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellence of the power may be of God and not of us. 2 Corinthians 4:7

19 Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own? 20 For you were bought at a price; therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God’s. 1 Corinthians 6:19-20


Our body is the Temple of God.

We are to present ourself to God as alive from the dead.

And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. Romans 6:13


..but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.


JLB

 

[smaller]

The Spirit of Christ will tell us a couple things about indwelling sin and evil present. Firstly, it's not us as Gods children. Romans 7:17-21.

And secondly, The Spirit of Christ will not lie and say we don't have indwelling sin in the flesh and evil present with to deal with. Gal. 5:17.

Romans 13:
12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.

In case anyone wonders where "works of darkness" stems from, have a look:

Acts 26:18
To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

Psalm 112:4
Unto the upright there ariseth light in the darkness: he is gracious, and full of compassion, and righteous.

Psalm 143:3
For the enemy hath persecuted my soul; he hath smitten my life down to the ground; he hath made me to dwell in darkness, as those that have been long dead.

Isaiah 29:18
And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

 

[JohnDB]

the devil is behind it but to say i/ we did not do it .then the devil has full control over us .. all this does not mean we are not the righteous of Christ. I'm as pure as the driven snow.

I think that you missed the facetious nature in my post.

 

[JLB]

Acts 26:18
To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

Yes.

Now that we are turned from darkness we have authority over the devil.

Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you. James 4:7

The Spirit of Christ will tell us a couple things about indwelling sin and evil present. Firstly, it's not us as Gods children. Romans 7:17-21.

Yes, here is what the Holy Spirit says to us...

Those who by the Spirit, put to death the deeds of the flesh will live. [eternal life]

...if you live according to the flesh you will die. [eternal death]
Romans 8:13


The Spirit also says - Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? Romans 6:16

and again He says - For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness. Romans 6:19


JLB

 

[JLB]

And secondly, The Spirit of Christ will not lie and say we don't have indwelling sin in the flesh and evil present with to deal with. Gal. 5:17.

Yes, here is what the Spirit of Christ says...I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.

and again

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Galatians 5:19-21


The Spirit of Christ does not lie.

...since you seek a proof of Christ speaking in me. 2 Corinthians 13:3



JLB