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is it ever ok to abort a baby

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jgredline

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Having had another discussion on a differant thread the issue of abortion came up. I thought it would be a good idea to give this its own thread. Seeing there are some people who actually believe it to be ok under certain circumstances to abort a baby. OK, lets hear your opinions.
Is it ever ok to abort a baby?
When is a baby a baby?
 
My opinion is that as the fetus grows, it gains more rights. So to me it is about establishing the rate it gains rights as it becomes more human. So in the first trimester, I think the woman should do whatever she likes.

By the end of the second trimester, abortion should be possible for reasons greater than just a desire such as birth defects, very young mother (like 11 years old), or other problems.

Before birth, it should only happen to save the mother's life or if the baby will be severly deformed.

Quath
 
I have held a view in the past that it could be justified if the life of the mother was at risk. I changed this view when I started looking more into my own thoughts. If you accept the word of the doctor that the mother may or will die if she delivers/carrys a child full term then you are not putting faith into God. Honestly, my wife and I would never have an abortion for any reason and I don't think that abortion is ever right but I'm not going to go out and blow up any abortion clinics any time soon either.
 
Quath said:
...it gains rights as it becomes more human...
Quath

Wow. So in your opinion ...when does it become human enough to call killing it murder? What happens before and after that line is crossed that makes this less than human thingy become all human?
baby2.gif
 
Rob said:
I have held a view in the past that it could be justified if the life of the mother was at risk. I changed this view when I started looking more into my own thoughts. If you accept the word of the doctor that the mother may or will die if she delivers/carrys a child full term then you are not putting faith into God. Honestly, my wife and I would never have an abortion for any reason and I don't think that abortion is ever right but I'm not going to go out and blow up any abortion clinics any time soon either.

You would have your wife gamble with her life because you don't trust a doctor's knowledgability on the subject?

To the OP, yes I do believe it can be justifiable to have an abortion. I consider a 'baby' to be a baby around the end of the first trimester when it becomes a fetus.
 
when the mother is at risk, when other babies in the whomb are at risk, rape victims, or when the baby is going to be born severly disabled.....

the "I didnt think it would happen" is not a good excuse.
 
peace4all said:
when the mother is at risk, when other babies in the whomb are at risk, rape victims, or when the baby is going to be born severly disabled.....

the "I didnt think it would happen" is not a good excuse.

peace4all,
My birth mother was a rape victim ~ A teenager pregnant with triplets. I was born deformed and disabled...
what would you do with me now?

:lilangel:
God knows my name. Jesus loves me.
 
Gabbylittleangel said:
peace4all,
My birth mother was a rape victim ~ A teenager pregnant with triplets. I was born deformed and disabled...
what would you do with me now?

:lilangel:
God knows my name. Jesus loves me.
You're a keeper in God's eyes as well as your friends and loved ones. An innocent victim (fetus) of a rape should not, ever suffer due to the wrongdoings of the offender (the rapist). That is just illogical.

In the case of the mother's health or life, that's a tough one for me. I would get a few medical opinions and trust that God IS speaking to me through his servants, the doctors. I don't necessarily condone abortions, but dread the possibility of a child, or children, being left motherless.

I'd have to put it in Gods' hands and give it much prayerful consideration.
 
It amazes me how some people could justify the killing of babies.

Ps 139:13-16
13 For You formed my inward parts;
You covered me in my mother’s womb.
14 I will praise You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
Marvelous are Your works,
And that my soul knows very well.
15 My frame was not hidden from You,
When I was made in secret,
And skillfully wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.
16 Your eyes saw my substance, being yet unformed.
And in Your book they all were written,
The days fashioned for me,
When as yet there were none of them.
The New King James Version. 1982 (Ps 139:13-16). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.

5 “And now the Lord says,
Who formed Me from the womb to be His Servant,
To bring Jacob back to Him,
So that Israel is gathered to Him
(For I shall be glorious in the eyes of the Lord,
And My God shall be My strength),
The New King James Version. 1982 (Is 49:5)

41 And it happened, when Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, that the babe leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. 42 Then she spoke out with a loud voice and said, “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb! 43 But why is this granted to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? 44 For indeed, as soon as the voice of your greeting sounded in my ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy.
The New King James Version. 1982 (Lk 1:41-44).

Here are just a few of the dozens and dozens of verses I can post in regards to this. As soon as the spearm and egg are joined together, you have a baby being formed in the womb. If that were not the case none of us, no not one would be here typing away right now. God knew you before you were formed even before the foundation of the world.
 
jgredline said:
It amazes me how some people could justify the killing of babies.

I try to not let my morals get in the way of doing what's right.
 
Gabbylittleangel said:
peace4all said:
when the mother is at risk, when other babies in the whomb are at risk, rape victims, or when the baby is going to be born severly disabled.....

the "I didnt think it would happen" is not a good excuse.

peace4all,
My birth mother was a rape victim ~ A teenager pregnant with triplets. I was born deformed and disabled...
what would you do with me now?

The exact same thing that anyone does with any baby that's born. Roe v Wade did not enforce a requirement for abortions to occur it simply removed the bureaucracy from making the health choice for the mother.
 
Your mother made a decision, and it luckily came out for the better.

I have volunteered and worked with MR and DD adults/children, and heard of the stories that their brothers and sisters have lived horrible and short lives, because of the disabilities, how they have family members in severe pain, and how some of them themselves suffer every day.

ohh and speaking of passages where the bible doesnt support the murder of children


From there Elisha went up to Bethel. While he was on his way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him. "Go up baldhead," they shouted, "go up baldhead!" The prophet turned and saw them, and he cursed them in the name of the Lord. Then two shebears came out of the woods and tore forty two of the children to pieces. (2 Kings 2:23-24 NAB)

Make ready to slaughter his sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants. (Isaiah 14:21 NAB)

The glory of Israel will fly away like a bird, for your children will die at birth or perish in the womb or never even be conceived. Even if your children do survive to grow up, I will take them from you. It will be a terrible day when I turn away and leave you alone. I have watched Israel become as beautiful and pleasant as Tyre. But now Israel will bring out her children to be slaughtered." O LORD, what should I request for your people? I will ask for wombs that don't give birth and breasts that give no milk. The LORD says, "All their wickedness began at Gilgal; there I began to hate them. I will drive them from my land because of their evil actions. I will love them no more because all their leaders are rebels. The people of Israel are stricken. Their roots are dried up; they will bear no more fruit. And if they give birth, I will slaughter their beloved children." (Hosea 9:11-16 NLT)

"Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin your task right here at the Temple." So they began by killing the seventy leaders. "Defile the Temple!" the LORD commanded. "Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill! Go!" So they went throughout the city and did as they were told." (Ezekiel 9:5-7 NLT)

And at midnight the LORD killed all the firstborn sons in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn son of the captive in the dungeon. Even the firstborn of their livestock were killed. Pharaoh and his officials and all the people of Egypt woke up during the night, and loud wailing was heard throughout the land of Egypt. There was not a single house where someone had not died. (Exodus 12:29-30 NLT)

If even then you remain hostile toward me and refuse to obey, I will inflict you with seven more disasters for your sins. I will release wild animals that will kill your children and destroy your cattle, so your numbers will dwindle and your roads will be deserted. (Leviticus 26:21-22 NLT)

Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children. (Isaiah 13:15-18 NLT)

This is what the Lord of hosts has to say: 'I will punish what Amalek did to Israel when he barred his way as he was coming up from Egypt. Go, now, attack Amalek, and deal with him and all that he has under the ban. Do not spare him, but kill men and women, children and infants, oxen and sheep, camels and asses.' (1 Samuel 15:2-3 NAB)

Psalm 137:8 O daughter of Babylon, who art to be destroyed; happy shall he be, that rewardeth thee as thou hast served us. 9 Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.

and of course, more.. but, you can read the bible for yourself :-P
 
Gabby
Praise the Lord Jesus Christ for your mother who inspite of what would be percieved as bad by the world is Good in that she made the choice to keep you. Regardless of how you came to be, you'r here now proclaiming the truth of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

When my wife and I planned our second child we were both young and excited.
happy as clams. At about the third month during the ultrasound the doctor saw something abnormal so he ordered blood test. When the test came back he said and I forgot what the termenolgy is but something in her blood was extremly high and he said at that point that there is a good chance the baby will be deformed and down syndrome. He suggested that we consider an abortion, because we were still young and could have another baby. He said he could tell unconditionally by doing an amniosynthesis.. But there was also a very high possibility of a misscarige and he even told us this would be a way out so we would not feel guilty about it. We decided to get a second opinion and we basically got the same diagnosis at a differant hospital. We decided very quickly ( we did not even pray about it ) that if this was the case and this was the baby GOD chose to give us, then so be it. From that moment on we had to be in the hospital every 2 weeks for check ups and up until the 8th month they were still trying to talk us into an abortion. By this time and I will ask my wife for the ultra sounds and I will post them, there was no dought this baby was going to be as one of the nurses said '' I don't know who is more retarded, the parents or the baby''.. She said it loud enough for people to get a laugh and when they realized we heard them, they just said sorry. Anyway they decided to enduce labor because the baby was getting to big and the head in particular was huge as is normal for down syndrome babies as they are mongoliod. They set up a special opperation room with specialist and all the while our church was praying for us and when the time came to give birth, the LORD blessed us with a perfectly formed baby girl. She came out normal. I will never ever forget the look on the doctors and nurses faces when Krisanie Grace came out. She is now 18 years old and expecting a baby. My first Grandson and I can't wait.
When we look back and look at the sonograms and medical reports we praise God for he saw our hearts and gave us a healthy baby. In my Church we have a special class with about 30 preciouse people that are all down syndrome. We love them very much and have a great appreciation for these wonderful people and the people who teach them.
I will get off my soap box for now, but there is NEVER a reason to murder a child. Adoption is always a choice.
Jg
 
Peace
First you took all those verses out of context. Second atleast you don't claim to be a Christian. I will give you that as an excuse for your heretical way of thinking. With out the Holy spirit, you will never understand.
 
jgredline said:
moniker said:
jgredline said:
It amazes me how some people could justify the killing of babies.

I try to not let my morals get in the way of doing what's right.

Moniker.
What morals?? Its obviouse you don't have any in regards to this.

Nice to see you woke up this morning as clean as god's fingers and capable of passing on His judgement. As well as missing the inherent joke in a statement like that.
 
moniker said:
You would have your wife gamble with her life because you don't trust a doctor's knowledgability on the subject?

No, my wife and I together have discussed this issue and have come to the conclusion that we do not have the right to decide who's life was more important if this subject ever came up. That right is God's and God's alone.
 
moniker said:
jgredline said:
moniker said:
jgredline said:
It amazes me how some people could justify the killing of babies.

I try to not let my morals get in the way of doing what's right.

Moniker.
What morals?? Its obviouse you don't have any in regards to this.

Nice to see you woke up this morning as clean as god's fingers and capable of passing on His judgement. As well as missing the inherent joke in a statement like that.

Liberal response #1 '' your judging me''
Get over it. Defend yourself with scriptures.
 
jgredline said:
Liberal response #1 '' your judging me''
Get over it. Defend yourself with scriptures.

One life is lost regardless of the actions taken. Who am I or the state to decide such a personal matter for another?

Thanks for the ad-hom nonsequitor to justify your earlier ad-hom by the by.
 
Rob said:
moniker said:
You would have your wife gamble with her life because you don't trust a doctor's knowledgability on the subject?

No, my wife and I together have discussed this issue and have come to the conclusion that we do not have the right to decide who's life was more important if this subject ever came up. That right is God's and God's alone.

Rob
The bible teaches that it is apponited on to man once to die and then the Judgement. The fact that you and your wife answered in the way you did speaks volumes of you both and its great to see / read.
practicing your faith is pleasing to the LORD.
Blessings to you both
Jg
 

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