Is It Possible For A Christian To Fall From "Grace"?

[Jethro Bodine]

He didn't condemn the Mormons as a cult. He clarifies this statement in a later interview with Oprah. He said that Jesus was the only way to the Lord but there were many ways to get to Jesus.

What an awesome answer.
I personally have Ted Armstrong to thank for helping me get to Jesus. I understand that later, on his death bed, he did realize he had been wrong, and the entire movement got turned around.

 

[bluegirl]

Dear one, precious sister, when I first read your post I thought, she's right and I asked myself why, what's the use?

First may I respond to what you have inferred as human logic, it's not human logic, it's wisdom taught to God's children by the Holy Spirit 1 Jn 2:27, it's understanding Old Testament prophesy about our Lord, over 300 prophesy's about the birth, life, death and resurrection of Jesus, ...and he fulfilled every one of them, I humbly ask in brotherly love, ...how many of the 300 do you know and understand, this isn't a put down, it's meant as an encouragement to cause you search the Scriptures and grow in the grace and the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ, to study to show yourself approved so that you will not be deceived and will be able to teach others.

As to the why?

We are indebted to the Jewish scribes for their perseverance and fidelity in preserving the Word of God of the Old Testament pure and undefiled for us, you and me personally, we hold in our hands the actual Word of God as spoken and inspired by the Holy Spirit to the Old Testament writers.

Let me explain, the Jews used their alphabet to count with, i.e., a=1, b=2, c=3, etc. (using English as an example), when they would copy a scroll they added up the sum of the letters and if the sum was not the same as the original they didn't look for the error, they burned the scroll, ...it's recorded a scribe was so familiar with his work he could pass a needle through the scroll and tell us what letter had been pierced by the needle, ...a requirement for requiting new scribes.

We know from the discovery of the Qumran Scrolls in the '40s and a practically complete scroll of the Book of Isaiah, when compared to the original texts our Bibles have been translated from, they were identical.

With that in mind, we, you and me, this generation, have been passed the torch to continue to keep the Word of God pure and unadulterated for the next generation. The enemy of our souls is also the enemy of the Word of God and he has been trying to change, add to or take from what God has said since his encounter with the first human in the Garden, here is the admonition and warning Paul has left us,

But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him. 2Co 11:3, 4
For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works. 2Co 11:13-15

I'll let Jesus himself and the writers of the New Testament tell you why,

Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Mat 7:15

And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. Mat 24:3, 4

And from Miletus he (Paul) sent to Ephesus, and called the elders of the church. Act 20:17
For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God. Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears. Act 20:27-31

Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. Rom 16:17

For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you. 1Co 11:18, 19

For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ. 2Co 2:17

That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; Eph 4:14

Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. Col 2:8

Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; 1Ti 4:1, 2

But refuse profane and old wives' fables, and exercise thyself rather unto godliness. 1Ti 4:7

Dear one I congratulate you if you have made it this far, do you see what Paul has said to us, a Friday crucifixion is profane and an old wives' fable perpetrated and perpetuated by the RCC and is refuted by both the Old and New Testaments.

I serve my Lord and His Church to hear Him say, Well done, good and faithful servant, ...and that, my beloved sister, is my heartfelt desire for you to receive the same approbation.

Blessing in His Love

Karl you have my ear. So what book and verse says crucifixions cannot be on Fridays. I will read it. And you are right that being new I don't have every verse at my fingertips.

 

[Deborah13]

What an awesome answer.
I personally have Ted Armstrong to thank for helping me get to Jesus. I understand that later, on his death bed, he did realize he had been wrong, and the entire movement got turned around.

God works in mysterious ways? :yes

 

[JLB]

Larry King interview when Larry asked him about Mormons. King's wife is Mormon and Mitt Romney was running for President. There was an up roar. He didn't condemn the Mormons as a cult. He clarifies this statement in a later interview with Oprah. He said that Jesus was the only way to the Lord but there were many ways to get to Jesus. She asked him if homosexuality was sin and you could see him struggle with how to say yes without offending but he said, yes he believes it is.
I agree with him when I read testimonies of people who have rejected Mormonism after many years of being in it. The Lord can work with people in all kinds of ways to lead them to Him even through other religions.
That is how I understood what he was trying to say without offending anyone. He may have been too meek in his attempt not to appear the arrogant Christian, trying to respect where they are and trust the Lord with the rest. :neutral
My opinion is that he is a very gentle and mild man and it is very hard for him to say anything that is hurtful.

Well said Deb.

 

[Karl]

Karl you have my ear. So what book and verse says crucifixions cannot be on Fridays. I will read it. And you are right that being new I don't have every verse at my fingertips.

The first thing is how do we determine it's the Holy Spirit talking to us or other voices, human or demonic?

That is taught to us in 1 John,

But the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as His anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true and no lie, and as He has taught you, abide in Him. 1Jn 2:27 KJV

Here's the same verse in modern English,

But the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as His anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true and no lie, and as He has taught you, abide in Him. 1Jn 2:27 ERV

What that means is the Holy Spirit is our teacher and He teaches us through His Gift of Teaching that He has given to someone in the Church, when the Gift of Teaching is in operation the Holy Spirit will be confirming it in our spirit, He will be say to us, "it's true, it's true, if the teaching is just a man's opinions or false teaching then the Holy Spirit will be telling our spirit that it's a lie and not of Him, this you already have experienced, the Holy Spirit has taught you that Jesus is God, before you were taught you never had that conviction, but now you own that Truth and nobody can take it from you, so will it be with everything the Holy Spirit teaches you.That's why it's so important to not listen to just anybody or anything, because if we learn something that is not true it's really hard to unlearn, ...one of the most important Scriptures to memorize and appropriate into your life is,


And these (the Bereans) were more noble than those of Thessalonica, in that they received the Word with all readiness of mind and searched the Scriptures daily to see if those things were so. Act 17:11

That means checkout what you are hearing in the Word and that goes along with the Holy Spirit teaching, when it's of Him there will never be doubt and no other verse (s) will contradict it.

If it's just opinions or false teaching there will be doubt and there will always be verses in Scripture that contradict.

Okay, Jesus was crucified on Thursday.....,

Old Testament, the Passover instituted by God,

In the fourteenth day of the first month, between the evenings, is Jehovah's Passover, Lev 23:5

The details given to Moses in Exodus,

This month shall be to you the beginning of months. It shall be the first month of the year to you. Speak to all the congregation of Israel, saying, In the tenth of this month they shall take to them each man a lamb for a father's house, a lamb for a house. Exo 12:2, 3
Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year. Exo 12:5

The Children of Israel were commanded to chose a lamb on the 10th of the month and they were to inspect it for four days to make certain it was without blemish.

And you shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month. And the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening. Exo 12:6

The sacrificial lamb was be killed on the fourteenth day.


New Testament Passover and the Crucifixion of Jesus.

When Jesus finished teaching in Galilee He left Mat 19:1 and John tells us He went to Bethany, ...about a 60 mile walk.

He arrived in Bethany six days before the Passover John 12:1.
He presented Himself as Messiah-King John 12:13, according to OT prophecy that had to be the 10th day of the month.
Four days later the lamb was to be sacrificed according to OT prophecy.

If Jesus presented Himself as Messiah-King on Sunday, the first day of the week, then Monday was day two, Tuesday was day three and Wednesday was day four, the fourteenth of the month, Jewish days are counted from sunset to sunset, evening and morning, then the last supper was Wednesday night and the crucifixion was Thursday afternoon on the fourteenth day of the month.

However in all fairness let's check the math with what the Holy Spirit has given us, ...Jesus arrived in Bethany six days before the Passover,

If Jesus arrived in Bethany on
Thursday day 1,
Friday day 2,
Saturday day 3,
Sunday day 4,
Monday day 5,
Tuesday day 6, the Last Supper would of been on Tuesday night and the Crucifixion on (our) Wednesday afternoon,
Wednesday night -1
Thursday night -2
Friday night - 3
Saturday night -4

But Jesus said 3 nights, not 4

If Jesus arrived in Bethany on
Saturday day 1,
Sunday day 2,
Monday day 3,
Tuesday day 4,
Wednesday day 5
Thursday day 6, the Last Supper would of been on Thursday night and the Crucifixion on (our) Friday afternoon,

Friday night - 1
Saturday night -2

But Jesus said 3 nights, not 2


If Jesus arrived in Bethany on
Friday day 1,
Saturday day 2,
Sunday day 3,
Monday day 4,
Tuesday day 5,
Wednesday day 6, ...the Last Supper would of been on Wednesday night and the Crucifixion on (our) Thursday afternoon,

Thursday night -1
Friday night - 2
Saturday night -3

Jesus said three nights and it's the only scenario that checks out mathematically and Scripture affirms.

There you go beloved, a Thursday afternoon crucifixion as stated in the Old and New Testaments.

Blessings

 

[Cturtle]

Dear one, I agree we are never tempted by our Heavenly Father, what I don't understand is why you tagged my post with the verses from James, maybe you could explain your thoughts on this?

Blessings

Because brother Karl, i appreciate how much time that you put into preparing and studying for each response and i wanted to put a verse to what you spoke. It's always good to let the Word speak. God does not send temptations, tests or trials our way. Those come from us opening the door to sin, and the enemy trying to trip us up. But God is so very gracious, that He makes sure that we have a way out when those things arise.
Blessings to you!

 

[Karl]

Thank you for the kind words, while I believe temptations and trials come from the devil and the world respectively, the Word clearly states we are tested by God, Jesus Himself was driven to the wilderness by God the Holy Spirit to be tested Mat 4:1 and Hebrews 11:17 tells us it was God that tested Abraham.

Like I said, Father tests us or allows us to be tested to show us where we are in our walk with Him of faith, it's like assaying gold to bring any impurities to the surface.

Blessings

 

[Cturtle]

Thank you for the kind words, while I believe temptations and trials come from the devil and the world respectively, the Word clearly states we are tested by God, Jesus Himself was driven to the wilderness by God the Holy Spirit to be tested Mat 4:1 and Hebrews 11:17 tells us it was God that tested Abraham.

Like I said, Father tests us or allows us to be tested to show us where we are in our walk with Him of faith, it's like assaying gold to bring any impurities to the surface.

Blessings

Thanks for pointing these verses out. I will be meditating upon them.
May the Lord richly Bless you in all ways, always.

 

[bluegirl]

The first thing is how do we determine it's the Holy Spirit talking to us or other voices, human or demonic?

That is taught to us in 1 John,

But the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as His anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true and no lie, and as He has taught you, abide in Him. 1Jn 2:27 KJV

Here's the same verse in modern English,

But the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as His anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true and no lie, and as He has taught you, abide in Him. 1Jn 2:27 ERV

What that means is the Holy Spirit is our teacher and He teaches us through His Gift of Teaching that He has given to someone in the Church, when the Gift of Teaching is in operation the Holy Spirit will be confirming it in our spirit, He will be say to us, "it's true, it's true, if the teaching is just a man's opinions or false teaching then the Holy Spirit will be telling our spirit that it's a lie and not of Him, this you already have experienced, the Holy Spirit has taught you that Jesus is God, before you were taught you never had that conviction, but now you own that Truth and nobody can take it from you, so will it be with everything the Holy Spirit teaches you.That's why it's so important to not listen to just anybody or anything, because if we learn something that is not true it's really hard to unlearn, ...one of the most important Scriptures to memorize and appropriate into your life is,


And these (the Bereans) were more noble than those of Thessalonica, in that they received the Word with all readiness of mind and searched the Scriptures daily to see if those things were so. Act 17:11

That means checkout what you are hearing in the Word and that goes along with the Holy Spirit teaching, when it's of Him there will never be doubt and no other verse (s) will contradict it.

If it's just opinions or false teaching there will be doubt and there will always be verses in Scripture that contradict.

Okay, Jesus was crucified on Thursday.....,

Old Testament, the Passover instituted by God,

In the fourteenth day of the first month, between the evenings, is Jehovah's Passover, Lev 23:5

The details given to Moses in Exodus,

This month shall be to you the beginning of months. It shall be the first month of the year to you. Speak to all the congregation of Israel, saying, In the tenth of this month they shall take to them each man a lamb for a father's house, a lamb for a house. Exo 12:2, 3
Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year. Exo 12:5

The Children of Israel were commanded to chose a lamb on the 10th of the month and they were to inspect it for four days to make certain it was without blemish.

And you shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month. And the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening. Exo 12:6

The sacrificial lamb was be killed on the fourteenth day.


New Testament Passover and the Crucifixion of Jesus.

When Jesus finished teaching in Galilee He left Mat 19:1 and John tells us He went to Bethany, ...about a 60 mile walk.

He arrived in Bethany six days before the Passover John 12:1.
He presented Himself as Messiah-King John 12:13, according to OT prophecy that had to be the 10th day of the month.
Four days later the lamb was to be sacrificed according to OT prophecy.

If Jesus presented Himself as Messiah-King on Sunday, the first day of the week, then Monday was day two, Tuesday was day three and Wednesday was day four, the fourteenth of the month, Jewish days are counted from sunset to sunset, evening and morning, then the last supper was Wednesday night and the crucifixion was Thursday afternoon on the fourteenth day of the month.

However in all fairness let's check the math with what the Holy Spirit has given us, ...Jesus arrived in Bethany six days before the Passover,

If Jesus arrived in Bethany on
Thursday day 1,
Friday day 2,
Saturday day 3,
Sunday day 4,
Monday day 5,
Tuesday day 6, the Last Supper would of been on Tuesday night and the Crucifixion on (our) Wednesday afternoon,
Wednesday night -1
Thursday night -2
Friday night - 3
Saturday night -4

But Jesus said 3 nights, not 4

If Jesus arrived in Bethany on
Saturday day 1,
Sunday day 2,
Monday day 3,
Tuesday day 4,
Wednesday day 5
Thursday day 6, the Last Supper would of been on Thursday night and the Crucifixion on (our) Friday afternoon,

Friday night - 1
Saturday night -2

But Jesus said 3 nights, not 2


If Jesus arrived in Bethany on
Friday day 1,
Saturday day 2,
Sunday day 3,
Monday day 4,
Tuesday day 5,
Wednesday day 6, ...the Last Supper would of been on Wednesday night and the Crucifixion on (our) Thursday afternoon,

Thursday night -1
Friday night - 2
Saturday night -3

Jesus said three nights and it's the only scenario that checks out mathematically and Scripture affirms.

There you go beloved, a Thursday afternoon crucifixion as stated in the Old and New Testaments.

Blessings

Thank you. I will reread but I guess I am into the inner teacher Jesus. I am not ready for human preachers. No mediators or human authorities. thanks about the Friday question. I don't know too much about gifts but I doubt Jesus is waiting to speak to me based on if a human is teaching me. I had that with the Catholics and I am done with it. So I do see that bit you typed about church teachers and I am sure that is wonderful. But why do I need that if I have Jesus. I don't have to have it. It's extra. Like dessert. It's not required for my salvation.

 

[bluegirl]

The first thing is how do we determine it's the Holy Spirit talking to us or other voices, human or demonic?

That is taught to us in 1 John,

But the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as His anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true and no lie, and as He has taught you, abide in Him. 1Jn 2:27 KJV

Here's the same verse in modern English,

But the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as His anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true and no lie, and as He has taught you, abide in Him. 1Jn 2:27 ERV

What that means is the Holy Spirit is our teacher and He teaches us through His Gift of Teaching that He has given to someone in the Church, when the Gift of Teaching is in operation the Holy Spirit will be confirming it in our spirit, He will be say to us, "it's true, it's true, if the teaching is just a man's opinions or false teaching then the Holy Spirit will be telling our spirit that it's a lie and not of Him, this you already have experienced, the Holy Spirit has taught you that Jesus is God, before you were taught you never had that conviction, but now you own that Truth and nobody can take it from you, so will it be with everything the Holy Spirit teaches you.That's why it's so important to not listen to just anybody or anything, because if we learn something that is not true it's really hard to unlearn, ...one of the most important Scriptures to memorize and appropriate into your life is,


And these (the Bereans) were more noble than those of Thessalonica, in that they received the Word with all readiness of mind and searched the Scriptures daily to see if those things were so. Act 17:11

That means checkout what you are hearing in the Word and that goes along with the Holy Spirit teaching, when it's of Him there will never be doubt and no other verse (s) will contradict it.

If it's just opinions or false teaching there will be doubt and there will always be verses in Scripture that contradict.

Okay, Jesus was crucified on Thursday.....,

Old Testament, the Passover instituted by God,

In the fourteenth day of the first month, between the evenings, is Jehovah's Passover, Lev 23:5

The details given to Moses in Exodus,

This month shall be to you the beginning of months. It shall be the first month of the year to you. Speak to all the congregation of Israel, saying, In the tenth of this month they shall take to them each man a lamb for a father's house, a lamb for a house. Exo 12:2, 3
Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year. Exo 12:5

The Children of Israel were commanded to chose a lamb on the 10th of the month and they were to inspect it for four days to make certain it was without blemish.

And you shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month. And the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening. Exo 12:6

The sacrificial lamb was be killed on the fourteenth day.


New Testament Passover and the Crucifixion of Jesus.

When Jesus finished teaching in Galilee He left Mat 19:1 and John tells us He went to Bethany, ...about a 60 mile walk.

He arrived in Bethany six days before the Passover John 12:1.
He presented Himself as Messiah-King John 12:13, according to OT prophecy that had to be the 10th day of the month.
Four days later the lamb was to be sacrificed according to OT prophecy.

If Jesus presented Himself as Messiah-King on Sunday, the first day of the week, then Monday was day two, Tuesday was day three and Wednesday was day four, the fourteenth of the month, Jewish days are counted from sunset to sunset, evening and morning, then the last supper was Wednesday night and the crucifixion was Thursday afternoon on the fourteenth day of the month.

However in all fairness let's check the math with what the Holy Spirit has given us, ...Jesus arrived in Bethany six days before the Passover,

If Jesus arrived in Bethany on
Thursday day 1,
Friday day 2,
Saturday day 3,
Sunday day 4,
Monday day 5,
Tuesday day 6, the Last Supper would of been on Tuesday night and the Crucifixion on (our) Wednesday afternoon,
Wednesday night -1
Thursday night -2
Friday night - 3
Saturday night -4

But Jesus said 3 nights, not 4

If Jesus arrived in Bethany on
Saturday day 1,
Sunday day 2,
Monday day 3,
Tuesday day 4,
Wednesday day 5
Thursday day 6, the Last Supper would of been on Thursday night and the Crucifixion on (our) Friday afternoon,

Friday night - 1
Saturday night -2

But Jesus said 3 nights, not 2


If Jesus arrived in Bethany on
Friday day 1,
Saturday day 2,
Sunday day 3,
Monday day 4,
Tuesday day 5,
Wednesday day 6, ...the Last Supper would of been on Wednesday night and the Crucifixion on (our) Thursday afternoon,

Thursday night -1
Friday night - 2
Saturday night -3

Jesus said three nights and it's the only scenario that checks out mathematically and Scripture affirms.

There you go beloved, a Thursday afternoon crucifixion as stated in the Old and New Testaments.

Blessings

Oh and one more thing. I guess after lots of years in academia I will leave the theological puzzles to you and others. I want to keep things simple and don't feel an urge to analyze scripture given that would resemble my day job. All I want is to pray, read the scripture, and try to live it. I have posted 1 commentary I wrote on my website. so not against interpretation or exegesis. Just taking a break from my own past sophistries and intellectual blathering to just be simple, pray and talk to, praise and be with the Lord. I lately see all the wonderful students of the bible and knowing as little as I do feel like a moron. So now I am just reading closely God's word. Hope I can catch up!!!

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

Oh and one more thing. I guess after lots of years in academia I will leave the theological puzzles to you and others. I want to keep things simple and don't feel an urge to analyze scripture given that would resemble my day job. All I want is to pray, read the scripture, and try to live it. I have posted 1 commentary I wrote on my website. so not against interpretation or exegesis. Just taking a break from my own past sophistries and intellectual blathering to just be simple, pray and talk to, praise and be with the Lord. I lately see all the wonderful students of the bible and knowing as little as I do feel like a moron. So now I am just reading closely God's word. Hope I can catch up!!!

I liked this post for everything but the "feeling like a moron part" Now that is stinken thinken sister. You are no moron BUT YOU ARE AND "EVEN AS" . You can find that in your reading !

Now for the theological part. I agree there is a time and a place for it, but it is not always receptive or needed.
Don't get me wrong here. I am in no way putting down any one with this type of understanding, especialy when the Lord gives you this ability.

 

[bluegirl]

I liked this post for everything but the "feeling like a moron part" Now that is stinken thinken sister. You are no moron BUT YOU ARE AND "EVEN AS" . You can find that in your reading !

Now for the theological part. I agree there is a time and a place for it, but it is not always receptive or needed.
Don't get me wrong here. I am in no way putting down any one with this type of understanding, especialy when the Lord gives you this ability.

Can you start me on an even as passage.

 

[bluegirl]

I liked this post for everything but the "feeling like a moron part" Now that is stinken thinken sister. You are no moron BUT YOU ARE AND "EVEN AS" . You can find that in your reading !

Now for the theological part. I agree there is a time and a place for it, but it is not always receptive or needed.
Don't get me wrong here. I am in no way putting down any one with this type of understanding, especialy when the Lord gives you this ability.

I do have that ability but I decided to set it aside for now. I needed to let go of the security I felt in my own mental capacity and instead let go and let the Holy Spirit work. I tend to be highly self critical and also sensitive to attitudes of others and their criticism because of personal reasons. I am not sure how the Lord will sort out all that with me. But I think that for now it has a protective function to keep me away from false teachers since I am afraid to pay attention to things unless I read them for myself in the bible. The flaw there is that I could be missing a piece from some other passage. But by praying, keeping it humble and asking for the Lord's help I have faith I will grow and everything will work itself out.

 

[bluegirl]

I am sometimes worried that a person could be fallen from grace and not know it. If someone loves the Lord could they be unsaved because they fell down a previous time. So the scenario of this thread - they are saved supposedly, then fall hard. Then come back. So were they ever saved the first time? And are they this time? And if one loves Jesus and has faith could there be any way Jesus would not love back?
I think the answer is that if I love Jesus then the Holy Spirit must be working in me. Yes, Jesus loves me. And, that if it is a true conversion, I cannot fall from Grace. Then the question is so how do I distinguish a true conversion. I have thoughts on that but am interested in what others think.

 

[jphing]

I'm not 100% sure on this subject, but I'm guessing if one decides to reject God's gift of salvation and physically tells Him to get out of his life then maybe

Please correct me if I'm wrong

 

[JLB]

The first thing is how do we determine it's the Holy Spirit talking to us or other voices, human or demonic?

That is taught to us in 1 John,

But the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as His anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true and no lie, and as He has taught you, abide in Him. 1Jn 2:27 KJV

Here's the same verse in modern English,

But the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as His anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true and no lie, and as He has taught you, abide in Him. 1Jn 2:27 ERV

What that means is the Holy Spirit is our teacher and He teaches us through His Gift of Teaching that He has given to someone in the Church, when the Gift of Teaching is in operation the Holy Spirit will be confirming it in our spirit, He will be say to us, "it's true, it's true, if the teaching is just a man's opinions or false teaching then the Holy Spirit will be telling our spirit that it's a lie and not of Him, this you already have experienced, the Holy Spirit has taught you that Jesus is God, before you were taught you never had that conviction, but now you own that Truth and nobody can take it from you, so will it be with everything the Holy Spirit teaches you.That's why it's so important to not listen to just anybody or anything, because if we learn something that is not true it's really hard to unlearn, ...one of the most important Scriptures to memorize and appropriate into your life is,


And these (the Bereans) were more noble than those of Thessalonica, in that they received the Word with all readiness of mind and searched the Scriptures daily to see if those things were so. Act 17:11

That means checkout what you are hearing in the Word and that goes along with the Holy Spirit teaching, when it's of Him there will never be doubt and no other verse (s) will contradict it.

If it's just opinions or false teaching there will be doubt and there will always be verses in Scripture that contradict.

Okay, Jesus was crucified on Thursday.....,

Old Testament, the Passover instituted by God,

In the fourteenth day of the first month, between the evenings, is Jehovah's Passover, Lev 23:5

The details given to Moses in Exodus,

This month shall be to you the beginning of months. It shall be the first month of the year to you. Speak to all the congregation of Israel, saying, In the tenth of this month they shall take to them each man a lamb for a father's house, a lamb for a house. Exo 12:2, 3
Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year. Exo 12:5

The Children of Israel were commanded to chose a lamb on the 10th of the month and they were to inspect it for four days to make certain it was without blemish.

And you shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month. And the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening. Exo 12:6

The sacrificial lamb was be killed on the fourteenth day.


New Testament Passover and the Crucifixion of Jesus.

When Jesus finished teaching in Galilee He left Mat 19:1 and John tells us He went to Bethany, ...about a 60 mile walk.

He arrived in Bethany six days before the Passover John 12:1.
He presented Himself as Messiah-King John 12:13, according to OT prophecy that had to be the 10th day of the month.
Four days later the lamb was to be sacrificed according to OT prophecy.

If Jesus presented Himself as Messiah-King on Sunday, the first day of the week, then Monday was day two, Tuesday was day three and Wednesday was day four, the fourteenth of the month, Jewish days are counted from sunset to sunset, evening and morning, then the last supper was Wednesday night and the crucifixion was Thursday afternoon on the fourteenth day of the month.

However in all fairness let's check the math with what the Holy Spirit has given us, ...Jesus arrived in Bethany six days before the Passover,

If Jesus arrived in Bethany on
Thursday day 1,
Friday day 2,
Saturday day 3,
Sunday day 4,
Monday day 5,
Tuesday day 6, the Last Supper would of been on Tuesday night and the Crucifixion on (our) Wednesday afternoon,
Wednesday night -1
Thursday night -2
Friday night - 3
Saturday night -4

But Jesus said 3 nights, not 4

If Jesus arrived in Bethany on
Saturday day 1,
Sunday day 2,
Monday day 3,
Tuesday day 4,
Wednesday day 5
Thursday day 6, the Last Supper would of been on Thursday night and the Crucifixion on (our) Friday afternoon,

Friday night - 1
Saturday night -2

But Jesus said 3 nights, not 2


If Jesus arrived in Bethany on
Friday day 1,
Saturday day 2,
Sunday day 3,
Monday day 4,
Tuesday day 5,
Wednesday day 6, ...the Last Supper would of been on Wednesday night and the Crucifixion on (our) Thursday afternoon,

Thursday night -1
Friday night - 2
Saturday night -3

Jesus said three nights and it's the only scenario that checks out mathematically and Scripture affirms.

There you go beloved, a Thursday afternoon crucifixion as stated in the Old and New Testaments.

Blessings

Thursday afternoon is most defiantly not stated anywhere in the bible.

Jesus was crucified on the day before the Sabbath, as they were in a Preperation to get everything done before the evening of Friday which was the start of the Sabbath.

54 That day was the Preparation, and the Sabbath drew near. [Friday, the day of Preparation.]
55 And the women who had come with Him from Galilee followed after, and they observed the tomb and how His body was laid.
56 Then they returned and prepared spices and fragrant oils. And they rested on the Sabbath according to the commandment. [Saturday]
Luke 23:54-56

Now after the Sabbath, as the first day of the week began to dawn, [Sunday] Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to see the tomb.
Matthew 28:1


JLB

 

[JLB]

But by praying, keeping it humble and asking for the Lord's help I have faith I will grow and everything will work itself out

Beautiful words. :amen

 

[Mike S]

I do have that ability but I decided to set it aside for now. I needed to let go of the security I felt in my own mental capacity and instead let go and let the Holy Spirit work. I tend to be highly self critical and also sensitive to attitudes of others and their criticism because of personal reasons. I am not sure how the Lord will sort out all that with me. But I think that for now it has a protective function to keep me away from false teachers since I am afraid to pay attention to things unless I read them for myself in the bible. The flaw there is that I could be missing a piece from some other passage. But by praying, keeping it humble and asking for the Lord's help I have faith I will grow and everything will work itself out.

:yes:yes Working out our own salvation with fear and trembling.

 

[bluegirl]

What an awesome answer.
I personally have Ted Armstrong to thank for helping me get to Jesus. I understand that later, on his death bed, he did realize he had been wrong, and the entire movement got turned around.

What was wrong with Armstrong? If that belongs to another thread I understand.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

What was wrong with Armstrong? If that belongs to another thread I understand.

I don't remember, lol.