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gr8grace3 said:
And Deb, I am talking the ultimate outcome of this whole thing. God Does Not Like most of what we do but He allows it.
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Wow, I am having a bad week, to distracted and not feeling well. BUT that is not an excuse for not reading more carefully and I should have known better with you.
I owe you a huge apology!! I apologize gr8grace!
I did not read your post correctly, now I read it again and see that I read it without comprehending that 'And' with a capital A A A.
Please forgive me. :sad
 
Deborah13 said:
Wow, I am having a bad week, to distracted and not feeling well. BUT that is not an excuse for not reading more carefully and I should have known better with you.
I owe you a huge apology!! I apologize gr8grace!
I did not read your post correctly, now I read it again and see that I read it without comprehending that 'And' with a capital A A A.
Please forgive me. :sad
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No need to apologize Deb. I could have been more clear.
 
Some confusion I see here in this thread. Some things are chance, the scripture was posted brothers and sisters. (Good one agua!)

What it amounts to is that some things are chance. We live in a fractured creation. When sin entered, cause and effect took root. We have free will, period. Some follow Gods will, some step out of Gods will on their own. So no, God is not in control of everything absolutely, by His choice. If it would interfere with His plan, He will step in and make adjustments, he will take advantage of any bad situation and turn it to Good for those who love God, such is His power. In this way, free will is preserved, and Gods plans can be brought (will be brought!) to fruition. So yes jason, pray over your routes. I have laid hands on people furnaces, lol! If it is in your heart to do so, then do it. If it is in Gods will, it shall be done. I love praying over my work. Everybody wins. God gets glory, the customers gets the best service in the universe, and I get to eat. It's win/win/win.
 
iLOVE said:
When we as mature Christians understand the sovereignty of God, everything that happens, it happens because He directly causes it or consciously allows it. Nothing happens to you unless it passes through God fingers first. If He allows it we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. Do not underestimate the sovereignty of God. If it got to you it pass through Him. Therefore if it pass through Him, allowing it to get to you, He let it get to you for a reason. Words such as lucky and unlucky or words similar should be deleted from a mature Christians vocabulary. Good and bad is all under Gods control. God is determine that all people will give Him Glory. Christians will give Him glory on earth and in heaven. The bad and the atheist will give Him Glory in hell by continually calling on His name. I guest you can stay there are no atheist in hell!
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Paul says, " 7 But this precious treasure—this light and power that now shine within us[c]—is held in a perishable container, that is, in our weak bodies. Everyone can see that the glorious power within must be from God and is not our own.

8 We are pressed on every side by troubles, but not crushed and broken. We are perplexed because we don’t know why things happen as they do, but we don’t give up and quit. 9 We are hunted down, but God never abandons us. We get knocked down, but we get up again and keep going. 10 These bodies of ours are constantly facing death just as Jesus did; so it is clear to all that it is only the living Christ within who keeps us safe.[d]

11 Yes, we live under constant danger to our lives because we serve the Lord, but this gives us constant opportunities to show forth the power of Jesus Christ within our dying bodies.

12 Because of our preaching we face death, but it has resulted in eternal life for you. 2 Corinthians 4:7-12 TLB
 
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Kathi said:
Do you think that everything that happens in your life and in this world God is behind it?
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I suppose everything that God does not stop is just as much a part of him ultimately controlling things as him purposely doing things is.

Kathi said:
Romans 8:28
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This tells me that no matter what happens and who's behind it, or if God really wanted, or didn't want it to happen, that God can turn it around for my good. So no matter who's causing what to happen God in his power and wisdom can use it for my good. But I'm way in favor of most happenings being purposely controlled by God (by his action or inaction) to fulfill his purposes.


Kathi said:
What do you think The law of cause and effect is?
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Every effect is caused by something. That's what it means to me. But I don't see how that has to mean that all the 'somethings' that produce it's own corresponding effect have conscious deliberate thought behind it.
 
If god interferes even one iota, then doesn't that mean you have no free will?
 
Willhopp said:
If god interferes even one iota, then doesn't that mean you have no free will?
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Not at all. It simply means that he is active and participating in earth/people activities. If someone makes a (free will) decision to step outside of Gods will, if it does not interfere with God's big overall plan, He let's them do it and the effect of what they do. If it interferes with God's plan, then He will step in and "interfere" as you say. It is not God's will that any should perish or turn away from Him, but He wants it to be of our own free will to come to Him. It's all about free will and faith.
 
Edward said:
Not at all. It simply means that he is active and participating in earth/people activities. If someone makes a (free will) decision to step outside of Gods will, if it does not interfere with God's big overall plan, He let's them do it and the effect of what they do. If it interferes with God's plan, then He will step in and "interfere" as you say. It is not God's will that any should perish or turn away from Him, but He wants it to be of our own free will to come to Him. It's all about free will and faith.
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That was a really good answer to an honest question. :)
 
Willhopp said:
If god interferes even one iota, then doesn't that mean you have no free will?
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NO freewill?

Why does free will have to be an all-or-nothing proposition?

Imagine a rat in an intricate maze of passages, full of places he should go, and places he shouldn't go, but places he can go nonetheless, and then him sticking his pointy little rat face over the edge of the maze and saying, "I have no free will."
 
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I don't think it inconceivable that God might interject direction in our lives without putting a ring in our nose, as it were. In other words, using Jethro's maze analogy, helping the rat get past an obstacle and then letting it continue on its own from there. Without some level of free will, I can't imagine how our love for God can carry any meaning.
 
I agree. Love for God is using our free will to move around freely within the boundaries God has established for us in accordance with his good will for us--because we love his ways.
 
Today I finished up our study of Colossians in my high school Sunday School class and what we learned from the letter was how God doesn't want our duty....He wants our heart. He wants us to love him with a real love not a programmed love.
 
WIP said:
Today I finished up our study of Colossians in my high school Sunday School class and what we learned from the letter was how God doesn't want our duty....He wants our heart. He wants us to love him with a real love not a programmed love.
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Shouldn't you be talking about more important things like OSAS, and the Nephlim, lol? :lol
 
Kathi said:
Do you think that everything that happens in your life and in this world God is behind it?Romans 8:28
What do you think The law of cause and effect is?
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The common idea is that if God is behind everything that happens in the world, then He must participating in the evil as well. But that is not entirely true. I believe that everything that happens in the world is allowed by God. There's a difference between "allowing" and "participating/causing."

The law of Cause and Effect is quite simple, actually. Every effect, or everything that happens, has a cause. For example, if you knocked over a mug of milk, what is the cause? Clumsiness. (not necessarily :biggrin)
 
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