Is John MacArthur misrepresenting Catholicism?

[Johann!@#]

Nonetheless, salvation is in grace through faith (in Christ) alone, it marks the birth of a person's spiritual life, and it happens only once, you're either born again or not. Salvation is also irreversible, once you're saved, you can't be unsaved. Just to clarify, only sanctification is a process, salvation shouldn't be described in that way, in case it gives the wrong impression that you're endorsing Catholic eucharist, where the wafer and wine, as Christ's flesh and blood, are continuously presented at the alter, in order to continuously save the congregation from sin. That's not biblical.

What I shared is entirely biblical, Carry_Your_Name, and just to clarify, I’m not endorsing the Catholic Eucharist since I’m Baptist.

Past Tense (Justification) - "I have been saved"
This refers to the moment a person places faith in Christ and is justified—declared righteous by God. It signifies deliverance from the penalty of sin.

Key Verses:

Ephesians 2:8: "For by grace are ye saved through faith..."

Titus 3:5: "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us..."

Present Tense (Sanctification) - "I am being saved"
This highlights the ongoing process of being conformed to Christ, where believers are continually delivered from the power of sin through the Spirit’s work.

Key Verses:

1 Corinthians 1:18: "But unto us which are being saved it is the power of God."

Philippians 2:12: "Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling."

Future Tense (Glorification) - "I will be saved"
This points to the final stage of salvation when believers are completely delivered from the presence of sin and receive glorified bodies.

Key Verses:

Romans 5:9: "We shall be saved from wrath through him."

Romans 13:11: "Now is our salvation nearer than when we believed."

Ultimate (Glorification) - "I am saved to be glorified"
This encompasses the eternal state where salvation is fully realized, and believers are glorified, free from sin and mortality.

Key Verses:

1 John 3:2: "We shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is."

Romans 8:30: "Whom he justified, them he also glorified."

Soi n summary, salvation in Scripture is presented as a past event (justification), a present process (sanctification), a future expectation (glorification), and an ultimate state (glorification fulfilled). These tenses together reflect the full scope of God's redemptive work.

Or---


GREEK VERB TENSES USED FOR SALVATION

Salvation is not a product, but a daily relationship with God in Christ. It is not finished when one trusts Christ; it has only begun (an example may be a gate and then a road, cf. Matt. 7:13-14)! It is not a fire insurance policy, nor a ticket to heaven, but a life of growing Christlikeness (cf. Rom. 8:28-29; 2 Cor. 3:18; 7:1; Gal. 4:19; Eph. 1:4; 4:13; 1 Thess. 3:13; 4:3,7; 5:23; 1 Pet. 1:15; see SPECIAL TOPIC: CHRISTIAN GROWTH). We have a proverbial saying in America that says the longer a couple lives together, the more they begin to look alike. This is the goal of salvation (see SPECIAL TOPIC: SALVATION [NT])! Salvation is an initial response followed by a daily response throughout life (see SPECIAL TOPIC: COVENANT ). All of the Greek VERB TENSES are used to describe NT spiritual salvation.

SALVATION AS A COMPLETED ACTION (AORIST)

 ● Acts 15:11; 16:31

 ● Romans 8:24

 ● 2 Timothy 1:9

 ● Titus 3:5

 ● Romans 13:11 (combines the AORIST with a future orientation)

SALVATION AS A STATE OF BEING BROUGHT ABOUT BY A PREVIOUS ACT (PERFECT)

 ● Ephesians 2:5,8

SALVATION AS A CONTINUING PROCESS THROUGH LIFE (PRESENT)

 ● 1 Corinthians 1:18; 15:2

 ● 2 Corinthians 2:15

 ● Philippians 2:12

 ● 1 Peter 3:21

SALVATION AS A FUTURE CONSUMMATION (FUTURE in VERB TENSE or context)

 ● Romans 5:9,10; 10:9,13

 ● 1 Corinthians 3:15; 5:5

 ● Philippians 1:28

 ● 1 Thessalonians 5:8-9

 ● Hebrews 1:14; 9:28

 ● 1 Peter 1:5

Therefore, NT salvation begins with an initial faith decision (cf. John 1:12; 3:16; Rom. 10:9-13), but this must issue in lifestyle faith (cf. Rom. 8:29; Gal. 2:19-20; Eph. 1:4; 2:10), which will one day be consummated in sight (cf. 1 John 3:2). This final state is called glorification (cf. Rom. 8:28-30). This process can be illustrated as

initial salvation ‒ justification (saved from the penalty of sin)
progressive salvation ‒ sanctification (saved from the power of sin)
final salvation ‒ glorification (saved from the presence of sin)
For a good discussion of this threefold aspect of salvation, see Dale Moody, The Word of Truth, pp. 311-313.

SPECIAL TOPIC: FAITH, BELIEVE, OR TRUST

SPECIAL TOPIC: GREEK VERB TENSES USED FOR SALVATION

Salvation (Greek Verb Tenses) -- Special Topic by Dr. Bob Utley, professor of hermeneutics (retired).

freebiblecommentary.org

Praise God!

J.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

What I shared is entirely biblical, @Carry_Your_Name, and just to clarify, I’m not endorsing the Catholic Eucharist since I’m Baptist.

Then don't preach salvation as "progressive", just say sanctification, or "walk with God", "spiritual growth", those are entirely biblical as well. Chose of word matters.

 

[Johann!@#]

Then don't preach salvation as "progressive", just say sanctification, or "walk with God", "spiritual growth", those are entirely biblical as well. Chose of word matters.

Yes, choice of words matters...and this is where you’re going wrong.

Salvation as a Process – Scriptural Basis:
The Bible uses all three tenses (past, present, and future) to describe salvation, demonstrating that it is both an accomplished fact and an ongoing process:

Past (Justification) - Salvation as a completed act:

Ephesians 2:8: "For by grace are ye saved through faith..." (Perfect tense in Greek, indicating a completed action with continuing results).

Romans 5:1: "Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God..." (Aorist tense, indicating a one-time, completed action).

Present (Sanctification) - Salvation as a continuing process:

1 Corinthians 1:18: "For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are being saved it is the power of God." (Present tense in Greek, indicating an ongoing process).

Philippians 2:12: "Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." (The verb κατεργάζεσθε is present imperative, denoting a continuous effort).

Future (Glorification) - Salvation as a future consummation:

Romans 13:11: "For now is our salvation nearer than when we believed." (Future aspect, indicating that salvation will be fully realized at Christ’s return).

1 Peter 1:5: "Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time." (Future tense, pointing to the ultimate fulfillment).

Why Use "Progressive Salvation"?
The term "progressive salvation" reflects the ongoing nature of being transformed into Christlikeness (sanctification), which is biblically accurate.

Salvation is not merely a one-time event; it encompasses the whole journey from justification to glorification.

The process of being conformed to the image of Christ (Romans 8:29) is inseparable from salvation.

2 Corinthians 3:18: "But we all... are changed into the same image from glory to glory..." (Present passive, indicating continuous transformation).

Why Not Just Say "Sanctification"?
While sanctification is the progressive aspect, it is intrinsically part of the broader concept of salvation.

Scripturally, salvation is not just about the moment of conversion but the whole redemptive process, including spiritual growth.

To reduce salvation merely to justification is an oversimplification that disregards the transformative journey described in Scripture.

My Point--
The Bible itself presents salvation as a multi-faceted process-justification (past), sanctification (present), and glorification (future).

Using "progressive salvation" is not only linguistically accurate but also theologically sound, as it encapsulates the ongoing work of grace in the believer’s life. Choosing biblical terms that reflect the full scope of salvation is essential for sound teaching.

I get that we all want to be right in our soteriology, and it can be hard to accept correction. I’m open to being corrected myself, and right now, I’m offering some correction...iron sharpens iron, as Scripture says.

Let’s not get caught up in quibbling over non-essentials or word choices. Instead, let’s focus on rightly dividing the truth. You might know something I don’t, and I might know something you don’t. At the end of the day, it’s not just about what we know, but about who we know-and more importantly, being known by Jesus.

Right Carry_Your_Name?

Or is this going to be a problem?

God bless

Johann

 

[Johann!@#]

Then don't preach salvation as "progressive", just say sanctification, or "walk with God", "spiritual growth", those are entirely biblical as well. Chose of word matters.

Oh, and also--

"Walk with God":
The exact phrase "walk with God" appears twice in the King James Version (KJV):

Genesis 5:24: "And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him."

Genesis 6:9: "Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God."

Variants like "walk before God" and "walk in His ways" occur frequently, but the exact phrase "walk with God" is limited to these two verses.

The broader concept of walking with God appears often, though the wording differs (e.g., Micah 6:8: "...to walk humbly with thy God").

2. "Spiritual Growth":
The exact phrase "spiritual growth" does not appear in any standard English Bible translation, including the KJV, NASB, ESV, or NIV.

The concept is expressed differently, using phrases like "grow in grace" or "grow in knowledge":

2 Peter 3:18: "But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ."

Ephesians 4:15: "But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ."

The Bible emphasizes growth in faith, grace, and knowledge rather than directly stating "spiritual growth."

Summary:
"Walk with God": 2 occurrences (Genesis 5:24, 6:9).

"Spiritual Growth": 0 occurrences (concept expressed differently).

Just want to point this out, as my post is biblically sound Carry_Your_Name--biblical terminology is Imperative.

Thanks.

J.

 

[Johann!@#]

Correction , even exhortation, with psalms, hymns and spiritual songs, is seriously lacking.
The rules prevent honest answers most places, most forums, most religious groups - the groups are adhering to, following another voice, and like Keith Green's song - "Jesus knocked at the door; we left Him out in the rain"... and so on.
The wise man loves criticism - any criticism not just friendly criticism.... (see again Proverbs)....
Instead of being wise, everyone continues basking in the error of their ways along with everyone else not being corrected.
The forums are a lot different today than they used to be , and NOT in a good way.... a lot of mushy mush..... "get along" attitude, and if someone attempts to correct a very serious error even, soft pedal it, make it go away....

Absolutely correct follower--a lot of mushy mush, just get along kinda attitude--Lol!

Johann.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Let’s not get caught up in quibbling over non-essentials or word choices. Instead, let’s focus on rightly dividing the truth. You might know something I don’t, and I might know something you don’t. At the end of the day, it’s not just about what we know, but about who we know-and more importantly, being known by Jesus.

This is not mere semantics, "progressive salvation" puts the validity of one's salvation in question. When a follower of Christ stumbles, stagnates and backslides, when that supposed "progress" seems to have come to a halt, is such person still saved? Will they be glorified? Five out of the seven churches in Revelation were bad, especially Laodicea, which has gone worldly, and Jesus threatened to vomit them out, a reference of the ancient Israelites being vomited out of the Holy Land, are they still saved? This is where the false doctrines slip in, Catholic's answer is getting you saved again and again and again through continuous sacrifice, Calvinists retrospectively dismiss them as never saved in the first place, but the real answer lies in the verses below. As much as no Israelite was deported back into Egypt, no born again believer can be unsaved. If the progress is stunted, as the believer sins, the loss is their reward, not their salvation. Bad messaging of good message often lead to wrong conclusions, that's why we ought to be careful with our choice of words, especially on the issue of salvation. Somebody dragged in 1 Tim 2:15, where it is written that a woman can be saved through childbearing, you don't take that literally, do you, you must be smart enough to know that this is not the same kind of salvation Paul taught in Eph. 2:8 or 1 Cor. 1:18.

Yet for all that, when they are in the land of their enemies, I will not cast them away, nor shall I abhor them, to utterly destroy them and break My covenant with them; for I am the Lord their God. (Lev. 26:44)
If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire. (1 Cor. 3:14-15)

 

[Johann!@#]

Catholic's answer is getting you saved again and again and again through continuous sacrifice, Calvinists retrospectively dismiss them as never saved in the first place, but the real answer lies in the verses below. As much as no Israelite was deported back into Egypt, no born again believer can be unsaved. If the progress is stunted, as the believer sins, the loss is their reward, not their salvation. Bad messaging of good message often lead to wrong conclusions, that's why we ought to be careful with our choice of words, especially on the issue of salvation.

I’m not sure why you’re posting this to me-I’ve already told you I’m not Catholic or Calvinist. If you think my post on salvation is “bad messaging,” feel free to report it if it bothers you that much.

It almost seems like you want me to do it “your way,” as if “your way” is the only right way. This is the third time I’ve had to explain myself to you.

This isn’t edifying-it’s just nitpicking.

Shalom.

J.

Yet for all that, when they are in the land of their enemies, I will not cast them away, nor shall I abhor them, to utterly destroy them and break My covenant with them; for I am the Lord their God. (Lev. 26:44)
If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire. (1 Cor. 3:14-15)

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

I’m not sure why you’re posting this to me-I’ve already told you I’m not Catholic or Calvinist. If you think my post on salvation is “bad messaging,” feel free to report it if it bothers you that much.

It almost seems like you want me to do it “your way,” as if “your way” is the only right way. This is the third time I’ve had to explain myself to you.

This isn’t edifying-it’s just nitpicking.

Shalom.

J.

It's not nitpicking, I was asking you a legitimate question - if salvation is a process, what happens when this process halts, or goes backwards? Jesus taught in one parable that an evil spirit was evicted, but when the house was emptied out, this spirit returned, along with more evil spirit, and it ended up worse than its primary state. In such cases, is the person still saved? Will he or she eventually be glorified? If you have no answer, don't blame me for bringing up Catholics and Calvinists who do.

 

[Johann!@#]

Catholic's answer is getting you saved again and again and again through continuous sacrifice, Calvinists retrospectively dismiss them as never saved in the first place, but the real answer lies in the verses below. As much as no Israelite was deported back into Egypt, no born again believer can be unsaved. If the progress is stunted, as the believer sins, the loss is their reward, not their salvation. Bad messaging of good message often lead to wrong conclusions, that's why we ought to be careful with our choice of words, especially on the issue of salvation.

It's not nitpicking, I was asking you a legitimate question - if salvation is a process, what happens when this process halts, or goes backwards? Jesus taught in one parable that an evil spirit was evicted, but when the house was emptied out, this spirit returned, along with more evil spirit, and it ended up worse than its primary state. In such cases, is the person still saved? Will he or she eventually be glorified? If you have no answer, don't blame me for bringing up Catholics and Calvinists who do.

I personally think you have your metaphors scrambled--and the grammar and syntax of the Greek text.

J.

 

[donadams]

Work is evidence of salvation, NOT requirement. Salvation is in faith alone, you're preaching a false gospel.

What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh? For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. (Rom. 4:1-4)

But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, ;even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. (Eph. 2:4-9)

you "faith alone" is the new gospel of the 16th century reformation plantation!

the true church sacraments came with Christ 2000 yrs ago

1 Timothy 4:1
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith...

it all begins with grace and we must cooperate and participate but no boast on our part cos its begun by grace and grace enables our participation.

apart from Christ & grace "nothing"!
Jn 15:5
with Christ and grace "all things"!
phil 4:13
narrow road leads to life! matt 7:14
My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness.
2 cor 12:9
abide in Christ to bear fruit. Jn 15:1-5

Matthew 16:24
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Phil 1:29
For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

1 Peter 5:10
But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.

Christians called to a life of Suffering in union with Christ for the salvation of souls & the love of God!

No servant is greater than his master. Jn 13:16

rev 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

thks

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

you "faith alone" is the new gospel of the 16th century reformation plantation!

Adding work, especially fancy, showy religious work to grace is a false religion. Blessing is earned, salvation is given, it's not under anybody's control.

 

[jasonc]

is a person any less of a husband to a wife of 5 years ,10 years or a day or 80 years ?

no but the longer the marriage will show the signs of depth as it survived trials and the love went from puppy love to mature love .

eros can't kept a marriage .

salvation works very much that way . we start out immature ,untested and pain ,failure comes .maturity comes when we make it through .

or rather God gets us through .we don't die more saved only that the longer we are here we will have a more in depth relationship with God .

sadly many Christians stay in that carnal ,baby phase rather then mature imho..even in arminist circles is salvation taught as a process

 

[donadams]

Adding work, especially fancy, showy religious work to grace is a false religion. Blessing is earned, salvation is given, it's not under anybody's control.

how can we abide in Christ and bear fruit?

 

[Free]

Yes, choice of words matters...and this is where you’re going wrong.

Salvation as a Process – Scriptural Basis:
The Bible uses all three tenses (past, present, and future) to describe salvation, demonstrating that it is both an accomplished fact and an ongoing process:

Past (Justification) - Salvation as a completed act:

Ephesians 2:8: "For by grace are ye saved through faith..." (Perfect tense in Greek, indicating a completed action with continuing results).

Romans 5:1: "Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God..." (Aorist tense, indicating a one-time, completed action).

Present (Sanctification) - Salvation as a continuing process:

1 Corinthians 1:18: "For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are being saved it is the power of God." (Present tense in Greek, indicating an ongoing process).

Philippians 2:12: "Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." (The verb κατεργάζεσθε is present imperative, denoting a continuous effort).

Future (Glorification) - Salvation as a future consummation:

Romans 13:11: "For now is our salvation nearer than when we believed." (Future aspect, indicating that salvation will be fully realized at Christ’s return).

1 Peter 1:5: "Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time." (Future tense, pointing to the ultimate fulfillment).

Why Use "Progressive Salvation"?
The term "progressive salvation" reflects the ongoing nature of being transformed into Christlikeness (sanctification), which is biblically accurate.

Salvation is not merely a one-time event; it encompasses the whole journey from justification to glorification.

The process of being conformed to the image of Christ (Romans 8:29) is inseparable from salvation.

2 Corinthians 3:18: "But we all... are changed into the same image from glory to glory..." (Present passive, indicating continuous transformation).

Why Not Just Say "Sanctification"?
While sanctification is the progressive aspect, it is intrinsically part of the broader concept of salvation.

Scripturally, salvation is not just about the moment of conversion but the whole redemptive process, including spiritual growth.

To reduce salvation merely to justification is an oversimplification that disregards the transformative journey described in Scripture.

My Point--
The Bible itself presents salvation as a multi-faceted process-justification (past), sanctification (present), and glorification (future).

Using "progressive salvation" is not only linguistically accurate but also theologically sound, as it encapsulates the ongoing work of grace in the believer’s life. Choosing biblical terms that reflect the full scope of salvation is essential for sound teaching.

I get that we all want to be right in our soteriology, and it can be hard to accept correction. I’m open to being corrected myself, and right now, I’m offering some correction...iron sharpens iron, as Scripture says.

Let’s not get caught up in quibbling over non-essentials or word choices. Instead, let’s focus on rightly dividing the truth. You might know something I don’t, and I might know something you don’t. At the end of the day, it’s not just about what we know, but about who we know-and more importantly, being known by Jesus.

Right Carry_Your_Name?

Or is this going to be a problem?

God bless

Johann

If we are already saved--declared righteous by Christ's imputed righteousness--then because we're also "being saved" and "will be saved," the question is: what does "saved" refer to?

The ESV Study Bible has this in a little chart at the back:

Justification: has been saved - from the guilt of sin (Eph. 2:8)
Sanctification: is being saved - from the power of sin (1 Cor. 1:18)
Glorification: will be saved - from the presence of sin (Acts 15:11)

It is important to note that we are saved. Unless we can lose our salvation, which isn't likely (Phil. 1:6), then a person who is justified is saved--they are saved from the wrath of God by being clothed in the righteousness of Christ. Sanctification doesn't save from the wrath of God, that has been taken care of, but from the power of sin; it is the process of growing in holiness. Glorification also doesn't save from the wrath of God.

So, I think there are some finer nuances there that show that although the Bible speaks of salvation in past, present, and future terms, salvation is already essentially accomplished.

 

[GodsGrace]

Adding work, especially fancy, showy religious work to grace is a false religion. Blessing is earned, salvation is given, it's not under anybody's control.

Are you saying,,,,as some Christians do,,,,that good works are not necessary?

 

[Johann!@#]

If we are already saved--declared righteous by Christ's imputed righteousness--then because we're also "being saved" and "will be saved," the question is: what does "saved" refer to?

The ESV Study Bible has this in a little chart at the back:

Justification: has been saved - from the guilt of sin (Eph. 2:8)
Sanctification: is being saved - from the power of sin (1 Cor. 1:18)
Glorification: will be saved - from the presence of sin (Acts 15:11)

It is important to note that we are saved. Unless we can lose our salvation, which isn't likely (Phil. 1:6), then a person who is justified is saved--they are saved from the wrath of God by being clothed in the righteousness of Christ. Sanctification doesn't save from the wrath of God, that has been taken care of, but from the power of sin; it is the process of growing in holiness. Glorification also doesn't save from the wrath of God.

So, I think there are some finer nuances there that show that although the Bible speaks of salvation in past, present, and future terms, salvation is already essentially accomplished.

If we are already saved--declared righteous by Christ's imputed righteousness--then because we're also "being saved" and "will be saved," the question is: what does "saved" refer to?

The ESV Study Bible has this in a little chart at the back:

Justification: has been saved - from the guilt of sin (Eph. 2:8)
Sanctification: is being saved - from the power of sin (1 Cor. 1:18)
Glorification: will be saved - from the presence of sin (Acts 15:11)

It is important to note that we are saved. Unless we can lose our salvation, which isn't likely (Phil. 1:6), then a person who is justified is saved--they are saved from the wrath of God by being clothed in the righteousness of Christ. Sanctification doesn't save from the wrath of God, that has been taken care of, but from the power of sin; it is the process of growing in holiness. Glorification also doesn't save from the wrath of God.

So, I think there are some finer nuances there that show that although the Bible speaks of salvation in past, present, and future terms, salvation is already essentially accomplished.

Did I say anything contrary, Free? It seems there's been quite a bit of confusion since I posted this, right? Why not just ask me directly what's on your mind? Are you suggesting that I might deviate from the gospel or salvation and possibly introduce a heteron pseudo-gospel in some way?

Probably going to get into trouble for asking questions now, right?

GREEK VERB TENSES USED FOR SALVATION

Salvation is not a product, but a daily relationship with God in Christ. It is not finished when one trusts Christ; it has only begun (an example may be a gate and then a road, cf. Matt. 7:13-14)! It is not a fire insurance policy, nor a ticket to heaven, but a life of growing Christlikeness (cf. Rom. 8:28-29; 2 Cor. 3:18; 7:1; Gal. 4:19; Eph. 1:4; 4:13; 1 Thess. 3:13; 4:3,7; 5:23; 1 Pet. 1:15; see SPECIAL TOPIC: CHRISTIAN GROWTH). We have a proverbial saying in America that says the longer a couple lives together, the more they begin to look alike. This is the goal of salvation (see SPECIAL TOPIC: SALVATION [NT])! Salvation is an initial response followed by a daily response throughout life (see SPECIAL TOPIC: COVENANT ). All of the Greek VERB TENSES are used to describe NT spiritual salvation.

SALVATION AS A COMPLETED ACTION (AORIST)

 ● Acts 15:11; 16:31

 ● Romans 8:24

 ● 2 Timothy 1:9

 ● Titus 3:5

 ● Romans 13:11 (combines the AORIST with a future orientation)

SALVATION AS A STATE OF BEING BROUGHT ABOUT BY A PREVIOUS ACT (PERFECT)

 ● Ephesians 2:5,8

SALVATION AS A CONTINUING PROCESS THROUGH LIFE (PRESENT)

 ● 1 Corinthians 1:18; 15:2

 ● 2 Corinthians 2:15

 ● Philippians 2:12

 ● 1 Peter 3:21

SALVATION AS A FUTURE CONSUMMATION (FUTURE in VERB TENSE or context)

 ● Romans 5:9,10; 10:9,13

 ● 1 Corinthians 3:15; 5:5

 ● Philippians 1:28

 ● 1 Thessalonians 5:8-9

 ● Hebrews 1:14; 9:28

 ● 1 Peter 1:5

Therefore, NT salvation begins with an initial faith decision (cf. John 1:12; 3:16; Rom. 10:9-13), but this must issue in lifestyle faith (cf. Rom. 8:29; Gal. 2:19-20; Eph. 1:4; 2:10), which will one day be consummated in sight (cf. 1 John 3:2). This final state is called glorification (cf. Rom. 8:28-30). This process can be illustrated as

initial salvation ‒ justification (saved from the penalty of sin)
progressive salvation ‒ sanctification (saved from the power of sin)
final salvation ‒ glorification (saved from the presence of sin)
For a good discussion of this threefold aspect of salvation, see Dale Moody, The Word of Truth, pp. 311-313.

SPECIAL TOPIC: GREEK VERB TENSES USED FOR SALVATION

Salvation (Greek Verb Tenses) -- Special Topic by Dr. Bob Utley, professor of hermeneutics (retired).

freebiblecommentary.org

SPECIAL TOPIC: SANCTIFICATION

Sanctification -- Special Topic by Dr. Bob Utley, professor of hermeneutics (retired).

freebiblecommentary.org

Which is in full agreement with what you said, correct?

J.

 

[GodsGrace]

If we are already saved--declared righteous by Christ's imputed righteousness--then because we're also "being saved" and "will be saved," the question is: what does "saved" refer to?

The ESV Study Bible has this in a little chart at the back:

Justification: has been saved - from the guilt of sin (Eph. 2:8)
Sanctification: is being saved - from the power of sin (1 Cor. 1:18)
Glorification: will be saved - from the presence of sin (Acts 15:11)

It is important to note that we are saved. Unless we can lose our salvation, which isn't likely (Phil. 1:6), then a person who is justified is saved--they are saved from the wrath of God by being clothed in the righteousness of Christ. Sanctification doesn't save from the wrath of God, that has been taken care of, but from the power of sin; it is the process of growing in holiness. Glorification also doesn't save from the wrath of God.

So, I think there are some finer nuances there that show that although the Bible speaks of salvation in past, present, and future terms, salvation is already essentially accomplished.

How could salvation already be accomplised if Jesus stated that we must endure to the end?

IF we endure to the end , we are saved.

We can know we are saved right now.
Whether or not we are saved 10, 20, 30 years from now, remains to be seen.

 

[Johann!@#]

How could salvation already be accomplised if Jesus stated that we must endure to the end?

IF we endure to the end , we are saved.

We can know we are saved right now.
Whether or not we are saved 10, 20, 30 years from now, remains to be seen.

I suggest you take a look at the Greek verb tenses, Sorella, regarding our salvation.

SPECIAL TOPIC: GREEK VERB TENSES USED FOR SALVATION

Salvation (Greek Verb Tenses) -- Special Topic by Dr. Bob Utley, professor of hermeneutics (retired).

freebiblecommentary.org

Which seems to be "confusing" to some here.

Shalom.

J.

 

[GodsGrace]

I suggest you take a look at the Greek verb tenses, Sorella, regarding our salvation.

SPECIAL TOPIC: GREEK VERB TENSES USED FOR SALVATION

Salvation (Greek Verb Tenses) -- Special Topic by Dr. Bob Utley, professor of hermeneutics (retired).

freebiblecommentary.org

Which seems to be "confusing" to some here.

Shalom.

J.

OK
I read it.
I agree fully.

I do believe that part of the problem is the belief that once a person is saved they will always be saved.
This belief necessitates the belief that nothing can happen to make us forfeit our salvation once we have obtained it.

As your article states....
There is initial salvation.....but then we begin our walk with God, which is called sanctification.

If that walk stops/ends....we must ask ourselves if the sanctification process just continues on WITHOUT US.

Of course it does not.

BUT
In order to maintain the belief that one CANNOT lose salvation....
we then hear that the person was never saved to begin with.

Jesus said we will be saved if we endure till the end.
Seems pretty simple to me.

 

[Johann!@#]

OK
I read it.
I agree fully.

I do believe that part of the problem is the belief that once a person is saved they will always be saved.
This belief necessitates the belief that nothing can happen to make us forfeit our salvation once we have obtained it.

As your article states....
There is initial salvation.....but then we begin our walk with God, which is called sanctification.

If that walk stops/ends....we must ask ourselves if the sanctification process just continues on WITHOUT US.

Of course it does not.

BUT
In order to maintain the belief that one CANNOT lose salvation....
we then hear that the person was never saved to begin with.

Jesus said we will be saved if we endure till the end.
Seems pretty simple to me.

I’m not looking to be argumentative here, but I can provide Scripture showing that OSAS is biblically supported, according to the Greek text and syntax.

Let’s leave it at that for now--I don’t want to come across as confrontational.

I did not join this Forum "to steal the show" and prefer to post as little as possible.

J.