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can we have eternal life please in this world?
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join Hidden in Him and For His Glory for discussions on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/become-a-vessel-of-honor-part-2.112306/
Is John MacArthur misrepresenting Catholicism?
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Carry_Your_Name
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That depends on your understanding of "eternality". On one hand, if we're to inherit an all-encompassing eternal life, this mortal life must be included; on the other hand, this world is NOT eternal, as heavens and earth will eventually pass away.
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when scripture says we possess eternal life now it refers to grace
life
Jn 10:10
Jn 14:6
Eph 2
quickened or brought to life
Living members of Christ in His new covenant of grace by faith and baptism, then we must abide in Christ by prayer, fasting, alms, mass & sacraments, and the practice of the virtues of Jesus Christ, (matt 11:29) (1 cor 13:13) abiding in Christ (Jn 15:5) keeping ourselves in the love of God, (Jude 1:21) and enduring to the end (Matt 10:22)
salvation is proccess
Redemption, Justification, sanctification, and Salvation!
Redemption: 100 percent the work of God, thru the life, death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ! All mankind are redeemed in Christ! Eph 2
Galatians 2:16 3:13
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law...
Christ alone accomplished the redemption of mankind apart from any works on our part!
(Redemption is not Salvation)
Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
Justification: our acceptance of redemption thru faith and baptism! Become a disciple and member of Christ and His Church! Jn 3:5 acts 2:38 Mk 16:16 He who believes and is baptized shall be saved. 1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Sanctification: the life of grace applied to our souls in the sacraments, prayer, virtue and good works, the just living by faith, and faith working thru love! Phil 1:29 called to suffer with Christ.
All done in Christ thru His grace! Jn 15:4 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. Matt 24:14 endures to the end.
Purification: no unclean thing enter the heavenly realms of glory!
Salvation: a christian in the state if grace at the moment of death we enter into the salvation of the Lord! Mt 24:44-47 faithful servant! Jn 15:1-5 abide in me. Mt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:
Heb 4:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Rom 13:11 ...for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.
Glorification:
Suffering with Christ is required for glorification with Christ!
Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
Justification and salvation are not the same rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
Jn 15:1-5 abide in Him!
Mk 13:13 Matt 24:13 Matt 19:22 endure to the end in union with Christ and his saints by grace with good works.
Titus 2:14
Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, (redemption) and purify unto himself a peculiar people, (justification / baptism notice purify / wash) Jn 3:5 Titus 3:5 acts 22:16 zealous of good works. (Sanctification) Mk 13:13 Matt 24:13 endures to the end Shall be saved.
(Salvation)
thks
Carry_Your_Name
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I disagree. Salvation is instantaneous, Jesus was sacrificed only for once and you accept salvation from his blood only for once; afterward is the lifelong process of sanctification; and when we're resurrected from the dead upon the Lord's return, that's glorification.
Thank you for the clarification of catholic doctrine.
I believe it is wrong but thank you for educating us.
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please explain
mk 13:13 he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
matt 10:22 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
matt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
your not dead yet?
gal 5:19-21
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
even if you think you saved by faith alone!
Scripture Quiz!
which is scripture and which is fundamentalist tradition?
Saved and have life by faith alone, then follow the narrow road.
Matthew 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
I am a disciple by faith alone!
Matthew 16:24
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
Born of water, born again of the spirit.
Jn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Saved by faith alone, then get baptized as a profession of the faith that already saved me.
Mk 16:16 he who believes and is baptized shall be saved.
Receive Christ and you are a child of God by faith alone.
Jn 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
First moment of believing is salvation.
Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.
faith alone is the only requirement.
1 cor 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
faith alone is all that exists or matters. faith is the greatest.
1 cor 13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.
faith alone is all that exists or matters.
phil 1:29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;
I can enter by faith alone on my own.
Jn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
2 pet 1:11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
can you explain these verses in light of the doctrine of "faith alone"?
matt 11:12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.
Revelation 2:10
Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.
Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
1 tim 2:15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
Hebrews 12:4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.
1 Peter 4:18
And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?
thks
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Scripture Quiz!
which is scripture and which is fundamentalist tradition?
Saved and have life by faith alone, then follow the narrow road.
Matthew 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
I am a disciple by faith alone!
Matthew 16:24
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
Born of water, born again of the spirit.
Jn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Saved by faith alone, then get baptized as a profession of the faith that already saved me.
Mk 16:16 he who believes and is baptized shall be saved.
Receive Christ and you are a child of God by faith alone.
Jn 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
First moment of believing is salvation.
Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.
faith alone is the only requirement.
1 cor 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
faith alone is all that exists or matters. faith is the greatest.
1 cor 13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.
faith alone is all that exists or matters.
phil 1:29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;
I can enter by faith alone on my own.
Jn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
2 pet 1:11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
can you explain these verses in light of the doctrine of "faith alone"?
matt 11:12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.
Revelation 2:10
Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.
Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
1 tim 2:15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
Hebrews 12:4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.
1 Peter 4:18
And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?
thks
Carry_Your_Name
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Quote any random verse you like, I don't care, but tell me about this one. In its context it's talking about proper order and behavior in the church, NOT spiritual and eternal salvation. If you insist that it's the same spiritual and eternal salvation, then "saved" therein must've been used in a sarcastic sense, because childbearing is a curse for women, Rachel was literally dead in childbirth; even in the modern age, despite multiple waves of feminist movement, women are still primarily being valued for their childbearing potential.
I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception;
In pain you shall bring forth children; (Gen. 3:16)
Now when Rachel saw that she bore Jacob no children, Rachel envied her sister, and said to Jacob, “Give me children, or else I die!” (Gen. 30:1)
Then they journeyed from Bethel. And when there was but a little distance to go to Ephrath, Rachel labored in childbirth, and she had hard labor ... So Rachel died and was buried on the way to Ephrath (that is, Bethlehem). (Gen. 35:16-19)
Woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! (Matt. 24:19)
But even if you do marry, you have not sinned; and if a virgin marries, she has not sinned. Nevertheless such will have trouble in the flesh, but I would spare you. (1 Cor. 7:27)
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salvation is a process
Redemption :
The redemption was accomplished by Christ with no participation on our part. All mankind is redeemed.
Lk 2:11 Jn 1:29 rm 5:8 eph 2:1-8 1 pet 1:21-23
God gives all men sufficient truth and grace for salvation.
Justification:
then if we accept His redemption we are justified, born again by faith and baptism. Mk 16:16 Jn 3:5 acts 2:38 8:36 Titus 3:5 1 pet 3:21
Sanctification:
Members of Christ and his church by grace we practice good works (prayer, alms, fasting, virtues charity, suffering other sacraments etc. until death. Phil 1:29
Salvation:
Is for those who are faithful and die in the grace of God united to Christ and in his saints at death enter into eternal salvation! Mk 13:13 Matt 24:13
Titus 2:14
Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, (redemption) and purify unto himself a peculiar people, (justification / baptism notice purify / wash) Jn 3:5 zealous of good works. (Sanctification) Jn 15:4 abide in Christ Matt 3:16 believes (present tense) Matt 24:13 endures to the end Shall be saved.
(Salvation)
Glorification:
Suffering required for glorification with Christ!
Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
Justification and salvation are not the same rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
salvation begins now but is not complete until the hour of death! matt 10:22
thks
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the truth shall make you free
Jn 8:32
false doctrine keeps you on the reformation plantation!
thks
Carry_Your_Name
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No, it's not. Redemption, justification and salvation are all accomplished by Christ on the cross, he's the ultimated sacrifice. From there on, all other animal sacrifice or other forms of sacrifice are invalidated.
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all scripture is the inspired word of God!
suffering is part of salvation!
thks
Carry_Your_Name
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I wasn't asking about all Scripture, I was only asking about this one. Yes, suffering is part of salvation, Lord Jesus's part, but he didn't bear child, he was the child borne by the woman in Rev. 12.
Johann!@#
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Hi Carry_Your_Name.
GREEK VERB TENSES USED FOR SALVATION
Salvation is not a product, but a daily relationship with God in Christ. It is not finished when one trusts Christ; it has only begun (an example may be a gate and then a road, cf. Matt. 7:13-14)! It is not a fire insurance policy, nor a ticket to heaven, but a life of growing Christlikeness (cf. Rom. 8:28-29; 2 Cor. 3:18; 7:1; Gal. 4:19; Eph. 1:4; 4:13; 1 Thess. 3:13; 4:3,7; 5:23; 1 Pet. 1:15; see SPECIAL TOPIC: CHRISTIAN GROWTH).
We have a proverbial saying in America that says the longer a couple lives together, the more they begin to look alike. This is the goal of salvation (see SPECIAL TOPIC: SALVATION [NT])! Salvation is an initial response followed by a daily response throughout life (see SPECIAL TOPIC: COVENANT ). All of the Greek VERB TENSES are used to describe NT spiritual salvation.
SALVATION AS A COMPLETED ACTION (AORIST)
● Acts 15:11; 16:31
● Romans 8:24
● 2 Timothy 1:9
● Titus 3:5
● Romans 13:11 (combines the AORIST with a future orientation)
SALVATION AS A STATE OF BEING BROUGHT ABOUT BY A PREVIOUS ACT (PERFECT)
● Ephesians 2:5,8
SALVATION AS A CONTINUING PROCESS THROUGH LIFE (PRESENT)
● 1 Corinthians 1:18; 15:2
● 2 Corinthians 2:15
● Philippians 2:12
● 1 Peter 3:21
SALVATION AS A FUTURE CONSUMMATION (FUTURE in VERB TENSE or context)
● Romans 5:9,10; 10:9,13
● 1 Corinthians 3:15; 5:5
● Philippians 1:28
● 1 Thessalonians 5:8-9
● Hebrews 1:14; 9:28
● 1 Peter 1:5
Therefore, NT salvation begins with an initial faith decision (cf. John 1:12; 3:16; Rom. 10:9-13), but this must issue in lifestyle faith (cf. Rom. 8:29; Gal. 2:19-20; Eph. 1:4; 2:10), which will one day be consummated in sight (cf. 1 John 3:2). This final state is called glorification (cf. Rom. 8:28-30). This process can be illustrated as
initial salvation ‒ justification (saved from the penalty of sin)
progressive salvation ‒ sanctification (saved from the power of sin)
final salvation ‒ glorification (saved from the presence of sin)
For a good discussion of this threefold aspect of salvation, see Dale Moody, The Word of Truth, pp. 311-313.
SPECIAL TOPIC: FAITH, BELIEVE, OR TRUST
SPECIAL TOPIC: GREEK VERB TENSES USED FOR SALVATION
Salvation (Greek Verb Tenses) -- Special Topic by Dr. Bob Utley, professor of hermeneutics (retired).
freebiblecommentary.org
Johann.
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You right but His merits (grace) must be applied to our souls to be washed from sin
how does this happen?
faith alone?
accepting Christ?
accepting Christ only makes is possible for us to become born again children of God!
Jn 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
born again in the waters of baptismal regeneration
thanks
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we are members of Christ's body, we are called to suffer for his sake and the church
phil 1:29 for unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;
Colossians 1:24
Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is thechurch:
notice: not faith alone!
Carry_Your_Name
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Nonetheless, salvation is in grace through faith (in Christ) alone, it marks the birth of a person's spiritual life, and it happens only once, you're either born again or not. Salvation is also irreversible, once you're saved, you can't be unsaved. Just to clarify, only sanctification is a process, salvation shouldn't be described in that way, in case it gives the wrong impression that you're endorsing Catholic eucharist, where the wafer and wine, as Christ's flesh and blood, are continuously presented at the alter, in order to continuously save the congregation from sin. That's not biblical.
Carry_Your_Name
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Work is evidence of salvation, NOT requirement. Salvation is in faith alone, you're preaching a false gospel.
What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh? For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. (Rom. 4:1-4)
But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, ;even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. (Eph. 2:4-9)
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“What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:4-7
One of His sheep who wanders away and becomes lost through sin, is no longer justified and must repent and return and be reconciled and restored.
Lost = Unsaved. A sinner who needs to repent.
Then Peter came to Him and said, “Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? Up to seven times?”
Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven. Therefore the kingdom of heaven is like a certain king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants. And when he had begun to settle accounts, one was brought to him who owed him ten thousand talents. But as he was not able to pay, his master commanded that he be sold, with his wife and children and all that he had, and that payment be made. The servant therefore fell down before him, saying, ‘Master, have patience with me, and I will pay you all.’ Then the master of that servant was moved with compassion, released him, and forgave him the debt.
“But that servant went out and found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii; and he laid hands on him and took him by the throat, saying, ‘Pay me what you owe!’ So his fellow servant fell down at his feet and begged him, saying, ‘Have patience with me, and I will pay you all.’ And he would not, but went and threw him into prison till he should pay the debt. So when his fellow servants saw what had been done, they were very grieved, and came and told their master all that had been done. Then his master, after he had called him, said to him, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you begged me. Should you not also have had compassion on your fellow servant, just as I had pity on you?’ And his master was angry, and delivered him to the torturers until he should pay all that was due to him.
“So My heavenly Father also will do to you if each of you, from his heart, does not forgive his brother his trespasses.”
Matthew 18:21-35
- Should you not also have had compassion on your fellow servant, just as I had pity on you?’ And his master was angry, and delivered him to the torturers until he should pay all that was due to him.“So My heavenly Father also will do to you if each of you, from his heart, does not forgive his brother his trespasses
The forgiveness of sins the servant once had was taken back and the original sentence for sins was reinstated.
Carry_Your_Name
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Disobedience will result in curses and misfortunes, see the long list of curses in Deut. 28. In the OT, no matter how far gone Israel was, no matter how lost they were, God's covenant with Abraham stands, they were still God's children. The same applies to the gentile church, which is a part of the commonwealth of Israel, adopted as Abraham's heir through Christ.
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