Is Love Really the Greatest?

[Spockrates]

Wisdom does not produce love, but acknowledges it. It illuminates and reveals the justification of love. The fool will not see a justification for love.

Welcome, Sinthesis. Is it unwise to love?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Do you think standing before God merely possessing wisdom is somehow a greater virtue than having put that wisdom to work and having righteous works to show at the resurrection?

Even the wisdom of what I just said is just a means to an ends, not the ends itself. That's why love is the greatest of all.

Maybe it makes more sense when you understand that Biblical love is action, not just feelings or emotions or good intentions. James and John both illustrate how good intentions don't mean anything. In fact, James says you can't be saved by a faith that only has good intentions, but no action.

I think I'll better be able to answer your question once you define wisdom for me, but I'll take a stab at answering, now: I'd say that I'd be extremely unwise to stand before God possessing wisdom I know but no love I've done. Rather than wise, I'd be a fool, or a coward, to never act on the wisdom God has given me.

That's pretty much was I was saying.

The Bible does say the wise person is the moral person, while the fool is the morally deficient person.

I also think it is likely not possible to stand before God with acts of love, but no wisdom at all.

I disagree because when we love (Biblically) we are showing the wisdom of God that we have:

"13 Who is wise and understanding among you? Let them show it by their good life, by deeds done in the humility that comes from wisdom." (James 3:13 NASB)

Now I know that you believe hope produces faith, but don't you also believe (as I do) that wisdom produces love?

Yes, the James scripture I just quoted shows us that.

[/INDENT]So isn't every act of godly love also an act produced by godly wisdom?

Yes, and as I say, that makes wisdom a means to an end, not the end itself. It is the love that wisdom produces that counts, not the wisdom that produced it. That is why love is the greater thing, even above wisdom.

 

[Spockrates]

I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the Spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better.

(Ephesians 1:17)

This is a very powerful prayer for all Christians to pray for.

Amen. I think, maybe there are two ways to know God. One is to better understand him (who he is, what he is like, what he desires) and the other is to love him (to desire to be closer to him). Do you think this is not far from the truth?

 

[Spockrates]

...

 

[Spockrates]

To know what it is you are talking about, I think it would help me if you answer two questions: (1) What is love?

"10 Love does no harm to a neighbor." (Romans 13:10 NASB)

IOW, love is seeking the good of another person.

...and (2) What is wisdom?

Can't think of a Biblical definition of that off the top of my head, so we'll go with the dictionary definition:

1. The ability to discern or judge what is true, right, or lasting; insight.
2. Common sense; good judgment: "It is a characteristic of wisdom not to do desperate things" (Henry David Thoreau).
4. A wise outlook, plan, or course of action.

(from http://www.thefreedictionary.com/wisdom)

These seem to fit how the Bible uses wisdom, so I'll go with these.

Thanks. So, given these definitions, would you say that wisdom is that part of us that knows the truth, but does not necessarily live the truth (for people like Solomon and Peter knew the truth but did not live it, at least not all of the time). Love, however lives the truth, but (according to your definition) is not that part of us that of us that knows the truth?

 

[iLOVE]

However, when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will show you things to come. John 16:13 AKJV

Now that you are saved, you should ask the Lord to baptize you with the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:4).

While it is certainly true the Holy Spirit came into your heart and life the moment of your Salvation, still, He now wishes to endure you with power from on high. Consequently, Jesus told all of His followers immediately before His Ascension, that they should "wait for the Promise of the Father" (Acts 1:4). he was speaking of being "Baptized with the Holy Spirit" (Acts 1:5).

You must understand that there is a great difference in being "born of the Spirit" than being " Baptized with the Spirit." They are two different works altogether.

To be "born of the Spirit" is that which took place at your conversion, as the holy Spirit brought you to Christ and performed the work of regeneration within your heart and life. To be "Baptized with the Spirit" is in order that you may have Power with God (Acts 1:8). Every Believer should ask the lord to fill them with the Holy Spirit, and expect to receive (Luke 11:13).

16"He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned. 17"These signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues; 18they will pick up serpents, and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover." Mark 16:17 NASB

Very important: What the Holy Ghost says will always take precedent over your attempt to walk in faith (in something). PAY CLOSE ATTENTION TO THIS!

Faith means confidence in God.

The key indicator of spiritual growth in the life of a Christian is his or her love walk. To say that you are a Believer and not demonstrate the fruit of love in your life is a contradiction. Love is what distinguishes your salvation.

There is a wisdom above that comes from God. And there is a wisdom from below that comes from earthling thinking. The wisdom that comes from below that comes from the natural way of thinking, comes from hell! So to think like a natural man, is to join the Devils way of thinking. James 3:13-18 NIV

One of the greatest promises in the bible from God in the book of James is giving all believers a abundant (unlimited) of wisdom if we ask. However when you mix the two, God wisdom with earthling thinking, you will lose wisdom from God from being "Double Minded". In other words you are cut off! Unfortunately most Christians usually cancel out there Sunday by Monday.

5 crowns as rewards that believers can earn; The five crowns are identified as the Everlasting Crown (Victory) in 1 Cor 9:25, the Crown of the Soul Winner in Phil 4:1 and 1 Thes 2:19, the Crown of Righteousness in 2 Tim 4:8, the Crown of Life in Jas 1:12 and Rev 2:10, and the Crown of Glory in 1 Peter 5:4. These crowns will be awarded to qualifying believers at the Judgment Seat that follows the Rapture (1 Cor. 3:10-15).

 

[Maedchen]

"Love is, above all, the gift of oneself."
--Jean Anouilh, Ardèle

Jesus died on the cross in order to enable us to live forever.
He said:"Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends." (John 15:13)

As we believe that Jesus is God, it can be said that God gave Himself for us. As God is without doubt The Greatest, the giving of Himself was the giving of the Greatest. If the gift of oneself is love (first quote above), then God defined it as the greatest. Hence John 3:16 is a key verse of the bible.

Welcome to the thoughtful discussion, Maedchen.



Are you thinking, then that the greatest thing God can do for us is to love us, and so love itself is the greatest thing we can have for him and express to him and others?

Dear Spockrates,

yes, I do think that loving us is the greatest thing God can do for us, and love itself is the greatest thing we can have for Him and others.
And I believe that Jesus confirms that in John 13:35 - (KJV)  "By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another."

 

[Sinthesis]

Wisdom does not produce love, but acknowledges it. It illuminates and reveals the justification of love. The fool will not see a justification for love.

Welcome, Sinthesis. Is it unwise to love?

Thanks. Nope, at least when it comes to God, and others as ourselves. However, the love of money...

 

[Maedchen]

Yes, it seems love is the greatest thing we can do, but is love the greatest thing we can think?

I also believe that love is the greatest thing we can think.

In order to illustrate my view I have quoted from a classic German writer, namely Johann Wolfgang von Goethe. In his main work "Faust" ( a drama) he shows that all knowledge his protagonist has gained is worth nothing, because it doesn't give him any satisfaction.

" Scene I: Night

(In a high-vaulted Gothic chamber, Faust, in a chair at his desk, restless.)

Ah! Now I’ve done Philosophy,
I’ve finished Law and Medicine, 355
And sadly even Theology:
Taken fierce pains, from end to end.
Now here I am, a fool for sure!
No wiser than I was before:
Master, Doctor’s what they call me, 360
And I’ve been ten years, already,
Crosswise, arcing, to and fro,
Leading my students by the nose,
And see that we can know - nothing!
It almost sets my heart burning. 365
I’m cleverer than all these teachers,
Doctors, Masters, scribes, preachers:
I’m not plagued by doubt or scruple,
Scared by neither Hell nor Devil –
Instead all Joy is snatched away, 370
What’s worth knowing, I can’t say,
I can’t say what I should teach
To make men better or convert each."

The quote might demonstrate that all wisdom might be useful, but not fulfilling. Only later when he meets his love, Gretchen, Faust knows that love is the highest goal to achieve (although in that tragedy there is no happy ending because of a pact with the devil).

 

[Spockrates]

Faith means confidence in God.

What about hope, iLove? Isn't hope a kind of confidence, too? And if so, how does it differ from the other confidence in God called faith?

 

[Spockrates]

Dear Spockrates,

yes, I do think that loving us is the greatest thing God can do for us, and love itself is the greatest thing we can have for Him and others.
And I believe that Jesus confirms that in John 13:35 - (KJV) "By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another."

What about knowing God? Isn't that a great thing as well, my dear Maedchen?

What is more, I consider everything a loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them garbage, that I may gain Christ

(Philippians 3:8)
​

 

[Spockrates]

Welcome, Sinthesis. Is it unwise to love?

Thanks. Nope, at least when it comes to God, and others as ourselves. However, the love of money...

And do decisions produce actions? That is, are the things I do the result of the decisions I make?

 

[Spockrates]

Yes, it seems love is the greatest thing we can do, but is love the greatest thing we can think?

I also believe that love is the greatest thing we can think.

In order to illustrate my view I have quoted from a classic German writer, namely Johann Wolfgang von Goethe. In his main work "Faust" ( a drama) he shows that all knowledge his protagonist has gained is worth nothing, because it doesn't give him any satisfaction. ... The quote might demonstrate that all wisdom might be useful, but not fulfilling. Only later when he meets his love, Gretchen, Faust knows that love is the highest goal to achieve (although in that tragedy there is no happy ending because of a pact with the devil).

Yes, knowing what loving acts one should do is not the same as doing them. I think you are also correct that love is something one thinks, insofar as love is, at least in part a feeling, and feelings themselves are thoughts. But what I'm asking is not whether love is something we do, or love is something we feel. What I want do know is if love is a decision we make to act upon the compassion we feel. Is it correct to say that such decisions are wise decisions?

 

[Sinthesis]

Welcome, Sinthesis. Is it unwise to love?

Thanks. Nope, at least when it comes to God, and others as ourselves. However, the love of money...

And do decisions produce actions? That is, are the things I do the result of the decisions I make?

Not nessessarily. People can fail to act on a decision. People can make a wrong decision, to attempt the impossible. People are also forced into action by things beyond their control.

 

[iLOVE]

Faith means confidence in God.

What about hope, iLove? Isn't hope a kind of confidence, too? And if so, how does it differ from the other confidence in God called faith?

Faith is a positive response what grace has already made available. By acknowledging every good thing in you, your faith will release and transfer what we have in our spirit into the physical world to manifest. This is how faith works and produce. Philemon 1:6 NASB

Hope - Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have[a] peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. 3 And not only that, but we also glory in tribulations, knowing that tribulation produces perseverance; 4 and perseverance, character; and character, hope. 5 Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us. Romans 5: 1-5 NKJV Hope = divine appointment. You have been approved!

The primary purpose people were created by God was to bring glory and honor to His name.