Is Lucifer Satan? A study of scripture...

[Guest]

True, but it is only God's word that is eternal and everlasting. The translations are not. The bad translation of 'heylal, as I pointed out, is the sole reason behind the misunderstanding of Satan's name being Lucifer. It is not.

What does that have to do with the discussion?

True, that's why we have to discern truth through the Holy Spirit, and i was just making sure people had their coffee.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

True, that's why we have to discern truth through the Holy Spirit, and i was just making sure people had their coffee.

I hope by this time of day they have, otherwise they're not going to sleep tonight!

:toofunny

 

[Guest]

haha, that's me minus the tie

 

[EdenBorn]

Lucifer is just another name for Venus (the morning star). There are names synonymous to the name, such as Phosphorus. The name is obviously congruent with meaning 'a bright light'. The flash from a camera is from phosphorus, for example.

When the KJV was translated, it is obvious that 'the morning star' was translated by the namesake 'Lucifer' under these contexts. It is not the actual name of a legitimate celestial being. Interestingly enough, Jesus is called the morning star in Revelations. It is likely that 'the morning star' is a title given to the bearer of light, whom Satan was before the Fall.

 

[cupid dave]

Before you answer with a resounding "YES!" please read over this post. I will be exploring the verse Isaiah 14:12 through a variety of different translations, as well as non-biblical (but historical) material. I have my own opinion, but I leave it up to you to decide for yourself in the end.

Isaiah 14:12

KJV: How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

NIV: How you have fallen from heaven, morning star, son of the dawn!
You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!

NASB: How you have fallen from heaven, O [a]star of the morning, son of the dawn! You have been cut down to the earth, You who have weakened the nations!
[a] Heb Helel, i.e. "shining one"

NRSV: How you are fallen from heaven, O Day Star, son of Dawn!
How you are cut down to the ground, you who laid the nations low!

ESV: How you are fallen from heaven, O Day Star, son of Dawn!
How you are cut down to the ground, you who laid the nations low!

Notice anything? Out of the most popular versions of the Christian Bible, only one, the KJV, uses the name Lucifer. The rest have removed that name in the course of their revisions! Now the question is, why? Let's dive into history...

The monk Jerome, in the 4th century CE, was translating his Latin Vulgate for the Roman Catholic Church, and in the course of it he capitalized the word lucifer, as taken from the Greek heosphorus. The original rendering of lucifer simply means "day star, morning star, or dawn star," a reference to the planet Venus. Other translations include "light-bringing, and bringer of dawn." Why Jerome chose to capitalize the word lucifer and make it a proper noun, no one knows. Thanks to literary works such as the 1611 KJV, Dante's Inferno and Paradise Lost, the name Lucifer became symbolic with Satan.

However, Jerome's interpretation was incorrect.

The entire chapter 14 of Isaiah is actually talking about a Babylonian king. If you look at the original Hebrew that has been translated into English and validated, you find that it states this:

"On the day the Lord gives you relief from your suffering and turmoil and from the harsh labour forced on you, you will take up this taunt against the king of Babylon: How the oppressor has come to an end! How his fury has ended! How you have fallen from heaven, morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations! You said in your heart, 'I will ascend to the heavens; I will raise my throne above the stars of God; I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly, on the utmost heights of Mount Zaphon. I will ascend above the tops of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High.' But you are brought down to the realm of the dead, to the depths of the pit. Those who see you stare at you, they ponder your fate: 'Is this the man who shook the earth and made kingdoms tremble, the man who made the world a wilderness, who overthrew its cities and would not let his captives go home?'"



I know it is a lot to read, but it is VERY important to understand that paragraph. The original Hebrew text says nothing about Satan. It is quite literally talking about a Babylonian king, his enslavement of the Hebrews, the labors they were forced to endure, and that king's death. This is not something that is taught in Sunday school.

According to correctly translated scripture and verified by the original Hebrew, the word lucifer, spelled with a capital L, was an incorrect interpretation/translation by a Roman Catholic monk some 1600 years ago. Incidentally, Isaiah 14:12 is the only verse in the KJV of the Bible where you will find the word lucifer. Since the word does not belong, Lucifer is not Satan.

Now don't start burning me at the stake just yet. I am not saying that there is no Satan, because there most definitely is. We know this for a fact. But that verse (and chapter) is not talking about Satan. This also answers the question as to why modern translations have revised that verse and removed the word lucifer. Simply put, it never belonged in the first place.

:crazy

I agree that this idea of Lucifer has crept in, whether inspired in its long inclusion or not we can not say.
Was Nebuchadnezzar a Lucifer?

Nebu-chadnezzar is suffixed witht a reference to the god who is credited in that name sake as his prime influence:

NEBO, also NABU God of science, writing and speech, speaker for the gods. Nebo maintains records of men's deeds and produces them for judgment after death. His symbol is the stylus.
That this is an immortal, a spirit that rises up in every generation
As such, it seems to grant some credulity to what the monk did, inspired or otherwise, when he personified this Ideal as an archetypal predisposition found in men in every genration before and since Babylon.



NOTE:

Both Mercury and Venus are both evening and morning stars.

That is because they are nearer to the sun than the earth is, so they can never appear very far from the sun in the sky. In other words, when the sun sets in the evening they might be in the west, near the sun as an evening star. Or they could be in the morning sky before sunrise, again, near the sun. But neither Mercury nor Venus can be opposite the sun in the sky, such as rising at sunset. Hence, they are called the evening and morning stars. Actually, "evening star" or "morning star" nearly always refers to Venus, which is by far the brightest celestial object in the sky after the sun and moon. Mercury is much dimmer and only visible for a few weeks of the year.


The ancient God of Science was identified as the Planet Mercury.

 

[Guest]

Isaiah and Ezekiel are both talking about Satan. It's referring to his pride. Notice in Isaiah 14:13-14 says ascend into Heaven, be like the most high. This scripture is talking about the pride of Satan! Also notice in Ezekiel 28:12 and Ezekiel 28:15 says perfect in beauty and perfect in thy ways. They are talking about Lucifer.