Is no interpreter the end of the world?

[Tenchi]

There are currently very few interpreters because, IMO anyway, it is a greater gift than tongues, and harder to come by.

Did you mean to imply that "greater" equates to "harder to come by"? If so, why do you think this?

Now granted, my standards are actually very high, and I personally believe the church should currently be operating in far greater manifestations than anything the early church even came close to.

But isn't the exact opposite in evidence in the record of the Early Church provided in the New Testament? It seems to me that as the account in Acts progresses, miraculous signs decline. And outside of Acts and the Gospels, almost no mention is made of tongues. I can find all throughout the NT teaching on the Holy Spirit, faith, holiness, Christ, his future return, love, peace, grace, etc. but beyond 1 Corinthians 14 and a mention of the gift of tongues in chapter 12, the NT is silent on the matter of tongues-speaking. The discussion of spiritual gifts in Ephesians 4 and in Romans 12 remark on tongues not at all. And when the gifts of the Spirit are listed in 1 Corinthians 12, interpretation of tongues is given dead last. I'm not sure, then, why you'd rank it a greater gift than tongues-speaking and why tongues-speaking should be "operating in far greater manifestation than the Early Church came close to."

But given where we are at the moment, should we cease to operate in one of the few gifts still in operation because there are few interpreters?

I think tongues-speaking - especially in the absence of a legitimate interpreter - is often faked, the gift being the easiest to counterfeit. In fact, I've had folks admit to doing just this, pressured by fellow believers into "manifesting" the Holy Spirit. When they did, no one was the wiser, everyone praising God for the "sign of His presence."

Just something I was mulling over. In the end, yes, I suppose the gifts should cease altogether if need be if they will not be operated in properly, though thankfully I believe the days are coming when the full list of operations in the gifts will no longer be a rarity anymore.

I wonder. Much of what is declared to be of the God, a manifestation of His Spirit, is, I think, nothing more than Mob psychology at work, hype and peer-pressure compelling conformity to the expectations of the group. It appears, too, that the demonic is at work, which one would expect as Christians chase after a sensual experience of God rather than a spiritual one. There may be genuine instances of tongues-speaking today, but I suspect they are pretty rare and confined to private prayer.

Until then, maybe continued strict adherence to the rules will motivate a weak and superficial church to devote herself to the kind of prayer and fasting necessary to get us out of the current lethargy.

The Church isn't weak because of a "strict adherence to the rules" that stifles the exercise of spiritual gifts but because it has lost sight of what constitutes a real, biblical experience of God, substituting sense-oriented, sign-seeking, exciting experiences of God for the quiet, restful, but deeply transformative work of the Spirit who "bears witness with our spirit that we are the children of God" by "convicting us of sin, righteousness and judgment" (John 16:8) by illuminating our minds and hearts to divine Truth (John 16:13; 1 Corinthians 2:10-16), by strengthening us in the midst of temptation and trial (Ephesians 3:16; Philippians 2:13; 4:13), by comforting us seasons of trouble and sorrow (2 Corinthians 1:3-5), and so on.

I once read that it will not be until the church of the Lord Jesus Christ is humiliated before her enemies and found supernaturally powerless that she will finally wake up.

Very often it is the "stick," rather than the "carrot," that motivates believers toward God. We are foolish, wayward and rebellious creatures...

 

[Hidden In Him]

Did you mean to imply that "greater" equates to "harder to come by"? If so, why do you think this?

The greater the gift the more responsibility one bears before God. Many speak in tongues yet few operate in the raising of the dead, because those who operate in the latter would naturally get more attention and thus garner more spiritual influence.

Not sure if that answers your question, but the greater gifts IMO take more prayer and a greater dedication to God, as with greater influence comes a greater temptation to abuse it, and the Lord is therefore careful about who He gives the greater gifts to.

But isn't the exact opposite in evidence in the record of the Early Church provided in the New Testament? It seems to me that as the account in Acts progresses, miraculous signs decline.

They did decline, and continued to decline through the next 250 years of church history, until by around 300 A.D. the early fathers were complaining that all that appeared to be left of the gifts were "traces" of the former glory. I could find the quotes if necessary.

But they eventually went into Full decline and stayed there for the most part until IMO the beginning of the 19th century. They then experienced a return through the first half of the 1900s, but then began to fall into decline again beginning in the late 50s. Then the Faith & Prosperity and Megachurch Movements came along and... forgive me for sounding disrespectful, but essentially prostituted things even further, rotting the timbers out of the Charismatic movement from the inside out through self-serving and spiritually superficial doctrines.

There are certainly a number of places where genuine Spirit-filled Pentecostalism is still being practiced, but we have again entered a time of severe decline.

I think tongues-speaking - especially in the absence of a legitimate interpreter - is often faked

It is.

Much of what is declared to be of the God, a manifestation of His Spirit, is, I think, nothing more than Mob psychology at work, hype and peer-pressure compelling conformity to the expectations of the group.

Also plays a part.

It appears, too, that the demonic is at work, which one would expect as Christians chase after a sensual experience of God rather than a spiritual one.

Actually, the enemy doesn't need to subvert much of what is going on at present because it's already been subverted. You will see the enemy move in with genuine manifestations of demonic power when genuine moves of the Spirit of God are taking place. Otherwise, the enemy is usually content to let sleeping dogs lie.

The Church isn't weak because of a "strict adherence to the rules" that stifles the exercise of spiritual gifts but because it has lost sight of what constitutes a real, biblical experience of God

This much of the paragraph I agree with, yes. Maintaining strict adherence would not be much help when little is going on of great importance anyway.

by strengthening us in the midst of temptation and trial (Ephesians 3:16; Philippians 2:13; 4:13)

This right here is IMO the only thing that will do it. I was honestly looking to see if the economy in the West was going to collapse last year, because hardships are what I believe may be the only thing that will awaken most of the church to devote themselves completely to the Lord. Then they pulled it out by just borrowing on the future like crazy. So things are on hold again as far as the conditions that I think would need to be present before real revival can finally start to take place on a large scale.

 

[eddif]

Did you mean to imply that "greater" equates to "harder to come by"? If so, why do you think this?

I am not Hidden In Him but I will give an opinion.

I find a lot of Pentecostals (especially members and not leadership) to be humble people. They are aware of the pressure against them for their beliefs.
They are under enough pressure as tongue talkers. If they were to become an interpreter the pressure would be probably 4 times as great. Not just double but much greater. They would be subjected to much greater pressure.

Your logic would tend to crush them. In that state they would probably not pray to receive the higher gifts. The gifts are ranked in scripture.

Are some Jews good? Romans 3 seems to say good Jews are not ignored because of bad Jews. The same thing applies to tongue
talkers. Just because some are fake all are not bad.

I do not find your logic offensive. The way I got where I am (not far enough) was entering at the absolute bottom level in a non gifts church. I sort of hid what was going on.

Forbid tongues? No. Forbid interpretation. No. To me they are a training ground to get a person into prophecy. You do not need tongues, but speaking prophetically requires the Holy Spirit. Unless you want to believe like Elihu (that natural man has spirituality inside himself). To me that is eastern mysticism.

Pentecost and the use of tongues:
Jews in dispersion were bi-lingual. (?).
Well they were righteous men from the nations. They went yearly (?) to worship in Jerusalem? They kept (IMHO) their original language to read their scriptures?

It would not been very convincing for the disciples to speak Hebrew. They could have preached for days and probably would have gotten ( yeah I hear you - whatever).
But
They heard each man in his own language. They knew it was God. These Galileans probably did not have a world wide known linguistics university.

The book of Joel was quoted. Sons and daughters were mentioned. (another post?)

There was a tremendous need at Pentecost. There may be a tremendous need in some people today. Everyone? No. Some?……

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[Tenchi]

I find a lot of Pentecostals (especially members and not leadership) to be humble people.

So have I.

They are under enough pressure as tongue talkers. If they were to become an interpreter the pressure would be probably 4 times as great. Not just double but much greater. They would be subjected to much greater pressure.

I see. Why is that? Since the gift of interpretation comes last in Paul's list of gifts in 1 Corinthians 12 and it is not mentioned at all in Ephesians 4, or Romans 12, the only other two places where gifts are delineated at all, why is the gift of interpretation under such pressure? It doesn't appear to be a particularly vital gift and was likely very subject to the gifts of teaching and preaching.

Your logic would tend to crush them. In that state they would probably not pray to receive the higher gifts. The gifts are ranked in scripture.

It isn't merely logic that I've offered but a biblical argument for what I've written.

Just because some are fake all are not bad.

Yes, I agree.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Let me try:
Why would I say try. Pentecost had about 400 years of preparation. Nothing IMHO was spontaneous about Pentecost.

So before I start and mess it all up. Which two are spontaneous? And I might ask is any gathering really totally spontaneous? If the secrets of mens hearts are revealed there is a background revealed. Do rules sort of establish order and sort of remove spontaneity? And I have not even gotten to unexpected thoughts.

This is a lot of stress beyond a rednecks ability.

Just noticing this post, Lol.

You're correct. Spontaneous is not the right word to use. Unexpected is closer. I was just referring to my scenario and Pentecost as being something they didn't foresee, at least not to the extent that it happened, as I don't know that the disciples had any idea how powerfully the Spirit would be poured out, and that the gospel would be preached in a dozen+ languages that day.

 

[eddif]

I see. Why is that? Since the gift of interpretation comes last in Paul's list of gifts

I am considering not getting into this.
One try. In 1 Corinthians 12 the first half of the spiritual gifts are ranked. Tongues and interpretation are paired.

In the (are all) section interpretation is last, and you go elsewhere to decide on level.

eddif

 

[eddif]

it is not mentioned at all in Ephesians 4

Ephesians 4:8 kjv
8. Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

That verse is the spiritual gifts verse.

The men listed below in Ephesians 4 are the people given to the church. Five fold ministries?

I sure do not know it all. I can make mistakes. I really did not have any living humans lead or explain spiritual gifts. I was reading the Bible and it happened. I told my wife what happened, and she said I think the Pentecostals do that. I hunt up a Pentecostal preacher and he scared me something awful. So I read listened, prayed agonized to know what had happened. Pentecostals will not talk to me. Mainline folks seldom listen.

I start on human body symbolism and folks roll their eyes. Romans 1:20 is strange to most people.

I do appreciate your warnings. Spiritual gifts are a tool. They do not make you spiritual.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[BB1956]

In general, I agree with the apostle Paul's teaching that interpretation of tongues should be provided for unbeliever's sake, "lest they think we are mad," as he put it. But I just made a curious observation this morning. They thought the disciples were drunk on the day of Pentecost as well, and there is no mention of interpreters being present there, yet the world did not come to an end.

My point is this: While I do believe the teaching of the apostle Paul should be abided by, I think using it as an excuse not to speak in tongues at all is taking things too far. If we had to make the choice between the two, it would be better if tongues went forth without interpretation than that they not go forth at all just for the sake of abiding by a rule for the sake of appearances. If this rule had been enforced strictly at the dawn of the church age, the events that took place on the Day of Pentecost might never have happened.

Any thoughts?

Acts 2:2-11 it says, "Suddenly there was a noise from heaven, just like that of a rushing, stiff breeze, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. And tongues as if of fire became visible to them and were distributed, and one came to rest on each one of them, and they all became filled with holy spirit and started to speak in different languages, just as the spirit enabled them to speak. At that time devout Jews from every nation under heaven were staying in Jerusalem. So when this sound occurred, a crowd gathered and was bewildered, because each one heard them speaking in his own language. Indeed, they were utterly amazed and said: “See here, all these who are speaking are Galileans, are they not? How is it, then, that each one of us is hearing his own native language? Parthians, Medes, and Elamites, the inhabitants of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and the province of Asia, Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the regions of Libya near Cyrene, sojourners from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, Cretans, and Arabians, we hear them speaking in our languages about the magnificent things of God.”
Then in verse 13 of Acts chapter 2 it says, "However, others mocked them and said: “They are full of sweet wine.”
So all these people who were in Jerusalem at the time didn't think the apostles were drunk, it was a few of the people who mocked the apostles saying they were drunk. Also no interpreter was needed because Acts 2:8 tells us that, "How is it, then, that each one of us is hearing his own native language?"
So all the people who were there understood what the apostles were saying in their own native language.
Also did you notice that the tongues that were being spoken by the apostles was different human languages, that the apostles had never learned. It was God's Holy Spirit that influenced the apostles to speak all these different human languages that represented different human beings there at the time in Jerusalem. This is very different from the tongues that are being spoken by so many people in churches today who are just uttering speech that is unintelligible to any listener. It's no human language at all.
Also the reason Paul said the one who had the gift of speaking in tongues should keep quiet if there is no interpreter in the congregation is because it's the whole congregation that God is concerned with, not just one individual in the congregation. God wants the whole congregation built up. If there is no interpreter in the congregation when someone speaks in a tongue how is the whole congregation built up?
1 Corinthians 14:5 says, "Now I would like for all of you to speak in tongues, but I prefer that you prophesy. Indeed, the one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the congregation may be built up."
1 Corinthians 14:13-19 says, "Therefore, let the one who speaks in a tongue pray that he may interpret. For if I am praying in a tongue, it is my gift of the spirit that is praying, but my mind is unproductive. What is to be done, then? I will pray with the gift of the spirit, but I will also pray with my mind. I will sing praise with the gift of the spirit, but I will also sing praise with my mind. Otherwise, if you offer praise with a gift of the spirit, how will the ordinary person in your midst say “Amen” to your giving of thanks, since he does not know what you are saying? True, you are giving thanks in a fine way, but the other man is not being built up. I thank God that I speak in more tongues than all of you do. Nevertheless, in a congregation I would rather speak five words with my mind, that I might also instruct others, than ten thousand words in a tongue."
If the person speaking in a tongue was unable to translate, then he did not understand what he himself was saying nor would others who were not familiar with that tongue, or language. So, Paul encouraged those having the gift of tongues to pray that they might also translate and thereby edify all listeners. From the foregoing, it can readily be seen why Paul, under inspiration, ranked speaking in tongues as a lesser gift and pointed out that in a congregation he would rather speak five words with his mind (understanding) than 10,000 words in a tongue.

As I said before the people who were at Jerusalem at the Day of Pentecost each of those Jews who were in Jerusalem understood what the apostles were saying about God and Jesus Christ. Remember at Acts 2:8 it says, "How is it, then, that each one of us is hearing his own native language?

So going by what Paul himself said, I disagree with what you said. You said, "While I do believe the teaching of the apostle Paul should be abided by, I think using it as an excuse not to speak in tongues at all is taking things too far. If we had to make the choice between the two, it would be better if tongues went forth without interpretation than that they not go forth at all just for the sake of abiding by a rule for the sake of appearances. If this rule had been enforced strictly at the dawn of the church age, the events that took place on the Day of Pentecost might never have happened."

It wasn't just some rule for the sake of appearance, it was about God's love for everyone in the congregation not just one Individual in the congregation. God wants all of the congregation built up, especially in love, how can that happen if there is no interpreter?

 

[eddif]

Since we are at Pentecost. Let me mention something that may need to be mentioned. God does nothing without speaking to his prophets.

Acts 1:15 kjv
15. And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said, (the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty,)
16. Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus.

Verse 15 allows enough people to speak to many nations. The list of nations exceeds the number of original disciples. Also. The Joel scripture mentions sons and daughters will prophesy. Female disciples of Jesus were evidently speaking too. These would not be ordinary women , but special females ministered to by Jesus during his ministry, who had been with Jesus before.

With the 120? The crowds of many nations could have enough speakers. Joel said sons and daughters would prophesy. They evidently did.

A speaker in tongues, with understanding people hearing and understanding equals prophecy.

This mention is not to start a long debate. It is mentioned (just as on the day of Pentecost).
Just so bases are covered.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[Hidden In Him]

It wasn't just some rule for the sake of appearance, it was about God's love for everyone in the congregation not just one Individual in the congregation. God wants all of the congregation built up, especially in love, how can that happen if there is no interpreter?

This paragraph is eloquently put.

Keep in mind that I was just referencing Pentecost as in some ways a Biblical example of stretching the rules a bit if they were to be maintained in the absolute strictest sense, which is the way I see many people post on the subject these days. The more complex situation, however, is the one I presented in my scenario, which I was hoping for more responses to.

So you understand the context, I ADORE receiving revelation from God. It is possibly my greatest joy in life, so imagine a situation where you have just received something from God that brings you greater joy than anything else. My alternatives were as follows:

1. Remain utterly silent, and give no praise to God.
2. Give praise to God in English, but softly.
3. Give praise to God in English, and at full voice as I was desiring to.
4. Give praise to God in tongues, but softly under my breath.
5. Give praise to God in tongues and at full voice, as I ultimately wanted to.

The problem with #1 is that it would have been almost painful. To train oneself not to give praise to God in your greatest moments would truly be a shame.

The problem with #2 and #3 is that this was a personal matter, and the church really didn't need to know what was going on, yet it called for great thanksgivings unto God nonetheless. Moreover, speaking in English is entirely inferior to speaking in tongues when it comes to truly giving thanks to God the right way, and fully expressing what is in the heart. The Spirit can do it MUCH better than we can.

The problems with #4 and #5 are inherent, hence the question posted in the OP. I actually chose option #4, since the worship was going on and I would not be heard by many if any, though I still found it a bit painful not giving Him praise with all my heart at full voice.

There was actually a 6th option I should have considered, and that was going outside into the night air, away from the congregation, and letting it out with everything I had in me, lifting holy hands and thanking Him for speaking to me yet again. Didn't think of it at the time, however.

Thoughts?

Blessings in Christ Jesus, and thanks for the post.

 

[hawkman]

4. Give praise to God in tongues, but softly under my breath.

I have noticed before a message in tongues is given out in a service for the congregation usually there are a few of the the ones that do speak a message time to time are speaking at the same time but not with the loudness and force that a message in tongues from the Holy Spirit has . As soon as a message from the Holy Spirit comes forth all the other tongues cease . Have you noticed this Hidden In Him ? Maybe you are the one the Holy Spirit wants to speak a message to the congregation ?

There was actually a 6th option I should have considered, and that was going outside into the night air, away from the congregation, and letting it out with everything I had in me, lifting holy hands and thanking Him for speaking to me yet again. Didn't think of it at the time, however.

I do pray outside in the dark at home in the spirit sometimes .

 

[hawkman]

This is very different from the tongues that are being spoken by so many people in churches today who are just uttering speech that is unintelligible to any listener. It's no human language at all.

Something to think about here , it could be a language that is no longer spoken by anybody now but was a language spoken in the past .

 

[Hidden In Him]

I have noticed before a message in tongues is given out in a service for the congregation usually there are a few of the the ones that do speak a message time to time are speaking at the same time but not with the loudness and force that a message in tongues from the Holy Spirit has . As soon as a message from the Holy Spirit comes forth all the other tongues cease . Have you noticed this @Hidden In Him ? Maybe you are the one the Holy Spirit wants to speak a message to the congregation ?

I've noticed it as well, especially back in the 80s when I first got born again. But with the incident I was describing, this was just 5 or 6 years ago, and that particular church while Charismatic didn't normally operate in formal messages given in tongues, i.e. with an interpreter. I asked my wife cuz she went more often than I did and still goes to this day, and she said she's seen it take place with them, but only once or twice. Since I'd never seen it I wasn't taking the chance, and I doubt I would now, Lol.

I do pray outside in the dark at home in the spirit sometimes .

Strange thing is, when it comes upon you, you are often in the presence of the brethren, and in the midst of the worship and praise already taking place. So it just seems natural to do so there, but conditions in the church as things are now sometimes force you to do things you wouldn't normally do...

 

[Hidden In Him]

Something to think about here , it could be a language that is no longer spoken by anybody now but was a language spoken in the past .

When I was first baptized in the Holy Spirit, and whenever I have been really, Really caught up, my tongue sounds a lot like violent Vietnamese, LoL. I don't think I've ever seen any Vietnamese people in public in a long time, let alone in a church service, except maybe at an oriental restaurant. So unless the Lord decides to have me go all Pentecost while having dinner out some night, I may be out of luck.

 

[BB1956]

Something to think about here , it could be a language that is no longer spoken by anybody now but was a language spoken in the past .

No I disagree, the True God loves all his people and wants to communicate with all of them, he doesn't just love one person in the congregation and only wants to communicate with only him/her if it's a message that is to build up the whole congregation in love. God wants to built up the whole congregation in love not just that one person who's speaking in tongue. So I disagree God wouldn't speak in a tongue that no human being in the congregation would be able to understand if God is communicating something to build up the whole congregation in love. If it's a message to build up the whole congregation then there would be a person in the congregation who would be able to interpret what the person speaking in a tongue is saying. God knows who's there in the congregation meetings and who isn't. If there is one in the congregation during the meetings who can speak in a tongue and the message is not a message to build up the whole congregation then the one speaking in a tongue should keep quiet during congregation meetings.

 

[eddif]

No I disagree, the True God loves all his people and wants to communicate with all of them, he doesn't just love one person in the congregation and only wants to communicate with only him/her if it's a message that is to build up the whole congregation in love. God wants to built up the whole congregation in love not just that one person who's speaking in tongue. So I disagree God wouldn't speak in a tongue that no human being in the congregation would be able to understand if God is communicating something to build up the whole congregation in love. If it's a message to build up the whole congregation then there would be a person in the congregation who would be able to interpret what the person speaking in a tongue is saying. God knows who's there in the congregation meetings and who isn't. If there is one in the congregation during the meetings who can speak in a tongue and the message is not a message to build up the whole congregation then the one speaking in a tongue should keep quiet during congregation meetings.

It is more complicated.
One person:
1 Corinthians 14:24 kjv
24. But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:
25. And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.

This actually allows privacy for the person receiving the massage. In a tongue the whole congregation does not know the whole story.

Jesus told the lady at the well of here former husbands and the man that was not her husband. In private. Tongues can provide privacy. Today the whole congregation does not have a need to know others private life.
…..,,.,.,

To the one speaking in tongues:
No interpreter. This could be a pfrivate message for the speaker. Speak to God and find out.
………

Whole congregation rules are more what you posted.
……..

There are a lot of ways God speaks. Even on the day of Pentecost you had a diverse crowd hearing in probably groups at the same time?

Our little individual boxes are not always the only way.

In Babylon the tongues message, for the king, was written on the wall.

Mississippi redneck.
eddif.

 

[hawkman]

No I disagree, the True God loves all his people and wants to communicate with all of them, he doesn't just love one person in the congregation and only wants to communicate with only him/her if it's a message that is to build up the whole congregation in love. God wants to built up the whole congregation in love not just that one person who's speaking in tongue. So I disagree God wouldn't speak in a tongue that no human being in the congregation would be able to understand if God is communicating something to build up the whole congregation in love. If it's a message to build up the whole congregation then there would be a person in the congregation who would be able to interpret what the person speaking in a tongue is saying. God knows who's there in the congregation meetings and who isn't. If there is one in the congregation during the meetings who can speak in a tongue and the message is not a message to build up the whole congregation then the one speaking in a tongue should keep quiet during congregation meetings.

When the Holy Spirit does give someone the utterance and they give out a message that is for the congregation it is a supernatural manifestation of the Holy Spirit . And in the same way through a supernatural manifestation of the Holy Spirit the interpreter is given the translation in words in the proper language for the congregation . Neither the speaker or the interpreter know the language . There is the rare occasion when there is someone in the congregation that knows the language being spoken when a message in tongues is being given out .

 

[BB1956]

It is more complicated.
One person:
1 Corinthians 14:24 kjv
24. But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:
25. And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.

This actually allows privacy for the person receiving the massage. In a tongue the whole congregation does not know the whole story.

Jesus told the lady at the well of here former husbands and the man that was not her husband. In private. Tongues can provide privacy. Today the whole congregation does not have a need to know others private life.
…..,,.,.,

To the one speaking in tongues:
No interpreter. This could be a pfrivate message for the speaker. Speak to God and find out.
………

Whole congregation rules are more what you posted.
……..

There are a lot of ways God speaks. Even on the day of Pentecost you had a diverse crowd hearing in probably groups at the same time?

Our little individual boxes are not always the only way.

In Babylon the tongues message, for the king, was written on the wall.

Mississippi redneck.
eddif.

eddif said,
"Jesus told the lady at the well of her former husband and the man that was not her husband. In private. Tongues can provide privacy. Today the whole congregation does not have a need to know others private life.[/Quote\]

First of all Jesus talking to a lady at a well and a congregation meeting are two different things. When the apostle Paul told those who had the gift of tongues to remain quiet, if there was no interpreter, he was talking about in a congregation setting.

Also if you're trying to say that Jesus spoke to the lady at the well in tongues, she being a Samaritan woman who spoke the Samaritan Aramaic language, I disagree that Jesus spoke to her with the gift of tongues. During the time Jesus was on earth it's reasonable to believe that Jesus could speak a form of Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek, because these were the common languages of that time in the area of Israel. The gift of tongues is speaking in a human language that a person has never learned. It's reasonable that while growing up, Jesus learned to speak the Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek languages.

What I'm saying is that I disagree that what you said above has any context of speaking in tongues.

 

[eddif]

eddif said,
"Jesus told the lady at the well of her former husband and the man that was not her husband. In private. Tongues can provide privacy. Today the whole congregation does not have a need to know others private life.[/Quote\]

First of all Jesus talking to a lady at a well and a congregation meeting are two different things. When the apostle Paul told those who had the gift of tongues to remain quiet, if there was no interpreter, he was talking about in a congregation setting.

Also if you're trying to say that Jesus spoke to the lady at the well in tongues, she being a Samaritan woman who spoke the Samaritan Aramaic language, I disagree that Jesus spoke to her with the gift of tongues. During the time Jesus was on earth it's reasonable to believe that Jesus could speak a form of Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek, because these were the common languages of that time in the area of Israel. The gift of tongues is speaking in a human language that a person has never learned. It's reasonable that while growing up, Jesus learned to speak the Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek languages.

What I'm saying is that I disagree that what you said above has any context of speaking in tongues.

Your comments are noted.
eddif

 

[BB1956]

When the Holy Spirit does give someone the utterance and they give out a message that is for the congregation it is a supernatural manifestation of the Holy Spirit . And in the same way through a supernatural manifestation of the Holy Spirit the interpreter is given the translation in words in the proper language for the congregation . Neither the speaker or the interpreter know the language . There is the rare occasion when there is someone in the congregation that knows the language being spoken when a message in tongues is being given out .

I agree that the interpreter didn't learn the language, but that it's God's Holy Spirit, giving the interpreter the gift to interpret what the one speaking in tongues is saying. I never said that the one's speaking in a tongue or the one who interprets didn't receive a gift from the Holy Spirit.