Is Peter the foundation of the church?

[francisdesales]

There were two disciples named Simon. I tend to believe that through out history, Simon Peter has taken a lot of heat, and/ or credit for the things that the other Simon did.

Gabby,

You don't really think that when Paul was writing to the Corinthians and mentioned "Cephas", that he was speaking of Simon the Canannite, who, I believe, never says a word in Scriptures? That is a bit of a stretch. I am not familiar with any Church Father mentioning Simon the Canaanite having the power of the keys, either...

Regards

 

[francisdesales]

Cephas is a name meaning stone as is the name Peter.
The word for Rock is a different word.

I think you are thinking of "lithos". "Petros" means large rock. Consider where this conversation was taking place, Solo. Near a huge rock with a Temple to the Emperor on top of it. Consider the contrast our Lord is making between Caesar and false gods and the new church that Christ was establishing.

Regards

 

[Solo]

Only Roman Catholic dogma teaches that Peter is the Rock upon which Jesus built His church.

Peter is the stone, and the proclamation that Jesus was the Christ is the Rock which was revealed to Peter by God the Father. Jesus Christ is the LORD, and Jesus Christ is the Rock.

15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? 16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. 18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, F32 and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. 20 Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ. Matthew 16:15-20

The Word of God does not contradict itself; therefore anyone who has made the determination that Jesus is not God the Rock is in error, and is bound up in a tradition of men rather than the truth of God.

3 Because I will publish the name of the LORD: ascribe ye greatness unto our God. 4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he. Deuteronomy 32:3-4

Can Peter who denied Jesus three times be the Rock? I hardly think so.

Can any pope be the Rock? Not hardly.

Is Jesus Christ the Rock upon which we should build our house? Yes, definitely!


1 Samuel 2:2
There is none holy as the LORD: for there is none beside thee: neither is there any rock like our God.

2 Samuel 22:2
And he said, The LORD is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer;

2 Samuel 22:32
For who is God, save the LORD? and who is a rock, save our God?

2 Samuel 22:47
The LORD liveth; and blessed be my rock; and exalted be the God of the rock of my salvation.

Psalms 18:2
The LORD is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; my God, my strength, in whom I will trust; my buckler, and the horn of my salvation, and my high tower.

Psalms 18:31
For who is God save the LORD? or who is a rock save our God?

Psalms 18:46
The LORD liveth; and blessed be my rock; and let the God of my salvation be exalted.

Psalms 28:1
Unto thee will I cry, O LORD my rock; be not silent to me: lest, if thou be silent to me, I become like them that go down into the pit.

Psalms 92:15
To shew that the LORD is upright: he is my rock, and there is no unrighteousness in him.

Psalms 94:22
But the LORD is my defence; and my God is the rock of my refuge.

Psalms 95:1
O come, let us sing unto the LORD: let us make a joyful noise to the rock of our salvation.

 

[francisdesales]

Only Roman Catholic dogma teaches that Peter is the Rock upon which Jesus built His church.

Peter is the stone, and the proclamation that Jesus was the Christ is the Rock which was revealed to Peter by God the Father. Jesus Christ is the LORD, and Jesus Christ is the Rock.

You are merely raising a dust cloud to cover the FACT that Simon's name is changed to "ROCK" - and Paul reflects that in his letter to the Corinthians, calling Simon "ROCK", not Jesus Christ. Realize that "rock" is a metaphor and can take on different meanings. It is without doubt that Jesus called Simon "Rock" and that this was a permanent name change. One should meditate on WHY and what it means, not dismissing it without thought....

Regards

 

[Solo]

You are merely raising a dust cloud to cover the FACT that Simon's name is changed to "ROCK" - and Paul reflects that in his letter to the Corinthians, calling Simon "ROCK", not Jesus Christ. Realize that "rock" is a metaphor and can take on different meanings. It is without doubt that Jesus called Simon "Rock" and that this was a permanent name change. One should meditate on WHY and what it means, not dismissing it without thought....

Regards

You can call my points a dust cloud if you like; I prefer to call it the truth trying to open a small hole in your dust cloud so that you can see the truth. Jesus is the Rock of my Salvation just as the Scriptures teach. Peter is a mere sinner saved by grace. Jesus Christ is the Head of the Church, not Peter, not a pope.

You meditate on Peter being the Rock in your dust cloud and I will meditate upon Jesus Christ being the Rock in the light of the Gospel, and in the end we will see who believed the Holy Spirit and who believed a lie.

 

[Imagican]

The ONLY 'group' that 'believes' that Peter IS the 'foundation' of the Church ARE those of a 'particular' sect. I KNOW of NO other denominations that 'believe' this to BE TRUE.

Christ IS the 'foundation' of The Church. There IS no other. And one of the LAST 'persons' that I would choose as a 'foundation' would BE Peter. For Peter PROVED his faith OVER AND OVER AGAIN. His 'faith' was IN HIMSELF. For EACH time that we have example of HIS FAITH, HE FAILED. WHO, OF ALL THE APOSTLES, did Christ direct ALMOST ALL of His rebuke towards? Answer that and it becomes PLAINLY OBVIOUS that this man was ANYTHING BUT the foundation of The Church. Christ even went so far as to 'accuse' Peter of being 'led' BY Satan. Foundation? Peter? Huh? Let us be at least 'a little' serious in this discussion.

Christ IS the HEAD of The Church. NOT PETER or ANY 'man'. And, as offered previous. The ONLY proof of Peter having ANYTHING to do with The Church in Rome is CATHOLIC writtings. The gospels and letters written by Paul speak NOTHING of this PETER being the FORMER of the Church. That there MAY have been 'A' Peter that was one of the 'founders' of the CC is POSSIBLE and quite probable, but that this Peter was THE PETER is QUESTIONALBE at BEST with NO scriptural evidence WHATSOEVER. And when one is faced with the MANY falacies 'taught' by the CC, MOST become 'questionable' AT BEST. They have had a 'knack' for alteration of facts since their inception.

MEC

 

[francisdesales]

The ONLY 'group' that 'believes' that Peter IS the 'foundation' of the Church ARE those of a 'particular' sect. I KNOW of NO other denominations that 'believe' this to BE TRUE.

Peter is the visible foundation upon which Christ, the architect, built His community. One cannot take away this foundation without watching the whole structure eventually collapse. And this is what happens in Protestantism. They fragment into many different branches. Very few of the classical Protestant denominations remain. Part of the reason is because of what they are built upon - private interpretation.

Christ IS the 'foundation' of The Church. There IS no other.

Men share in or participate by virtue of God's free will. We are called to participate as "co-workers" with God, to "participate in the divine nature". Thus, it should not be strange then, that Jesus would also delegate authority to keep His community intact by enabling men to share in His Kingly power?

And one of the LAST 'persons' that I would choose as a 'foundation' would BE Peter.

It doesn't matter what YOU would choose. It only matters that Christ HIMSELF chose Peter, following the will of His Father. That is the problem with your manner of theology. It is utterly dependent upon your own private whims of interpretation, which, as such, are subject to change.

For Peter PROVED his faith OVER AND OVER AGAIN. His 'faith' was IN HIMSELF. For EACH time that we have example of HIS FAITH, HE FAILED. WHO, OF ALL THE APOSTLES, did Christ direct ALMOST ALL of His rebuke towards? Answer that and it becomes PLAINLY OBVIOUS that this man was ANYTHING BUT the foundation of The Church.

The Scriptures say that Peter loved Jesus - and Jesus recognized that Peter loved Jesus "more than these". Peter had great faith in Jesus Christ. He stood by Him during the "strange" teachings of John 6. He actually showed his mettle when he drew a sword to defend Jesus. He walked on water at Jesus' beckoning. Sure, he, and all of us, have moments of faltering faith. But he, unlike Judas, repented and came back to the Lord. Jesus AND the Father in heaven saw something in Simon that they determined to change that man's name to "ROCK". I will accept what God has done. You would be urged to accept it as well.

Christ even went so far as to 'accuse' Peter of being 'led' BY Satan. Foundation? Peter? Huh? Let us be at least 'a little' serious in this discussion.

We are ALL tempted by Satan. Peter had a false idea of what the Messiah was to do. Satan continued to tempt our Lord, this time (refering to Mat 16) through Peter.

The rest is not even worthy of a response...

Regards

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

Gabby,

You don't really think that when Paul was writing to the Corinthians and mentioned "Cephas", that he was speaking of Simon the Canannite, who, I believe, never says a word in Scriptures? That is a bit of a stretch. I am not familiar with any Church Father mentioning Simon the Canaanite having the power of the keys, either...

Regards

I highlighted John 1:42 to point out that Cephas is Peter.

Jhn 1:40 One of the two which heard John [speak], and followed him, was Andrew, Simon Peter's brother.
Jhn 1:41 He first findeth his own brother Simon, and saith unto him, We have found the Messias, which is, being interpreted, the Christ.
Jhn 1:42 And he brought him to Jesus. And when Jesus beheld him, he said, Thou art Simon the son of Jona: thou shalt be called Cephas, which is by interpretation, A stone.

 

[francisdesales]

I finally found something that I liked that Martin Luther wrote...

 

[francisdesales]

I highlighted John 1:42 to point out that Cephas is Peter.

Jhn 1:40 One of the two which heard John [speak], and followed him, was Andrew, Simon Peter's brother.
Jhn 1:41 He first findeth his own brother Simon, and saith unto him, We have found the Messias, which is, being interpreted, the Christ.
Jhn 1:42 And he brought him to Jesus. And when Jesus beheld him, he said, Thou art Simon the son of Jona: thou shalt be called Cephas, which is by interpretation, A stone.

Gabbylittleangel,

Yes, you did. Forgive me, I misunderstood you as saying that Simon Peter took some of the credit for things that Simon the Canaanite did - and thus, doesn't deserve the title "Cephas". But this follow up of yours explains that Simon Peter is Cephas - which means "ROCK". Thus, the Greek Matthew interprets Cephas as "petros", not "lithos".

Thanks

 

[Scotth1960]

There is Catholic doctrine that presents Peter as the foundation of the church. This is simply not true according to the eternal, inherent Word of God.

Jesus told Peter: You are Peter ( the greek word here for Peter is Petros, which means a piece of a rock or something as small as a pebble for a boy's slingshot) and on this rock ( Jesus was pointing to Himself) I will build my church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it ( Matt. 16:18).

The Greek word for rock when Jesus was speaking of Himself is petra, which means bedrock.

Jesus was saying to Peter, You are my little pebble in a boy's slingshot, Petros, but I'm going to build My Church on Myself, because I am the bedrock, the petra.

The idea that the Roman Catholic pope speaks as the voice of God with infallibility because he, as the pope, is an extension of Peter is a terrible twisting of Scripture. Peter is a pebble; Jesus Christ is the bedrock who said, Upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it ( Matt. 16:18).


May God bless, golfjack

Friends, Scripture says in the NT that no other foundation is laid other than Christ Himself. Christ is the True Rock upon which the Church is founded, and Peter is in Christ, Peter, Paul, all the Apostles together, Andrew, John, James, Barnabas, Thomas, etc. are all equal apostles in Christ Jesus. In Erie PA Scott H.
:nod

 

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