[quote:a8530]Can you demonstrate that Mennonite faith system between Pentecost until about A.D. 1000?
Until Constatine legalized the 'church' - Current Mennonite/Anapbaptist practices were the norm. The early church was pacifistic and baptized believers after a profession of faith.[/quote:a8530]
I’m glad you did not state the Constantine began the Catholic Church, as others have claimed!
But your answer falls miserably to the ground, which is actually no answer at all but only your opinion. When I wanted you to “demonstrate†this Mennonite faith, I wanted you to use good documentation, such their writings, artifacts, architectural ruins and frescoes on catacomb walls, etc., such as we can do with the history of the Catholic Church.
[quote:a8530]Indeed! and for the first 1000 years of Christinity there was only one Church! There were no "denominations" of that Church - Until Luther came along and was one of the starters of the so called Protestant Reformation.
Luther's intent was not to create a demonination, but rather reform the Roman Catholic church. [/quote:a8530]
Indeed! But look what happened in his defiance to the Church! Had he not been stubborn, lost his cool and kept with the faith, he could have became a great reformer! Instead and unfortunately, he was finally excommunicated. The Catholic Church has had great reformers who did not leave the faith in their great word, an outstanding example is St. Catherine of Sienna.
[quote:a8530]Guess which one it is in that first 1000 year period! Guess which is the only Church who can historically trace her history back to the very threshold of the apostolic era.
As a member of the Body of Christ, I do not need to trace a history. All I need to know is that I am saved through the Lordship of Jesus Christ (Romans 10:8-11). Having been accepted into the family of God, I am a member of the universal (catholic, if you will) church that has Jesus Christ as it's head. [/quote:a8530]
You will recall my paste-in from what the
Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches, don’t you? But if you are satisfied in being an “incomplete member†of the Catholic Church, I can’t force you to do otherwise. All I can do is to attempt to get you to think. That is all I can do, come, Holy Spirit…
IF, as you say, that Jesus Christ appointed Peter to lead the church - then why are Pope's elected through the ballot process - should they not be appointed by God?
Did you notice the apostles electing a replacement of Judas with a taking of a ballot? If God were to choose to do this, God would do it! So apparently, God is satisfied that the select members of the Church, the College of Cardinals, are the ones who will do the electing, the Holy Spirit doing the “directing.â€Â
[quote:a8530]Which comes exactly from the scripture quotes I gave in my last reply! Now, if your do not believe in the True Presence of Christ in what we call the Holy Eucharist, you cannot be worthy of partaking of it! And in case you are wondering, here is my argument scripturally why the doctrine of Transubstantion is proven in scripture:
http://bellsouthpwp2.net/p/u/putnam_w/John%206.htm
I hope you take the time to click on this link and throughly read what I have to say there.
But William, why are you putting more, than what the Scriptures ouline conditions on partaking of the Lord's Supper? You say that I cannot partake of the Lord's Supper because I do not agree with the Roman Catholic's teaching on it. Agreement with the Roman Catholic position on the Lord's Supper is not a condition to partake according to Scriptures.[/quote:a8530]
Why do I get the impression you did not read the link I provided above? Does not John 6 give you ample proof of what the Holy Eucharist is? If not, then I cannot make you believe it. Since you do not believe in the Catholic Church’s teaching on the Holy Eucharist, then you cannot partake, as that would be blasphemy in our eyes! It is that simple! Incidentally, Orthodox Christians can take communion in a Catholic Church because they believe the same thing! (But unfortunately, the reciprocal is not true - the Orthodox will not allow Catholics to partake of their communion.)
Go to R.C.I.A. classes, be baptized into the Catholic Church (if your are not validly baptized) and you can take communion with us! Of course you would be a Catholic them!
But let's say it is - according to Scripture it is the responsibility of the person to make sure they are partaking 'correctly'. Not the church.
IF I were to partake in an inapporpaite manner - then I would be drinking condemnation upon myself.
And not believing in the True Presence of Jesus (the doctrine of transubstantiation) in the Eucharist is an “inappropriate manner,†sorry!
"While you are proclaiming peace with your lips, be careful to have it even more fully in your heart. " - St. Francis of Assisi
It is interesting that you take the saying here from a great Catholic saint, there is hope for you yet!
God bless,
PAX
Bill+†+
LORD, have mercy on us.
CHRIST, have mercy on us.
LORD, have mercy on us.
CHRIST, hear us.
CHRIST, graciously hear us.
GOD, THE FATHER OF HEAVEN, have mercy on us.
GOD THE SON, REDEEMER OF THE WORLD, have mercy on us.
GOD THE HOLY GHOST, have mercy on us.
HOLY TRINITY, ONE GOD, have mercy on us.
HOLY MARY, pray for us.
HOLY MOTHER OF GOD, pray for us.
HOLY VIRGIN OF VIRGINS, pray for us.
ST. MICHAEL, pray for us.
ST. GABRIEL, pray for us.
ST. RAPHAEL, pray for us.
ALL YE HOLY ANGELS AND ARCHANGELS, pray for us.
ALL YE HOLY ORDERS OF BLESSED SPIRITS, pray for us.
ST. JOHN THE BAPTIST, pray for us.
ST. JOSEPH, pray for us.
ALL YE HOLY PATRIARCHS AND PROPHETS, pray for us.
ST. PETER, pray for us.
ST. PAUL, pray for us.
ST. ANDREW, pray for us.
ST. JAMES, pray for us.
ST. JOHN, pray for us.
ST. THOMAS, pray for us.
ST. JAMES, pray for us.
ST. PHILIP, pray for us.
ST. BARTHOLOMEW, pray for us.
ST. MATTHEW, pray for us.
ST. SIMON, pray for us.
ST. THADDEUS, pray for us.
ST. BARNABAS, pray for us.
ST. LUKE, pray for us.
ST. MARK, pray for us.
ST. PATRICK, pray for us.
ALL YE HOLY APOSTLES AND EVANGELIST, pray for us.
ALL YE HOLY DISCIPLES OF OUR LORD, pray for us.
ALL YE HOLY INNOCENTS, pray for us.
BE MERCIFUL, spare us, O Lord!
BE MERCIFUL, graciously hear us, O Lord!
FROM ALL EVIL, O Lord, deliver us.
FROM ALL SIN, O Lord, deliver us.
FROM THY WRATH, O Lord, deliver us.
FROM A SUDDEN AND UNPROVIDED DEATH, O Lord, deliver us.
FROM THE DECEITS OF THE DEVIL, O Lord, deliver us.
FROM ANGER, HATRED, AND ALL ILL WILL, O Lord, deliver us.
FROM THE SPIRIT OF FORNICATION, O Lord, deliver us.
FROM LIGHTNING AND TEMPEST, O Lord, deliver us.
FROM THE SCOURGE OF EARTHQUAKE, O Lord, deliver us.
FROM PESTILENCE, FAMINE, AND WAR, O Lord, deliver us.
FROM EVERLASTING DEATH, O Lord, deliver us.
THROUGH THE MYSTERY OF THY HOLY INCARNATION, O Lord, Deliver us.
THROUGH THY COMING, O Lord, deliver us.
THROUGH THY NATIVITY, O Lord, deliver us.
THROUGH THY BAPTISM AND HOLY FASTING, O Lord, deliver us.
THROUGH THY CROSS AND PASSION, O Lord, deliver us.
THROUGH THY DEATH AND BURIAL, O Lord, deliver us.
THROUGH THY HOLY RESURRECTION, O Lord, deliver us.
THROUGH THINE ADMIRABLE ASCENSION, O Lord, deliver us.
THROUGH THE COMING OF THE HOLY GHOST, THE PARACLETE, O Lord, deliver us.
IN THE DAY OF JUDGMENT, We Sinners beseech Thee, hear us.
THAT THOU WOULDST SPARE US, We beseech Thee, hear us.
THAT THOU WOULDST PARDON US, We beseech Thee, hear us.
THAT THOU WOULDST VOUCHSAFE TO BRING US TO TRUE PENANCE, We Beseech Thee hear us.
THAT THOU WOULDST VOUCHSAFE TO GOVERN AND PRESERVE THY HOLY CHURCH.... We beseech Thee, hear us.
THAT THOU WOULDST VOUCHSAFE TO PRESERVE OUR APOSTOLIC PRELATE AND ALL ECCLESIASTICAL ORDERS IN HOLY RELIGION. We beseech Thee, hear us.
THAT THOU WOULDST VOUCHSAFE TO HUMBLE THE ENEMIES OF THY HOLY CHURCH, We beseech Thee, hear us.
THAT THOU WOULDST VOUCHSAFE TO GIVE PEACE AND TRUE CONCORD TO CHRISTIAN KINGS AND PRINCES, We beseech Thee, hear us.
THAT THOU WOULDST VOUCHSAFE TO GRANT PEACE AND UNITY TO ALL CHRISTIAN PEOPLE, We beseech Thee, hear us.
THAT THOU WOULDST VOUCHSAFE TO BRING BACK TO THE UNITY OF THE CHURCH ALL THOSE WHO HAVE STRAYED AWAY, AND LEAD TO THE LIGHT OF THE GOSPEL ALL UNBELIEVERS, We beseech Thee, hear us.
THAT THOU WOULDST VOUCHSAFE TO CONFIRM AND PRESERVE US THY HOLY SERVICE, We beseech Thee, hear us.
THAT THOU WOULDST LIFT UP OUR MINDS TO HEAVENLY DESIRES, We beseech Thee, hear us.
THAT THOU WOULDST RENDER ETERNAL BLESSINGS TO ALL OUR BENEFACTORS, We beseech Thee, hear us.
THAT THOU WOULDST DELIVER OUR SOULS AND THOSE OF OUR BRETHREN, RELATIVE, AND BENEFACTORS FROM ETERNAL DAMNATION, We beseech Thee, hear us.
THAT THOU WOULDST VOUCHSAFE TO GIVE AND PRESERVE THE FRUITS OF THE EARTH, We beseech Thee, hear us.
THAT THOU WOULDST VOUCHSAFE TO GIVE ETERNAL REST TO ALL THE FAITHFUL DEPARTED, We beseech Thee, hear us.
THAT THOU WOULDST VOUCHSAFE GRACIOUSLY TO HEAR US, We beseech Thee, hear us.
SON OF GOD, We beseech Thee, hear us.
LAMB OF GOD, WHO TAKEST AWAY THE SINS OF THE WORLD, Spare us, O Lord.
LAMB OF GOD, WHO TAKEST AWAY THE SINS OF THE WORLD, Graciously hear us, O Lord
LAMB OF GOD, WHO TAKEST AWAY THE SINS OF THE WORLD, Have mercy on us.
CHRIST, HEAR US.......
CHRIST, GRACIOUSLY HEAR US.......
LORD, HAVE MERCY ON US.......
CHRIST, HAVE MERCY ON US.......
LORD, HAVE MERCY ON US.......
- The Litany of Saints -
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