[_ Old Earth _] Is physical life possible without physical death

[dad]

Hi Dad,

[quote:d9b78] The universe now we see will pass away, and the new one that appears will not be the same at all. Neither will we, we will be immortal, indestructible. Populating the universe will be a cake walk.

I would think this one thru. If population is allowed to run free without physical death this planet wouldn't provisde habitat for half of the 'life' on it in a very short period of time.

I disagree. God said be fruitful and multiply, why would that be a bad thing? You assume a lot there.

For instance...if you put two pigmy shrews in some indoor football areana, provided food and water and eliminated death from that population, they would bust thru the roof in probably less that a hundred years. Think about it.

[/quote:d9b78]
Not in a merged world. I think a spiritual and physical world is in tune with the will of the creator. This means it is not random chaos. He knows how many of what are needed. There will be more sea when the new heavens appear. This means a lot more room. Add to that the New Jerusalem golden city, I read one estimate somewhere that it could hold billions itself alone! So we have a lot more room soon here to expand. Add to this billions of trillions of stars, and galaxies, etc. Hec, you gotta be kidding? Oh, about the gold city. I heard it could hold about 23 billion people, still leaving a family of five with 125 square acres! Relax. Be fruitful, and multiply.

Jesus' body was gone from the tomb. However, Jesus was God, the rest of us aren't. He was both visible and invisible...we aren't.

Heaven is a place not visible to mortal man. Heaven is the place of eternity. Things eternal are not visible. 2 Cor 4:18.

The term 'spiritual body' in 1 Cor 15 does not mean a very religious body , it means spirit, unseen, eternal, after the earthly and natural-physical heavenly body.

 

[Charlie Hatchett]

(deleted)

oops..I'll butt out..I didn't realize I came right into the middle of a longer

discussion.

My apologies.

Peace

 

[noblej6]

Hi Dad,

Nope, you missed the point. I don't care how much room for expansion you dream up it still overloads in an arithmatic progression. When you have the 23 billion then the population simply expands at a greater rate.

The simple truth is that without death mankind is doomed.

BTW area doesn't come in 'square' acres. An acre is 43,560 square feet, but not necessarily a square area.

noblej6

 

[dad]

Hi Dad,

Nope, you missed the point. I don't care how much room for expansion you dream up it still overloads in an arithmatic progression. When you have the 23 billion then the population simply expands at a greater rate.

The simple truth is that without death mankind is doomed.

So death is our salvation then? Don't think so. First of all, the birth rate in heaven may be less than here. Also, there is infinite room for expansion. never a worry there. It isn't chaotic baby explosions, it is planned parenthood. God plans it. Also, we won't have to eat in heaven. We will eat, if we like, like Jesus did, but we won't have to.
[quote:16d08]
BTW area doesn't come in 'square' acres. An acre is 43,560 square feet, but not necessarily a square area.

[/quote:16d08]
Right, I meant miles. Square miles. And if they prefered, they could have, for the family of five, a mile high skyskraper. with, I think it was nine - 1 acre apartments on each floor!

 

[noblej6]

Hi Dad,

So death is our salvation then? Don't think so. First of all, the birth rate in heaven may be less than here.

Yes, I think we can bank on that one. The birth rate will be less in Heaven,,,,BUT we are talking about a uncontrolled population growth on earth and in the galaxy.

It sure looks big don't it? However, without death it will, without fail, overload.

Go down to your friendly wildlife manager at some park near you and ask him/her how they manage the populations of wildlife. God does it similarily with humans on earth.

noblej6

 

[dad]

Hi Dad,

[quote:fcc9e] So death is our salvation then? Don't think so. First of all, the birth rate in heaven may be less than here.

Yes, I think we can bank on that one. The birth rate will be less in Heaven,,,,BUT we are talking about a uncontrolled population growth on earth and in the galaxy.

In no way, God is in control, and even now babies come from God. There is UNLIMITED room for expansion.

It sure looks big don't it? However, without death it will, without fail, overload.

No, it will not! The population increase under the Hand of God in eternity will be graceful. The earth will hold many billions more when the sea is no more. most of the world is underwater now. New Jerusalem, 1500 miles high holds billions more. There are trillions of galaxies and stars as well, and, they say, more are being born. He said be fruitful and multiply, we will never have the slightest worry there.
I know that when the bible talks about living stones, it means us. But I almost wonder if the New Jerusalem in the new heavens might be built of living stones? Ha. I never heard of transparent gold, it doesn't exist on this earth. If the stones or materials were 'alive' in some way, maybe the city could grow as needed in the future??!! (Not that we need that)

Go down to your friendly wildlife manager at some park near you and ask him/her how they manage the populations of wildlife. God does it similarily with humans on earth.

[/quote:fcc9e]
Jesus said 'Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven'. Things in the world to come will be closely in tune with God's will. If an area is full, unless some wish to expand, or some such, no problems will arise. If animals are not needed, why would He send too many babies? He won't. If they are needed, like we take some to other planets to populate, they will multiply like the dickens, as needed. No chaos, all perfect order, and we have the desires of our heart in that foreverland.

 

[philbo]

What about asexual reproduction (i.e. amoebas and certain sea anemones)? Creatures that reproduce via splitting? It's impossible to distinguish between parent/offspring, thus confusing to determine their age. Do they potentially live forever?

 

[dad]

What about asexual reproduction (i.e. amoebas and certain sea anemones)? Creatures that reproduce via splitting? It's impossible to distinguish between parent/offspring, thus confusing to determine their age. Do they potentially live forever?

I don't see why all things would live forever.

 

[ArtGuy]

What about asexual reproduction (i.e. amoebas and certain sea anemones)? Creatures that reproduce via splitting? It's impossible to distinguish between parent/offspring, thus confusing to determine their age. Do they potentially live forever?

I don't see why all things would live forever.

I thought the existence of death was God's punishment upon his creation for the transgressions of Adam and Eve? If so, then wouldn't death cease to exist in heaven, where everything is perfect?

 

[dad]

What about asexual reproduction (i.e. amoebas and certain sea anemones)? Creatures that reproduce via splitting? It's impossible to distinguish between parent/offspring, thus confusing to determine their age. Do they potentially live forever?

I don't see why all things would live forever.

I thought the existence of death was God's punishment upon his creation for the transgressions of Adam and Eve? If so, then wouldn't death cease to exist in heaven, where everything is perfect?

Maybe you're right. Hard to imagine from a present earth perspective.
I personally don't really consider it a bad thing that a fruit get eaten. Some seem to think that is murder, even though the tree may lve forever!
As for bacteria, etc, who knows? Maybe there is some way that they simply would stay alive, and the whole thing simply work a different way.
I consider that man, and most animals and creatures will live forever. Bacteria, and bugs, and germs, and whatnot will have nice new jobs, by and large, doing good things.
Perhaps the life of some things without 'souls' is not meant to be individually continuous? In other words, say, there will always be grass to feed creatures who live forever, but not the same blades? I hardly think of that as death, rather than 'purpose'.

 

[ArtGuy]

Personally, I think the problem stems from trying to force a view of heaven into the narrow framework of our experience on Earth. Who's to say it will be anything like this? What makes you think there will even be procreation? Or anything physical at all?

Imagining Heaven as essential Earth 2.0 is a big assumption. I don't think it's safe to simply take as given that we're all going to be living in houses and driving cars and raising families in the same way we are now.

 

[dad]

Personally, I think the problem stems from trying to force a view of heaven into the narrow framework of our experience on Earth. Who's to say it will be anything like this? What makes you think there will even be procreation? Or anything physical at all?

Imagining Heaven as essential Earth 2.0 is a big assumption. I don't think it's safe to simply take as given that we're all going to be living in houses and driving cars and raising families in the same way we are now.

Isa 54:8 In a little wrath I hid my face from thee for a moment; but with everlasting kindness will I have mercy on thee, saith the LORD thy Redeemer. 9 For this is as the waters of Noah unto me: for as I have sworn that the waters of Noah should no more go over the earth; so have I sworn that I would not be wroth with thee, nor rebuke thee. 10 For the mountains shall depart, and the hills be removed; but my kindness shall not depart from thee, neither shall the covenant of my peace be removed, saith the LORD that hath mercy on thee.

11 O thou afflicted, tossed with tempest, and not comforted, behold, I will lay thy stones with fair colours, and lay thy foundations with sapphires. 12 And I will make thy windows of agates, and thy gates of carbuncles, and all thy borders of pleasant stones. 13 And all thy children shall be taught of the LORD; and great shall be the peace of thy children.

Isa 65:20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed. 21 And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them.

So, it is much the same. Children. wine, food, women, and song. Etc. Only in immortal, indestructable super bodies that have amazing powers, in a forever golden city where the saved of all ages live. Rivers trees, parks, walking, flying, many mansions, etc.

 

[ArtGuy]

So, it is much the same. Children. wine, food, women, and song. Etc. Only in immortal, indestructable super bodies that have amazing powers, in a forever golden city where the saved of all ages live. Rivers trees, parks, walking, flying, many mansions, etc.

That passage also says that children are going to die. I take this as a fair sign that we shouldn't be taking it too literally. It pretty much just means, "Things in heaven are going to be pretty grand." Like much of the Bible, it isn't meant to be taken word-for-word literally.

But hey, whatever. Doesn't much matter in the long run. The important thing is that Heaven will be pretty posh.

 

[dad]

So, it is much the same. Children. wine, food, women, and song. Etc. Only in immortal, indestructable super bodies that have amazing powers, in a forever golden city where the saved of all ages live. Rivers trees, parks, walking, flying, many mansions, etc.

That passage also says that children are going to die. I take this as a fair sign that we shouldn't be taking it too literally. It pretty much just means, "Things in heaven are going to be pretty grand." Like much of the Bible, it isn't meant to be taken word-for-word literally.

But hey, whatever. Doesn't much matter in the long run. The important thing is that Heaven will be pretty posh.

I didn't want to get too technical, but, I think it is talking about the people on the earth in the millenium. Of course the saved have eternal life, and being a hundred years old or a hundred billion years old matters not. In the millenium, like before the flood, men will have long lifespans (men on the earth, not the saved ones who rule, and live with God). Actually, I'd have to check, it is either the millenium, or the people outside the city on the new earth.