Is Satan actually evil?

[kenan]

Is Satan actually evil, or is he just an angel with a dirty job?

 

[Imagican]

kenan,

when we consider that 'evil' is; 'rebelion against God's will', Satan is certainly a 'rebel'.

MEC

 

[Rick W]

Satan is certainly a 'rebel'.

Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Isaiah 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
Isaiah 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.


Evil? Satan?
I think there may be evidence to that idea, yes.

 

[cyberjosh]

Is Satan actually evil, or is he just an angel with a dirty job?

You mean the one who "was a murderer from the beginning and does not stand in the truth....for he is a liar, and the father of lies" (John 8:44). No, most certainly he is evil. Also Satan is not God's puppet, "for what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness, or what fellowship has light with darkness? Or what harmony has Christ with Belial, or what has a believer in common with an unbeliever?" (2 Corinthians 6:14-15) - Belial being a reference to Satan. A house divided against itself cannot stand and God has no harmony with Satan.

You could easily turn the question around on humans and beg the question, "Are we humans really sinful, or just men and women created with no choice but to do wrong things?" and thus beg God's Sovereignty over man, and perhaps even take a Calvinist view that God condemns some straight from the womb to hell forever. What is most often overlooked is that God's Sovereignty is also tempered with mercy and also wisdom, and because of this he allows us freewill, which can have positive and negative effects. Satan is truely and really evil, just as man from birth is truely sinful and must be redeemed from the evil nature of the flesh, lest we resemble Satan and be judged by God as being "of [our] father the devil" (John 8:44) and be condemned with his evil works as well.

God Bless,

~Josh

 

[Orion]

Satan is certainly a 'rebel'.

Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Isaiah 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
Isaiah 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.


Evil? Satan?
I think there may be evidence to that idea, yes.

Aren't we supposed to "be like Jesus"? How is "I will be LIKE the most high" a bad thing then?

cyber said, "was a murderer from the beginning...." But wouldn't that mean that God specifically created Satan to BE a murderer, then? Satan would, in effect, BE serving God the way God created Satan to BE, . . . . . in fact, DOING God's will!

We marvel at a being who can be "completely perfect and holy at all times with no fault". I find it even MORE amazing that there would be a being who would be "ALL evil with nothing good inside". Seems more like the polar oposite dichotomy that could only be thought up by humans. "Absolute good verses absolute evil".

You know, after all, . . . . .we DO need a scapegoat.

Finally, "exault myself above the STARS OF GOD" is yet another example of early man's misunderstanding of the natural world/universe, . . . thinking that the stars were "just right up there". . .

 

[cyberjosh]

Aren't we supposed to "be like Jesus"? How is "I will be LIKE the most high" a bad thing then?

It wasn't that type of motivation however. He already was like the Most High in the sense you seem to mean, he was one of the cheif Angels and no doubt had great splendor. Those verses Potluck quotes show Satan's ambitions to be equal with God and exalt his own throne, a selfish motive.

cyber said, "was a murderer from the beginning...." But wouldn't that mean that God specifically created Satan to BE a murderer, then? Satan would, in effect, BE serving God the way God created Satan to BE, . . . . . in fact, DOING God's will!

To a degree you have to be reasonable with such a statement to understand context. It was merely meant to express that Satan was diabolical since the beginning of, primarily, our own creation. Murder is a human trait and you have to have humans (and more than one obviously) first before it can be murder, and in this context this means that ever since mankind has been around Satan has enticed men to murderous acts, such as with Cain. Jesus may very well have actually had Cain in mind when he said that. Also our earliest mentions about Satan from Jesus speak of when he saw him "fall from heaven like lightening" once again showing the scene already set with Earth created. Just try to understand the comments in the context of what Jesus was saying.

We marvel at a being who can be "completely perfect and holy at all times with no fault". I find it even MORE amazing that there would be a being who would be "ALL evil with nothing good inside". Seems more like the polar oposite dichotomy that could only be thought up by humans. "Absolute good verses absolute evil".

The problem is that the spiritual realm, and therefore spiritual truths, are not taken into account. We have grey areas, and even ammoral actions we can commit that are fairly meaningless such as opening a car door, or making a sandwich, things with are primarily not good nor evil. Yet in the spiritual realm you choose one of two sides in your disposition and actions, and I'll be darned if Satan ever occupied his time making a sandwich rather than plotting against God and His saints. If God is truely omnipotent, omniscient, all-holy, all-glorious, and all-righteous then truely anything opposed to God must be wholly opposed and hostile to God, no half & half with milk and cream. But once again, most people do not believe (and therefore cannot concieve of) spiritual beings therefore cannot begin to comprehend the idea of spiritual realities and truth.

You know, after all, . . . . .we DO need a scapegoat.

You know, it was a comedian named Flip Wilson - not the Bible - who said, "The Devil made me do it." We are to blame, and as such we must die to atone for our own sins. Since this inevitably leads to every created human's eternal death God sent Jesus to be the goat (as symbolized in the OT) that bore the sins of the people, so that He may crucify our flesh yet make us alive in the Spirit. So we as Christians are actually are all martyrs for our faith (beleif), we died when we beleived, to our flesh (sin nature - not physical body) in which (and here is something 100% evil - which you couldn't seem to comprehend Satan could even be) Paul clearly says, "I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh" (Romans 7:18), repeat nothing good. We actually, since we have died to sin and been made alive in Christ, when we do sin have a scapegoat that we blame: the flesh, while equally it is our fault for deciding to succumb to it. I am more quick to blame my flesh than the devil when I sin (as the source of the evil - though wholly my decision), and I think most people would be better off for it if they realize that the problem begins with their own sinful flesh - then they can be in position to resist Satan better, knowing his devices.

Finally, "exault myself above the STARS OF GOD" is yet another example of early man's misunderstanding of the natural world/universe, . . . thinking that the stars were "just right up there". . .

You would be hard-pressed to prove that. They knew the stars were distant, and the Bible as an exaltation to God - and presenting no small view of God - says that he measured the stars and the heavens with the span of his hand: a truely amazing statement.

~Josh

 

[Vic C.]

It wasn't that type of motivation however. He already was like the Most High in the sense you seem to mean, he was one of the chief Angels and no doubt had great splendor. Those verses Vic quotes show Satan's ambitions to be equal with God and exalt his own throne, a selfish motive.

:o Me no quote verses. Me just saw this thread. 8-)

 

[cyberjosh]

It wasn't that type of motivation however. He already was like the Most High in the sense you seem to mean, he was one of the chief Angels and no doubt had great splendor. Those verses Vic quotes show Satan's ambitions to be equal with God and exalt his own throne, a selfish motive.

:o Me no quote verses. Me just saw this thread. 8-)

LOL. Whoops. I meant Potluck. One of you yo-yos said it. ;) :P

P.S. Did you see my reply to you in the Mod Section thread "Am I loosing it?". :

 

[Orion]

Seems like, through your responses, . . . . .maybe there really isn't a "Satan" at all, but that character is the analogy of us, as humans, and how we can be. I've yet to see anything that would cause me to believe in the existance of Satan, except for these occurances that are just as easily explained by "our own human flesh".

It makes no sense for any being to "be like satan". There is no motive, nor reward.

 

[Vic C.]

... LOL. Whoops. I meant Potluck. One of you yo-yos said it. ;) :P

Yes, Rick, Vic, it's an easy mistake. 8-)

P.S. Did you see my reply to you in the Mod Section thread "Am I loosing it?". :

Yup... and I'm still waiting for the banana! :fadein:

 

[cyberjosh]

It seems like, through your responses, . . . . .maybe there really isn't a "Satan" at all, but that character is the analogy of us, as humans, and how we can be. I've yet to see anything that would cause me to believe in the existance of Satan, except for these occurances that are just as easily explained by "our own human flesh".

Do not misunderstand me, I did not mean to show the fault of the flesh to the exclusion of the tempter, who entices us to sin. But our succumbing to those evil desires is a work of the flesh. The best verse I know of in the Bible that captures both aspects of this is James 1:14 which says, "Each man sins when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed." This shows the the lust of the flesh (lust is mentioned in connection with the flesh numerous times in the Bible) making us suceptible so that we are drawn away (often from good sense and reason - but especially from God) to a place where we can then be enticed, the enticing is Satan's field of play. He tried unsucessfully to tempt Jesus in the desert, even with so simple a thing as hunger. The idea that the flesh provides a stepping stone for Satan to interfere in our life is clear from the Bible.

"Do not let the sun go down on your anger, and do not give the devil an opportunity". (Ephesians 4:26-27)

That verse also shows how anger can give place to sin, because the devil who was "a murderer from the beginning" can take anger and turn it murderous. I believe this is what Jesus had in mind when he said that anyone who said to his brother "raca" would be in danger of hell fire, because 'raca' was the Aramaic word for fool - someone devoid of knowledge [of God] and such a claim was tantamount to hating the person and certainly of disowning them, perhaps even with murderous intent.

Also:

"Put on the full armor of God, so that you will be able to stand firm against the schemes of the devil". (Ephesians 6:11)

"Submit therefore to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you." (James 4:7)

Satan can indeed entice us if we give him "an opportunity", but that is why we must stand firm and resist his temptations.

It makes no sense for any being to "be like satan". There is no motive, nor reward.

Except that evil is seductive and deceptive. Most of the time evil is appealing to the flesh for example, else we would sin less.

~Josh

 

[kenan]

I'm sort of going with Orion here. Didn't Satan pretty much ask permission from Yahweh to terrorize Job in the Book of Job? And are angels actually capable of free will?

I think that Satan is evil, but he is evil because Yahweh created him to be evil; Yahweh created Satan to test us in this life and see if we would do good or evil deeds.

 

[Orion]

Who was the tempter of Satan?

If he did all of it on his own, then why do you believe that WE need to have some "outside force" tempting us?

 

[kenan]

That question was a little difficult to understand, but here's what I have to say. Yahweh created Satan as a tempter for us; we could go the way of our Lord, or the way of Satan. I guess it's just a good way to separate the good from the bad. If there was no Satan, no one would be tempted to do anything bad.

Also, like I said, are angels actually capable of free will?

 

[stranger]

kenan wrote:

That question was a little difficult to understand, but here's what I have to say. Yahweh created Satan as a tempter for us; we could go the way of our Lord, or the way of Satan. I guess it's just a good way to separate the good from the bad. If there was no Satan, no one would be tempted to do anything bad.

Also, like I said, are angels actually capable of free will?

Hi kenan,

Interesting topic. . . here are some thoughts

Satan and demons are said to be without repentence which means they cannot and will not truly repent. So it is not possible for them to be saved. Hence, their destiny is the abyss.

It seems that at one point the being that is now Satan exercised his will to choose that which had never been chosen before - as many have said to rebel. . . This does not mean he is able to choose good having once chosen to do evil.

Would Adam's sin explain what is wrong with humanity?

 

[Orion]

Okay, hold on. Are we being "tempted by demons" or are we just tempting ourselves, out of our own lusts/desires/greeds/etc.?

 

[freeway]

Is Satan actually evil, or is he just an angel with a dirty job?

Is Satan evil, as he has and axe to grind........YES

Is Satan evil, as to doing the dirty work of God.............NO you can just blame Satan himself for his predicament..

 

[handy]

Okay, hold on. Are we being "tempted by demons" or are we just tempting ourselves, out of our own lusts/desires/greeds/etc.?

It can be both. Not a "either one or the other" deal.

 

[cyberjosh]

Okay, hold on. Are we being "tempted by demons" or are we just tempting ourselves, out of our own lusts/desires/greeds/etc.?

It can be both. Not a "either one or the other" deal.

I agree with Handy. Satan and demons most certainly are by and large responsible for enticing us and temping us to do evil things (which we always have the choice to resist, as Jesus did), but what I think is more often overlooked (as I said) is the temptation that the flesh can offer of itself from its own built-in evil desires that we are all born with. Without going into specifics, in the past I have found myself repeating a certain sin habitually, and after a while Satan almost didn't have to tempt me, because habit led to automatic and rash action on my part. Don't try to set up a dualistic view of it, because both are sources of evil, but in the end its still our decision to follow what the Bible calls the "lust of the flesh" or to resist it.

~Josh

 

[GraceBwithU]

Seems like, through your responses, . . . . .maybe there really isn't a "Satan" at all, but that character is the analogy of us, as humans, and how we can be. I've yet to see anything that would cause me to believe in the existance of Satan, except for these occurances that are just as easily explained by "our own human flesh".

It makes no sense for any being to "be like Satan". There is no motive, nor reward.

I'm sure you have heard this quote..."the greatest trick Satan ever pulled...was to convince some poor soul that he did not exist.

Eph 6:10-12
Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.
11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
KJV

Hum...was Paul blowing smoke and writing these words for no reason. Perhaps he was simply delusional. :D